The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

[Gothamsknight]

I need these!

 

[Dede]

I never thought out of everything that the pandemic gave us that making bane more iconic would be one of them

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

 

[Brother Jack]

For me it might still be Nolan's most emotionally resonant movie (it and Interstellar). Bruce's arc is integral to that. At its heart, the trilogy is really a character study, and I'm not sure that it gets enough credit for that. As big as the story is, it only works because its grounded in the humanity of its titular character.

 

[hellblazer103]

For me it might still be Nolan's most emotionally resonant movie (it and Interstellar). Bruce's arc is integral to that. At its heart, the trilogy is really a character study, and I'm not sure that it gets enough credit for that. As big as the story is, it only works because its grounded in the humanity of its titular character.

He goes to hell and back in this, and it's truly triumphant.

A lot of people get mad at the idea of Bruce being intent on retiring so much, but the way I see it is this ; I feel that for Batman in general, the one thing he secretly wants the most but won't often admit to is family. Funny enough, the Lego Batman movie touches on this quite well. If he didn't have the option of finding happiness with Rachel (then Selina), I'm sure he wouldn't have been so intent on retiring. It's worth noting that he was willing not to even become Batman if he could marry Andrea in MOTP, which the same people who'd criticize Bale would probably praise up and down.

 

[BatLobster]

Thanks for sharing those tweets @BaelaTargaryen . People have written some pretty beautiful things about the movie.

I think part of Rises' power is in that it does ultimately choose to tell more of hopeful story, even when it could've arguably gotten away with a more tragic end and gotten "cool" points for doing so. A lot of people thought death was the logical conclusion for a realistic version of the mythos. But the trick is, the hope doesn't come easy. It puts Bruce and Gotham through hell first, and the movie is extremely bleak for most of its runtime before hope finally starts to dawn.

It's a movie that I honestly think is good for the soul, as corny as that may sound. People don't flock to these movies just for spectacle or to watch Batman punch the bad guys (though of course that too). We want to be uplifted. We want to feel some affirmation that we can overcome whatever demons we may face, be it individually or collectively. I think that's something Nolan really took to heart, while being unafraid to explore some pretty dark themes throughout the trilogy. It was never dark n' gritty for the sake of dark 'n gritty. Something I never felt as confident in saying about Snyder's take on these characters.

 

[antsman41]

Only because of Batman Begins and TDK built a beautifully tragic and heartfelt foundation that TDKRises harkened on... don’t get me wrong, I love those moments. But, they truly just homaging, replaying, or mirroring huge emotional character moments for Bruce from the previous two films.

None of those actually touch the actual moments.

Like Bruce sitting in his chair after Rachel’s death. Gordon consoling Bruce after his parent’s murder. Bruce knowing that he has to sacrifice Batman for Harvey. Bruce getting saved by his dad from the cave.

The closest TDKRises got to those moments was with Alfred laying it all out on the table and quitting Bruce’s suicide mission.

 

[Kane52630]

Plus TDKR had editing issues that hurt the pacing and the story.

 

[Awest66]

Whenever people praise Rises, Theres always someone around the corner trying to take em down a peg.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Bruce rising out of that pit is the very definition of a chill inducing moment. A complete culmination of Bruces journey from Batman Begins to The Dark Knight Rises.

 

[Frodo]

My feelings on Rises are still mixed after 8 years. I think it gets more right than wrong, and ultimately, I'm satisfied where the film ends.

Its alot of the stuff in between that always makes it problematic for me at least. I think its biggest issue is that its just overwritten . There were lots of ideas and concepts that were interesting, but ultimately I think its could have benefited from streamlined in terms of ideas , subplots, and characters.

But then again, Hardy is great as Bane, Bale gives another great performance, and Hathaway is a great Catwoman.

The first Batman and Bane fight is classic, The idea of Bane breaking Bruce emotionally, Physically, mentally, financially, is great as a means of challenging our hero on every level. I also really like the idea of Bane basically bull dozing his way through every obstacle until he finally breaks the spirit of the Bat ,and the Spirit of Gotham.

But then again, after the breaking of the bat and the ceiling off of Gotham , the film sort of looses steam for me and never really rises, pardon the pun , to that high of the sewer fight , even with all the chaos afterwards.

So for me, the film is still a mixed bag, but its still one of the better Batman films, even with its weaknesses.

 

[shauner111]

They all have their issues. Rises its pacing, editing. I will never argue against how emotionally satisfying it is. There have been moments where I feel like I’m alone in championing that side of the movie.

Memento is cold. Following is cold. Insomnia is cold. Parts of TDK are cold. Most of Inception is cold. But he has about 5 to 6 movies that are absolutely NOT cold. He is not David Fincher or Stanley Kubrick.

