The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - Part 155

[The Joker]

No. Full trailer coming Dec 2.

So they gave a teaser today and now a trailer on Wednesday?

What do you want to see?

Something that looks interesting and good.

 

[BatLobster]

So they gave a teaser today and now a trailer on Wednesday?

It's just the latest example of this annoying "teaser for a trailer" trend. I'm thinking what we saw might be opening moments of the trailer.

 

[batfreakforever]

It's just the latest example of this annoying "teaser for a trailer" trend. I'm thinking what we saw might be opening moments of the trailer.

It teased us. It did its job. Thats just your excitement for the film getting the best of you. Any snippet we get is great.

 

[batfreakforever]

So they gave a teaser today and now a trailer on Wednesday?



Something that looks interesting and good.

You have some interesting things to say and discuss but you come across as someone who is very hard to please.I know that you were disappointed with Arkham Knight, DK rises but BvS isn't even out and you come across as you already hate it by what you have seen. It might be great. Your a very passionate fan with is fantastic I think your too hash on these products and on your own wants and needs for a product/film. If your were to make Batman v Superman what type of story would you tell?

 

[The Joker]

It's just the latest example of this annoying "teaser for a trailer" trend. I'm thinking what we saw might be opening moments of the trailer.

That's exactly what it felt like. A piece of a trailer.

You have some interesting things to say and discuss but you come across as someone who is very hard to please.I know that you were disappointed with Arkham Knight, DK rises

A lot of people were disappointed with those, and with good reason. It's not about being hard to please, it's about having standards.

Also being disappointed in something also doesn't equate to disliking it. We don't live in a reality where you either love or hate something, and there's no in between.

but BvS isn't even out and you come across as you already hate it by what you have seen.

Then you haven't seen anything I've said, because not one post of mine said I hate it, or even remotely implies I hate it. I said I have not been impressed or found anything interesting or exciting about the trailers, or any of the footage and info we've gotten about the movie.

Where do you get hate from that?

It might be great. Your a very passionate fan with is fantastic I think your too hash on these products and on your own wants and needs for a product/film.

Conversely I could say you're too easily pleased or impressed.

Not to mention your post history is littered with you lashing out and complaining about people disliking things that you like;

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=26788429&postcount=184

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=26788357&postcount=128

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=31767533&postcount=635

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32263991&postcount=533

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32109971&postcount=421

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32411291&postcount=365

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32390161&postcount=328

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32384983&postcount=315

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32520049&postcount=569

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=32520299&highlight=#post32520299

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=31767221&postcount=964

If your were to make Batman v Superman what type of story would you tell?

I've no idea. The only good Batman vs Superman story I've ever seen, if you could call it that as it was only one part of the overall story, was The Dark Knight Returns.

 

[The Shape]

Looks like the trend of me not loving what I'm seeing from Affleck in clips continues.

I know you're not crazy about Affleck in this role or the film in general, but I will say that I'm surprised at some of the criticisms you're coming up with. For instance...

I can't put my finger on it, but I just keep detecting vanity in the bits we're shown.

What? I don't think I've ever heard anyone say this about any actor in a superhero role before.

He is trying really hard, and it shows.

Good. He should be trying hard, and it seems his "trying really hard" is helping to win over the fanbase and might make for a great and memorable performance. It's certainly a better option than to have him phoning it in.

With Bale/Keaton, there was a sincerity. No trace of vanity.

Again, I can't help but think that whatever you mean by this is kinda BS and grasping at straws to find something to pick on.

Affleck, to me, at the moment feels like he'll be more in the vein of Kilmer and Clooney. It's just that visually he's so close, that it almost makes up for it. And I thought Kilmer and Clooney were decent Bruce Waynes , for what it's worth. Just not anywhere near my favorites.

How you could draw the conclusion that Affleck will be in the same vein as Kilmer and Clooney from this....

...and the other tiny bits we've seen is completely beyond me.

