The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - Part 155

[ThePhantasm]

I am. That's why I wouldn't call Skyfall a poor TDK imitator if someone asked me such a question. I'd just day a particular sequence in it is similar to it. Not just say the movie's name which is the answer you'd give if you meant the entire movie.

Why on earth would anyone think the entire movie was ripped from TDK? Why would you assume anyone would think that?

I mean, at the very least you could have asked for clarification. But you assume the worst and respond in a patronizing manner.

This is the problem. You automatically assume that everyone you talk to on these boards is an idiot. And you'd rather wrangle over words and whether someone said something in a manner that comports with your standards than discuss two films that we mutually enjoy.

But I'm sure its my fault that you jumped to an absurd conclusion rather than conversing like a normal person with goodwill and charity.

I'm done.

 

[The Joker]

Why on earth would anyone think the entire movie was ripped from TDK? Why would you assume anyone would think that?

Because that is the answer you gave to that very question. To quote what you said to me; DUH!

There are people who have opinions like that. For example look at that link Shauner posted (no offense meant to you Shauner) of the so called visual parallels to TDK and Skyfall.

I mean, at the very least you could have asked for clarification.

I didn't need any clarification. Your answer was not hard to understand. You needed to make some if you were referring to something specific.

This is the problem. You automatically assume that everyone you talk to on these boards is an idiot.

So you think you can read my mind now?

I don't talk to anyone like that, let alone everyone, and to suggest I do is both ridiculous and laughable. If I talked to everyone like that, I'd never have made it past 2003 here. I sure wouldn't have befriended over 100 members either.

And you'd rather wrangle over words and whether someone said something in a manner that comports with your standards than discuss two films that we mutually enjoy.

What are you talking about? We are discussing something YOU said. Not me. You started this whole poor TDK imitator discussion. Isn't that so typical, someone complaining about a discussion they started. If you want to talk about something else then nobody is stopping you.

Make a pleasant change from your usual sarcasm, and gifs.

But I'm sure its my fault that you jumped to an absurd conclusion rather than conversing like a normal person with goodwill and charity.

Yes, it's my fault that I took your one word answer for what it was. It's clearly such a good way to illustrate a specific answer. If anyone ever asks me what movie is bad, I'll just say TDKR, even though I only really mean a handful of specific scenes in it and not the whole movie. I'm sure they'll get that though. That's how everyone answers specifics for a movie like that. They just say the movie name.

 

[shauner111]

The only legit ones are the Silva/Joker capture/escape ones.

The others one are clutching so tightly on straws that their fingers must ache. I mean really ones like Bond standing on a rooftop, driving his Aston Martin, kissing a woman, taking a drink, wrecking his vehicle, a building blowing up, helicopters in the air, a ship sailing in the sea etc are all things you can find in countless other Bond movies.

I would say it's a big possibility that the ship sailing shot and the building blowing up (right after M receives a Joker-esque message on her computer) were influenced by TDK. That's what i think anyway.

The rest is rubbish, i agree. The Joker/Silva comparisons are huge. Most of what we see with Silva is a rip-off of Joker. But Bardem is so entertaining that it almost didn't matter to me. Still. I also remember thinking "Two-Face" as soon as he revealed his "true face".

 

[The Joker]

I would say it's a big possibility that the ship sailing shot and the building blowing up (right after M receives a Joker-esque message on her computer) were influenced by TDK. That's what i think anyway.

It's possible I suppose. Nolan's style and cinematography are fantastic. I mean Brad Bird was influenced by Nolan's use of IMAX in TDK for the MI movie he directed a couple of years ago; http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/...rabia-inspired-mi-4-look.html#~pp2Oi8JeFu4ztL

I actually had no idea that the MI movies had been influenced by TDK until someone put it on Facebook today.

The rest is rubbish, i agree. The Joker/Silva comparisons are huge. Most of what we see with Silva is a rip-off of Joker. But Bardem is so entertaining that it almost didn't matter to me. Still. I also remember thinking "Two-Face" as soon as he revealed his "true face".

Well I wouldn't say most of Silva was. Certainly not enough to call him a Joker rip off. I mean his whole back story, the personal vendetta against M etc didn't feel Joker-esque. The whole deliberate capture and escape sequence felt most Joker-like to me. Which was blatantly influenced by TDK. It stands out it's so unique. One could say his more theatrical nature might be Joker influenced, but then Bond villains are generally theatrical. It's something I'm glad they seem to be bringing back.