Rises makes me tear up and Interstellar has warmth radiating throughout. His most emotional film yet. “Found him technically impressive but cold”. That’s a bit funny to me because yes, his aerial sequences are always impressive but outside of that, for the most part? I’m more impressed by how he can bring emotion into an otherwise plotty, sometimes overly scientific mess. Conceptually he and his brother impress me but technique wise, as a filmmaker Nolan doesn’t impress me too much. A chunk of his films have some of the worst writing and editing I’ve seen, coming from such a popular/worshipped director. The way he stages a fight sequence is beyond sloppy. The way he shoots coverage is horrendous. His handheld scenes are rough. He spends too little time on set, moving on to the next scene way too quick which causes most of his problems in the editing room. And his sense for cutting a film...well, I think he needs somebody else in there with him to make different decisions.

Nolan’s strengths are: his brilliant mind for pushing a story or plot idea passed where other Hollywood directors are willing to go. The foundation of his ideas are very original. He’s a studio’s dream to work with because he’s always under budget, understands how to cast the right actors in lead roles (with tremendous career timing). Chris strives for authenticity with chases, explosions, anything that has to do with a potential magical cinematic moment involving a vehicle or an exhilarating “fall/drop” with a character. And that makes us invested in his style of action. It’s now an attraction. Rises features a lot of these things in full swing, plus the heart/emotion already built in from the previous two Batman movies (as well as the built in history of the character which works in his favour. Our history with the character affects us when Bruce finally overcomes his demons). However, Nolan’s weaknesses are also there in full swing in TDKR. Plotty exposition and holes in the writing. Major editing issues. Like people said in this thread, the movie drops out once Bruce is thrown into the pit and focuses on brand new side characters a little bit too much (Blake, Selina) instead of letting us spend time with the main protagonist (Bruce) and antagonist (Bane, Talia).

It’s too long but it’s not long enough. That has to do with how the script was executed, editing of course and where the focus is. It also could have been even more emotional if Bale didn’t use his voice at the wrong times (his alley goodbye to Catwoman, his goodbye to Gordon). Maybe that’s why some don’t have the same emotional reaction as us to TDKR. They can’t get passed the plot holes for starters and then they’re laughing when they shouldn’t instead of connecting to the arc and resolution when the time comes.

Either way, Rises is a “beautiful mess”. And I see a lot of his movies like that. Tenet looks like it’s going to be brilliant but cold. We’ll see if some youtubers double down on the “Nolan is cold” accusation this summer. But Rises isn’t that for me, I tell you, I still cry everytime Bruce sees Alfred with the pounding drums and swells. Even after rolling my eyes with some of the second & third act choices. That’s Chris’ magic trick. Disguising his films’ flaws by finishing his movie with a bang that makes you almost forget the problems you had beforehand.

 

[Dede]

They all have their issues. Rises its pacing, editing. I will never argue against how emotionally satisfying it is. There have been moments where I feel like I’m alone in championing that side of the movie.

Memento is cold. Following is cold. Insomnia is cold. Parts of TDK are cold. Most of Inception is cold. But he has about 5 to 6 movies that are absolutely NOT cold. He is not David Fincher or Stanley Kubrick.

Rises makes me tear up and Interstellar has warmth radiating throughout. His most emotional film yet. “Found him technically impressive but cold”. That’s a bit funny to me because yes, his aerial sequences are always impressive but outside of that, for the most part? I’m more impressed by how he can bring emotion into an otherwise plotty, sometimes overly scientific mess. Conceptually he and his brother impress me but technique wise, as a filmmaker Nolan doesn’t impress me too much. A chunk of his films have some of the worst writing and editing I’ve seen, coming from such a popular/worshipped director. The way he stages a fight sequence is beyond sloppy. The way he shoots coverage is horrendous. His handheld scenes are rough. He spends too little time on set, moving on to the next scene way too quick which causes most of his problems in the editing room. And his sense for cutting a film...well, I think he needs somebody else in there with him to make different decisions.

Nolan’s strengths are: his brilliant mind for pushing a story or plot idea passed where other Hollywood directors are willing to go. The foundation of his ideas are very original. He’s a studio’s dream to work with because he’s always under budget, understands how to cast the right actors in lead roles (with tremendous career timing). Chris strives for authenticity with chases, explosions, anything that has to do with a potential magical cinematic moment involving a vehicle or an exhilarating “fall/drop” with a character. And that makes us invested in his style of action. It’s now an attraction. Rises features a lot of these things in full swing, plus the heart/emotion already built in from the previous two Batman movies (as well as the built in history of the character which works in his favour. Our history with the character affects us when Bruce finally overcomes his demons). However, Nolan’s weaknesses are also there in full swing in TDKR. Plotty exposition and holes in the writing. Major editing issues. Like people said in this thread, the movie drops out once Bruce is thrown into the pit and focuses on brand new side characters a little bit too much (Blake, Selina) instead of letting us spend time with the main protagonist (Bruce) and antagonist (Bane, Talia).