Normally, I agree with much of what you have to say and when it comes to your ambivalence towards Snyder and BvS, I can usually understand where you're coming from and feel that you're being reasonable. But I think that, as you seemingly admitted, your preconceived notions of Affleck are preventing you from seeing anything of him from this film without bias.

Still love ya, tho.

 

[shauner111]

You dont understand the difference between "looking like you're trying hard" and just "doing it with ease" Shape, so it seems. There's a fine line between noticing that the actor is "acting" and just being the character.

The more i watch the past trailers and now this teaser, yeah, it looks like a spoof almost. Like Ben is always in rage mode with his face. As Bruce (like i said the bat-look was good).

But maybe it's because we're seeing it out of context, so it looks silly to me. Ill blame it on the cuts so far, that way i go into March with a clear head for Affleck.

 

[The Shape]

You dont understand the difference between "looking like you're trying hard" and just "doing it with ease" Shape, so it seems.

I completely understand the difference, but I don't feel that these comments that Affleck is "trying too hard" in every glimpse we've seen are honestly valid, especially when I see who these comments are coming from.

For some folks like yourself, it seems Affleck is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I liked it. I think you can take that final reveal for Bruce, his expression, in both ways. Trying reallly hard or great acting. It;s all about context, and what comes after.

You said this, and elsewhere I saw that you said this facial expression of his was a "10/10". Now you're saying it's silly and like a spoof, so which is it?

There's a fine line between noticing that the actor is "acting" and just being the character.

Oh, please. Now you're just being silly. I love Christian Bale and have been one of his most vocal supporters on these boards over the past 10 years. I've never once put him down as an actor in TDKT or anything else, but I'm not going to pretend as if he magically, completely disappeared into the roles of Bruce Wayne and Batman in every scene of TDKT to the point where I could never tell he was acting.

This is the perfect illustration of how unfair some of the complaints and criticisms levied towards Affleck have been by the vocal minority, in this case. Bale essentially gets a pass from some of you guys on things like the "Where is the trigger?" scene and others, but meanwhile, the split second, out-of-context glimpses of Affleck's facial expressions are quickly deemed to be him overacting, trying to hard, trying to look sexy, etc.

I find it a little surprising, to be honest.

But maybe it's because we're seeing it out of context, so it looks silly to me. Ill blame it on the cuts so far, that way i go into March with a clear head for Affleck.

I sincerely hope you're able to enjoy the movie and that Affleck's performance impresses you, as I sincerely hope it impresses me. But I have a sneaking suspicion that there's not much Ben could do to sway your opinion, especially with the ridiculously high standards you seem to have for this role.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Good. He should be trying hard, and it seems his "trying really hard" is helping to win over the fanbase and might make for a great and memorable performance. It's certainly a better option than to have him phoning it in.

I think he by trying too hard he means 'tryhard', not trying hard to please the fanbase.

How you could draw the conclusion that Affleck will be in the same vein as Kilmer and Clooney from this....

I dunno about Kilmer or Clooney, but that shot is very overdramatic. He is panting like his lungs are on fire the moment his cowl is taken away even though a moment before he was relatively calm. Cavil is also over the top with his cartoon scowl. But since that scene is heightened for purposes of it being most likely a nightmare, it's an outlier.

 

[The Shape]

I think he by trying too hard he means 'tryhard', not trying hard to please the fanbase.

Yes, thank you.

I dunno about Kilmer or Clooney, but that shot is very overdramatic. He is panting like his lungs are on fire the moment his cowl is taken away even though a moment before he was relatively calm. Cavil is also over the top with his cartoon scowl. But since that scene is heightened for purposes of it being most likely a nightmare, it's an outlier.