I don't really think that true face part was meant to be a Two Face reference. I mean Bond movies have a long history of villains with physical deformities. Dr No had metal hands. Blofeld had a scarred face in YOLT. Tee Hee had a metal arm because he lost his to an alligator. Zao had diamonds embedded in his face in DAD. Elektra was missing half her ear in TWINE. Stromberg had webbed fingers in TSWLM. Largo was missing an eye in Thunderball etc.

 

[shauner111]

I dont think it was referencing Two-Face either now that i think of it. But my mind went straight to Dent probably because i was already noticing TDK moments in the first half.

Silva was a very different character and Bardem never tried to imitate Heath's little quirks. But it was Mendes who had him dress up with the hat/suit or coming out of the fire. I remember that scene from the trailer and immediately thinking of Joker because of the outline of his hair and the fire behind him. The capture/escape was the obvious parallel. Something Avengers, Star Trek and Bond copied from Nolan, even though Chris didn't invent it. It was a big thing in 2008 and beyond. There's no doubt all three directors (Whedon, Abrams, Mendes) liked the idea so they used it for their bad guy too.

One more thing. This may not have been intentional, but i remember sitting in the theater during Skyfall when Bond jumps and holds on for dear life on that elevator. The music in that scene felt like Zimmer's Batman. Could be a coincidence but im not so sure.

 

[The Joker]

You know I totally forgot Star Trek and Avengers had a villain doing the deliberate capture and escape bit, too. I guess Ledger's Joker really did make it the cool thing to do.

I just love how Nolan's TDK trilogy has branched out in influence to CBM and non CBM genres. It's a testament to how brilliant they are. Even now, if you take what Snyder says as truth, the whole future of the DCCU is the legacy of the Nolan Batman movies;

“If it was a Batman movie it would be a much more difficult proposition because of how good Chris' movies are. We live in gratitude to those movies. Chris set a tone for the DC Universe, and separated us from Marvel in a great way. We are the legacy of those movies.”

http://www.batman-on-film.com/BvS_news_ZSnyder-talks-BvS-Batman-solo-DCCU_EMPIRE_7-29-15.html


It reminds me of what Margot Robbie said about the Suicide Squad movie. Even though it's an ensemble ass kicking team movie akin to The Avengers, she said it is more like The Dark Knight than Avengers;

http://screencrush.com/suicide-squad-margot-robbie-dark-knight/

 

[titansupes]

One more thing. This may not have been intentional, but i remember sitting in the theater during Skyfall when Bond jumps and holds on for dear life on that elevator. The music in that scene felt like Zimmer's Batman. Could be a coincidence but im not so sure.

I was with a group of four or five people when we saw Skyfall, and when that moment happened we all turned to each other and mouthed "Batman..."

After the movie we talked about the TDK influences a lot.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Silva didn't give me Two Face vibes, the other villain played by Javier did though, Anton Chigurh.

Sugar. What a great villain.

 

[Filmfreak]

Honestly I too thought there were quite a few similarities between Skyfall and TDK trilogy almost as much as I thought there were similarities between Casino Royaly and Batman Begins. Mendes himself said that Nolan's work inspired him to take on the Bond franchise so I don't think it's a coincidence that they have some common themes and a similar tone. Having said that by no means do I think it's a rip-off, it happens all the time with directors to be inspired by other directors' work, it's just that sometimes it's a bit more apparent. But there's nothing wrong with that. There were many movies that tried to copy the Nolan formula and failed miserably. Skyfall is not one of them.

 

[shauner111]

Not as much in Casino Royale. I can't even remember the similarities, other than the idea to make Bond grittier and do a soft reboot.

 

[Filmfreak]

Well it wasn't just a soft reboot, it was an origin story. One which we hadn't really seen before in either a Bond or a Batman movie and one that had a much darker and grittier tone than each previous installment that had been considered huge critical failures and the most "cheesy" and "cartoony" entries in each franchise. Also they both dug really deep into the main character's psychosynthesis and tried to make him more vulnerable and approachable to the audience by explaining why he bacame the character we know and love by the end of each movie. Again something that hadn't been done before.