It’s too long but it’s not long enough. That has to do with how the script was executed, editing of course and where the focus is. It also could have been even more emotional if Bale didn’t use his voice at the wrong times (his alley goodbye to Catwoman, his goodbye to Gordon). Maybe that’s why some don’t have the same emotional reaction as us to TDKR. They can’t get passed the plot holes for starters and then they’re laughing when they shouldn’t instead of connecting to the arc and resolution when the time comes.

Either way, Rises is a “beautiful mess”. And I see a lot of his movies like that. Tenet looks like it’s going to be brilliant but cold. We’ll see if some youtubers double down on the “Nolan is cold” accusation this summer. But Rises isn’t that for me, I tell you, I still cry everytime Bruce sees Alfred with the pounding drums and swells. Even after rolling my eyes with some of the second & third act choices. That’s Chris’ magic trick. Disguising his films’ flaws by finishing his movie with a bang that makes you almost forget the problems you had beforehand.

Your not alone feeling emotional about tdkr. I’ve seen and heard that people cried a lot at it probably endgame levels. Every time the Talia reveal or pit escape or ending I just breakdown. It’s the only movie that has multiple parts that can do that To me . So would describe rises as a flawed masterpiece then? That’s what I interpret beautiful mess to be

 

[Dede]

Whenever people praise Rises, Theres always someone around the corner trying to take em down a peg.

It’s true but I’ve just learned to except that tdkr is one of the few movies that’s Vastly largely loved and liked But has loud detractors. Which is okay anybody can not like the movie they can even hate it but they don’t form the consensus

 

[Frodo]

It’s true but I’ve just learned to except that tdkr is one of the few movies that’s Vastly largely loved and liked But has loud detractors. Which is okay anybody can not like the movie they can even hate it but they don’t form the consensus

Even then though, its seems to me that most of the debate over the film is whether its okay to whether its great.

I think the idea that the film gets that much hate is overblown really.

The debates over the film have never gotten anywhere close to those over MOS, BvS, or TLJ.

If anything , its been more akin to divides over Batman Returns.

Now ,to be fair, i've seen alot of fanboy freak outs and divisions over geek cinema , so my standards for what qualifies as hate may be higher.

That said, I think it just seems worse because the other two films are pretty universally praised by fandom while Rises has had relatively more debate and disagreement among fans by comparison.

If the debate is really between the film being great or okay/disappointing at worse , then the film is doing pretty well imo.

 

[Herofan]

The first Batman and Bane fight is classic, The idea of Bane breaking Bruce emotionally, Physically, mentally, financially, is great as a means of challenging our hero on every level. I also really like the idea of Bane basically bull dozing his way through every obstacle until he finally breaks the spirit of the Bat ,and the Spirit of Gotham.

The fight was good, well-done but with Batman having retired for a long time and just recently coming back and Bruce probably having a death wish, in its context it felt disappointing compared to what it could have been, like Batman lost and almost defeated himself more than that Bane really beat him.

 

[Dede]

Even then though, its seems to me that most of the debate over the film is whether its okay to whether its great.

I think the idea that the film gets that much hate is overblown really.

The debates over the film have never gotten anywhere close to those over MOS, BvS, or TLJ.

If anything , its been more akin to divides over Batman Returns.

Now ,to be fair, i've seen alot of fanboy freak outs and divisions over geek cinema , so my standards for what qualifies as hate may be higher.

That said, I think it just seems worse because the other two films are pretty universally praised by fandom while Rises has had relatively more debate and disagreement among fans by comparison.

If the debate is really between the film being great or okay/disappointing at worse , then the film is doing pretty well imo.

I agree with your post but I would Say tdkr isn't loved any less then begins by fans. On here the polls actually lean towards tdkr. I think the debate is over which is 2nd to dark knight not which is worse at least that’s what it seems to me. All 3 are beloved by fans. I’ll look for the polls I was talking about there somewhere here deep in the archives of this forum

 

[Man in the Suit]

Art by Dan Hipp:

 

[The Joker]

^ That's awesome.

 

[Dede]

I would buy that art

 

[Kane52630]

The extras.... It just keeps getting worse the more you stare at it.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Art by Dan Hipp:

This is fantastic

 

[BatLobster]

I'd still take some goofy extras and pulled punches that I'd never notice in a million years without gifs, for a real human scale in a final battle over the green screen, CGI-fests we've grown accustomed to. I managed to make it down to Wall St. to watch filming for that back in winter 2011 and it was a pretty unforgettable moment to witness. Never seen anything on that scale before or since on a films that have shot in the city.

Sad and scary that the real thing seems to be happening in NYC now...

 

[BatLobster]

Gosh...I spoke too soon...

Protestor Takes to the Street Dressed as Batman

What a truly bizarre hellscape we've found ourselves in. I liked that image much better when it was just a movie.

 

[Jones81]

The extras.... It just keeps getting worse the more you stare at it.

A lot of people point this out and I honestly don’t care. The visual of having that many extras on screen allows me to overlook any problems with improvised fight scenes.