The entire scene is "overdramatic" because, as you said, it is a nightmare of what seems to be Bruce's greatest fear realized. Regardless, something being dramatic or heightened does not automatically equate to over-acting or trying too hard., especially when the context is considered. If Affleck was looking like this during a Wayne Enterprises board meeting, then of course, it would be ridiculous over-acting and completely out of place. But it's a little difference when you factor in the fact that we're seeing Bruce captured, unmasked, and at the moment of his own death after an evil Superman has seemingly wiped out much of the human race. (A piece of that scene between Superman walking up to him and then unmasking him could also be missing from the footage that was released)

I have little doubt that if Affleck wasn't intensely scowling and breathing in that shot (as the scene seems to demand), the criticisms would then be that he isn't showing enough emotion or something. As I said, for some people I feel he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Meanwhile, the same people would likely say that the facial expression from the actor in this scene is raw, real, and perfect:

 

[shauner111]

You are aware that you can watch a clip more than once and an opinion could change right? I do like his facial expression, if it plays out well enough in the scene. But watching it now as it is, it's like every single shot of him is pure anger face. I already told Batlobster that it could be the way they're cutting the trailers, only choosing those shots. But if not, then it feels like Affleck is just overdoing it, being told by Snyder over and over that it's an older, angrier version. So he shakes and gets all raged up in every scene. I hope that's not the case, but all we have to go on right now is clips we're given.

Not everybody has to like it just because it's new you know..

It especially looks funny when Cavill is always so serious and angry at the same time. Like Tacit said, Ben is panting his lungs out as soon as his mask comes off, even though he's super calm and just curious right before that shot. Could be the editing, wtf do i know??

You and others in different threads need to stop bringing up "Bale wasn't very subtle as Batman"...i am NOT talking about Bale as Bats. Im only talking about Bruce Wayne without the mask.

If people would start complaining that he's not showing enough emotion because he wasn't panting when Supes takes the cowl off...then they don't know anything about acting. I've come to the conclusion that some are genuinely excited for this. They like his acting so far. And a LOT are biting the heads off of people like me who are a bit mixed, only because it's brand new and Ben LOOKS like the character from the comics. Batlobster and Joker don't seem to like it at all, but im just mixed on it. All three of us are probably getting laughed at. Yet im laughing at how hard everyones ***** gets just when they see a single shot of Ben in a suit. Im past the little kid stage where i lose my mind over a visual of Batman, just because he looks like the comic. I care more about the rest that goes into a performance. And right now, im mixed on Ben. The face he makes when he sees the newspaper, the falling building, mask ripped off, seeing his suit in the cave, all pissed off beyond belief. Only a couple of those work for me, the other half...not so much.

 

[BatLobster]

@Shape, my man...just a couple of things.

What? I don't think I've ever heard anyone say this about any actor in a superhero role before.

I know that seems like a random comment, but it's honestly what I feel. It's actually a "Nolanism" I picked up years back. Here's Nolan on Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain:

Nothing in that performance is done from vanity, nothing is done to open out the character to the audience and yet it works. I think that was a very bold choice for that.

I think it's basically just a fancy way of saying subtlety. To me that's director-speak being basically that "vanity"= an actor trying extra hard to get "their stuff in" with a more broad, showy performance. There is of course, a level of vanity that goes hand in hand with all actors. These are people who play in front of a camera for a living, after all. Of course the great ones make you forget that. It occurred to me that it's probably the exact word I was looking for in regards to how I've been struck some of the bits I've seen of Affleck. Shauner made the fair point of saying it could just be the cumulative effect of the promotion using lots of these types of shots. It's definitely possible, and I hope he's right.

But I think that, as you seemingly admitted, your preconceived notions of Affleck are preventing you from seeing anything of him from this film without bias.

And to be fair, the exact same thing could be said of you and anyone that has already made up their mind about how undeniably awesome Ben is going to be. We're all bringing baggage into this, positive or negative. It's very, very subjective. I tend to think of myself as more on the fence than negative though. I've been making sure to note any positive thoughts I have too.

Mind you, none of these criticisms amount to me saying this is going to be a horrible performance. Far from it. On the whole of it, I think Affleck will do a competent job on a technical level, at the very least. He'll hit all the beats. I'm just waiting to see that extra something that makes me go, "YES. Now I see it!". And hell, that something could be in the new trailer tomorrow. I'll all too happy to eat crow when I'm converted. I swear! I love having my doubts proven wrong. There can be great joy in that.