I always look the current iteration of Bond as being inspired mostly by the Bourne movies in terms of this whole new approach to the spy genre and secondly by Batman Begins regarding the similar formula that they followed. Well, I mean every "dark and gritty reboot" we see nowadays is basically based on BB's success.

But yeah plotwise or in terms of movie structure, I agree, Skyfall has more similarities to TDKT than Casino Royale does, but like I said there's nothing wrong with being inspired by something or someone as long as the director has his own vision to present.

 

[shauner111]

It's still a soft reboot if Judi Dench is playing M and you have references to past Bond movies and cars. That's how i look at it.

It wasn't that deep of a origin story. For the franchise, sure, but they never went deep into his origins in Casino Royale.

 

[ThePhantasm]

 

[The Joker]

Kind of off topic, but Hugh Jackman thinks Tom Hardy should be the next Wolverine;

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2015/09/24/hugh-jackman-thinks-tom-hardy-should-be-the-next-wolverine

 

[shauner111]

Tom Hardy for everything.

 

[Guts]

Dark Knight Rises alternate opening.

Spoiler

 

[NoLaNitE007]

Kind of off topic, but Hugh Jackman thinks Tom Hardy should be the next Wolverine;

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2015/09/24/hugh-jackman-thinks-tom-hardy-should-be-the-next-wolverine

The Fire Rises huh?

 

[NoLaNitE007]

Just was thinking about this film last two days and it was a heckuva film with tons of ambition and symbolism galore regarding the socio economic times of today.

Yes, it has some flaws...but what film doesn't?

 

[NoLaNitE007]

You know I totally forgot Star Trek and Avengers had a villain doing the deliberate capture and escape bit, too. I guess Ledger's Joker really did make it the cool thing to do.

I just love how Nolan's TDK trilogy has branched out in influence to CBM and non CBM genres. It's a testament to how brilliant they are. Even now, if you take what Snyder says as truth, the whole future of the DCCU is the legacy of the Nolan Batman movies;

“If it was a Batman movie it would be a much more difficult proposition because of how good Chris' movies are. We live in gratitude to those movies. Chris set a tone for the DC Universe, and separated us from Marvel in a great way. We are the legacy of those movies.”



http://www.batman-on-film.com/BvS_news_ZSnyder-talks-BvS-Batman-solo-DCCU_EMPIRE_7-29-15.html

Yup...Yup! t:

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Nolan's Batman predates the MCU. So it was Marvel that set a tone that differentiated themselves from Nolan, rather than the other way around.

 

[The Joker]

He's saying they are basing the tone of their movies on Nolan's Batman movies. Hence Nolan gave them a tone that separates them from the MCU.

 

[Decepticonus]

LMAO, that was amazing.

 

[Brother Jack]

Kind of off topic, but Hugh Jackman thinks Tom Hardy should be the next Wolverine;

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2015/09/24/hugh-jackman-thinks-tom-hardy-should-be-the-next-wolverine

I think they should just give Wolverine a rest for a while. There is a myriad of great X-Men characters to explore. It kind of defeats the whole thing about teamwork and community when everything revolves around one character (who's not even much of a team player).

 

[Panthro]

I think they should just give Wolverine a rest for a while. There is a myriad of great X-Men characters to explore. It kind of defeats the whole thing about teamwork and community when everything revolves around one character (who's not even much of a team player).

They should but they won't - just as WB will probably never give Batman a rest for a while. They see him as the money character that puts audiences in seats so they'll just go on milking him for all he's worth and beyond. And that's not getting into how they can only hold on to the X-rights by churning an X-Movie out every couple of years.

 

[The Joker]

With Batman, he's pretty much the only CBM character WB are able to garner proper success with, and by proper I mean critically, financially, and with fans and audiences. So it's not a surprise they don't give him a rest. Even have him bulldoze into Superman's franchise for the sequel, name in the title and all so it will draw in audiences, since they haven't been able to make Superman a proper success (or indeed give him a good movie) since 1980. Not to mention they're using the tone from Batman's TDK trilogy, too. Something they're not shy about admitting since Snyder is always saying it in interviews.

Fox should know better with Wolverine. First Class proved a Wolverine free X-Men movie (minus his hilarious 5 second cameo) can be both great and successful. I hope Apocalypse will be the same.