I have little doubt that if Affleck wasn't intensely scowling and breathing in that shot (as the scene seems to demand), the criticisms would then be that he isn't showing enough emotion or something. As I said, for some people I feel he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I'm pretty sure if that shot was dialed back from a 10 to like an 7 or 8, I would've liked it a lot more. I almost would've preferred a more stone cold, "do your worst, you son of a b****" kind of scowl. Affleck is straight "I HATE YOU!!!!" there. Of course that may also have not made the most exciting trailer moment then. And I get that context of the nightmare could very well make it play better. I guess ultimately I should reserve judgment, but sometimes I feel like if other people are going to prematurely fangasm over it, I might as well get some of my doubts off my chest too.

Oh, and as for that shot of Finn...yup, he's overracting. He's been over the top in a lot of the shots we've seen. However, I kind of like that way, because to me cheesy acting is one of the hallmarks of Star Wars (yes the Original Trilogy too). I'm actually worried that JJ is going to make the acting too good, since he's such an actor's director. t:

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I have little doubt that if Affleck wasn't intensely scowling and breathing in that shot (as the scene seems to demand), the criticisms would then be that he isn't showing enough emotion or something. As I said, for some people I feel he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I dunno how that shot demands heavy breathing. In the previous shot Batman is calm. Is he afraid? Yes. But he isn't pissing his pants. In the next shot when his cowl is being removed he looks like he ran a marathon. Maybe that would be a natural reaction for someone else, but for Batman, a seasoned crime fighter who has been captured and interrogated many times, that seems like an overreaction.

Now, given that this is likely a unconscious vision, it doesn't have to make sense. But given the circumstances above, I can see why someone (like Shauner or Batlobster) would raise a brow.

And how do you know that Shauner or Batlobster would criticize Affleck for not showing enough emotion if he was all reserved? Maybe if he was wooden or something and it warranted it. But automatically assuming that people are looking to be hypocrites is playing the victim prematurely, not to mention attacking those posters' character.

Meanwhile, the same people would likely say that the facial expression from the actor in this scene is raw, real, and perfect:

How do you know it's the same people? Do you have any proof that they are? Do you have any proof that people who love Finn's overreaction hate Ben's overreaction? Or is this another one of your imagined victim complex?

As for that picture, it was one of the most criticized shots of the first teaser. A lot of people complained about Finn being way over the too. A lot more people than Ben's situation.

You and others in different threads need to stop bringing up "Bale wasn't very subtle as Batman"...i am NOT talking about Bale as Bats. Im only talking about Bruce Wayne without the mask.

Bale's voice wasn't subtle. But inflections of his eyes to convey complex emotions were layered with many subtleties. Not that I expect the merry, devoted monks of the BvS boards to pick it up.

All three of us are probably getting laughed at

You are getting laughed at by the biggest laughingstocks of superherohype. Enjoy the irony. They won't.

 

[The Shape]

I know that seems like a random comment, but it's honestly what I feel. It's actually a "Nolanism" I picked up years back. Here's Nolan on Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain:

I think it's basically just a fancy way of saying subtlety. To me that's director-speak being basically that "vanity"= an actor trying extra hard to get "their stuff in" with a more broad, showy performance. There is of course, a level of vanity that goes hand in hand with all actors. These are people who play in front of a camera for a living, after all. Of course the great ones make you forget that. It occurred to me that it's probably the exact word I was looking for in regards to how I've been struck some of the bits I've seen of Affleck. Shauner made the fair point of saying it could just be the cumulative effect of the promotion using lots of these types of shots. It's definitely possible, and I hope he's right.

I wish I could get behind what you're saying, but I feel that bringing up Nolan's thoughts on Heath's Brokeback Mountain performance doesn't help your case, nor does it make for anything close to an apples-to-apples comparison. Brokeback Mountain is a realistic drama that depicted the raw, complex and sexual relationship between two men. This is a superhero film that depicts the conflict between a human vigilante and a super-powered alien being.

Due to the extreme difference in subject matter and size/scope, along with the nature of these films, any lead performance is destined to be more broad and showy than other smaller, more emotional and realistic films. For instance, Christian Bale undoubtedly and naturally delivered more showy and broad performances in the TDKT both as Bruce and Batman than he has in other films like Out of the Furnace.

And to be fair, the exact same thing could be said of you and anyone that has already made up their mind about how undeniably awesome Ben is going to be. We're all bringing baggage into this, positive or negative. It's very, very subjective. I tend to think of myself as more on the fence than negative though. I've been making sure to note any positive thoughts I have too.

To be truly fair, I wouldn't qualify myself as someone who has completely made my mind up about this film or Affleck's performance...because I haven't seen the film or enough footage to make the claim of him being incredible. However, nothing that I've seen from him or the film has turned me off it it, and if anything, I've been impressed so far. I admit that I am genuinely excited for the film and looking forward to it, unlike some. I'm also able to give credit where credit is due.

I'm not one to jump down the throats of anyone voicing a negative opinion, and there are plenty of times that I choose to stay mum -- usually when I feel people are making reasonable criticisms or conclusions and I can see where they're coming from (or when someone's clearly trolling). For instance, criticisms of Snyder's past films like MOS, too much CGI, too gloomy, etc. But when I see comments that I feel are a little silly, off-base, unreasonable, or even clearly biased, I sometimes choose to jump in and offer my two cents or call them out.

I did it for years while defending some of the ridiculous and often illogical criticisms/nitpicks of TDKR, and I now find myself defending split second glimpses of Affleck's face against claims of "over-acting" or "trying too hard", lol.

Oh, and as for that shot of Finn...yup, he's overracting. He's been over the top in a lot of the shots we've seen. However, I kind of like that way, because to me cheesy acting is one of the hallmarks of Star Wars (yes the Original Trilogy too). I'm actually worried that JJ is going to make the acting too good, since he's such an actor's director. t:

And here's somewhere else where our opinions differ, because when context is considered, I would not consider that shot of Finn to be over-acting at all. The dude just crash-landed his ship on a desert planet and yanked off his hot helmet. How would you react in that scenario? What should he look like that wouldn't be considered over-acting?

I can ask the same questions of Affleck's expression in the nightmare footage. It's criticisms like these that make me feel like the term "over-acting" is being thrown out too loosely and inappropriately, especially now when we're talking about mini-glimpses of actors faces in out-of-context trailer shots. It's like the new "overrated".

 

[Guts]

 

[The Shape]

 

[shauner111]

Sooo good.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Someone is holding a gun behind Cavil's back at the lower right pic.

 

[Guts]

It's the ghost from Three Men and a Baby.

 

[BH/HHH]

I could have sworn this was a thread for Dark Knight Rises

 

[Tacit Ronin]

No it isn't. This thread has been a general lounge for the past two years. There is nothing to talk about TDKR anymore. All the arguments have been exhausted. Nobody will budge from their views. So we talk about general crap. The mods leave us alone.

 

[The Joker]

To be fair, BH/HHH, you've participated in these sort of discussions before here;

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32441553&postcount=455
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32510299&postcount=506
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32510957&postcount=509
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32513847&postcount=519
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32513971&postcount=522

It does no harm. At least people are still talking about Batman/DC related movie stuff.

 

[Travesty]

Soooo.....

 

[BH/HHH]

I really wish I'd ended it with the sarcasm smilie, I was been sarcastic guys

 

[Tacit Ronin]

To be fair, BH/HHH, you've participated in these sort of discussions before here;

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32441553&postcount=455
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32510299&postcount=506
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32510957&postcount=509
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32513847&postcount=519
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32513971&postcount=522

It does no harm. At least people are still talking about Batman/DC related movie stuff.

Funny he didn't raise the same question when we were discussing Civil War a few pages ago.