The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

[JackWhite]

Seeing this in IMAX; summer 2012 for the first time:

Darn straight TDKR has the best cinematography in the trilogy.

 

[Gothamsknight]

all 3 movies, for me, are the best looking comic book films ever and some of the best of their time in general. Wally Pfisters work is still umatched in every way, in my opinion.

 

[shauner111]

Pfister was topped this year.

Cinematography also includes camera movement, so Wally wasn’t even the winner when TDK trilogy was happening. The guys to beat IMO were Dariusz Wolski and Chung chung-hoon.

 

[shauner111]

So, it’s been over a month since the Batman has been out. It will on the Maxipad soon. I mean, I really liked it the first time I saw it, but looking back, it’s not very memorable is it. The movie hasn’t stayed with me. It’s a solid film. Nothing really fundamentally wrong with it. But at the end of the day, it’s just a sleeker and sexier version of the Nolan films. It feels like a movie that should’ve come out in 2008. It feels quaint.

Couldn’t disagree more. It’s my favourite movie from the genre and nothing like Nolan’s movies. Ordered my 4K copy. Will probably revisit it multiple times a year.

 

[Gothamsknight]

For me, The Batman is a good movie, but it's lasting impact on me is fairly tame and it's becoming more apparent to me as time goes on. It came and went pretty quickly, and I'm barely even thinking about the sequel right now. Starting to wonder if the only thing future Batman adaptions will have that is different is style. I've rewatched the movie multiple times, and I don't get what exactly the lesson is to be learned from it that we haven't already learned in past versions?

 

[The Joker]

I think it really comes down to personal preferences more than anything else. How much enjoyment did you personally derive from it. Even if something is well made it doesn't mean its going to strike a chord or stay with you. Conversely something may not be very well made but you can still get a lot of enjoyment from it regardless. And it can stay with you because you always enjoy the hell out of it every time you watch it.

For example Avengers Endgame is definitely a better movie than say Batman Returns. But I would rather watch Returns any day over Endgame because its much more entertaining to me.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I think it really comes down to personal preferences more than anything else. How much enjoyment did you personally derive from it. Even if something is well made it doesn't mean its going to strike a chord or stay with you. Conversely something may not be very well made but you can still get a lot of enjoyment from it regardless. And it can stay with you because you always enjoy the hell out of it every time you watch it.

For example Avengers Endgame is definitely a better movie than say Batman Returns. But I would rather watch Returns any day over Endgame because its much more entertaining to me.

Well said. I, myself, enjoy Batman Returns more too


I think that's where I'm at with The Batman. It's a superbly made movie, but it's not a Batman movie that has impacted me as much as Nolan or even Burton for that matter. It's a strange thing, but I guess it just happens as you get older too. I'm just not as emotionally drawn into The Batman as I was in the past unfortunately. A great movie, but not peak Batman in my opinion. Still, I'm very curious where Reeves will go with the sequel and I'll be here for it.

I also think I'm having trouble separating the eras of which each film had an impact on me from one another. The Batman came out at a pretty dark time in my life, so I, unfortunately, feel like that's gonna cloud my judgment of the movie for some time to come. Unfairly, I might add.

 

[Rick190293]

With me, it's the opposite: I'm enjoying TB even more, with each new view. I'm appreciating more what Reeves was trying to give, a slower, more personal approach to Batman, and I can't wait to see how it evolves. I also realized that Nolan trilogy will always be the peak Batman for me, so there's no pressure to label The Batman, or any other version, as the ''best ever'' thing, just enjoy it the way it is.

 

[Gothamsknight]

With me, it's the opposite: I'm enjoying TB even more, with each new view. I'm appreciating more what Reeves was trying to give, a slower, more personal approach to Batman, and I can't wait to see how it evolves. I also realized that Nolan trilogy will always be the peak Batman for me, so there's no pressure to label The Batman, or any other version, as the ''best ever'' thing, just enjoy it the way it is.

This is actually what I've been trying to do myself. I do find myself enjoying it a lot on repeat viewings, so going in with that mindset certainly helps. I think I have to keep working on keeping "personal" feelings aside with the iterations of Batman going forward and just try to enjoy what's there.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I missed the emotional core that Batman Begins has for Bruce. That is a very emotional story, and in many ways the opposite of The Batman's handling of the character. With TB It feels a bit like they Dark Knight'd the first movie, skipping the main bits of the origin where you connect with the character in a big way.

That's not to say that there isn't character work in TB, there is but it's implied rather than directly shown most of the time. However the stuff with Alfred really didn't work for me because we barely know him before we are asked to care that he almost died.

The Selina stuff was great though. We actually spend time with her so the big moment where Bats saves her from killing Falcone does land.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm just not as emotionally drawn into The Batman as I was in the past unfortunately.

I completely relate to this and feel the same.

However the stuff with Alfred really didn't work for me because we barely know him before we are asked to care that he almost died.

I was gonna say that about the Alfred hospital scene. On first watch, it kind of got me in the feels a bit, but on subsequent viewings that has subsided. And I've realized that I think what had actually hit me in the first place was mainly nostalgia for the Bale/Caine relationship, their chemistry and how wonderfully that was developed over the movies. I was glad that the movie at least attempting to tap into some of that and center itself on Bruce/Alfred. But yeah, because the movie itself portrays their relationship in such an icy way up to that point and really limited Alfred's presence, it can't help but feel like it's leaning on your knowledge of previous Batman stories and asking you to remember that for this moment. Which I don't entirely mind honestly, but it does feel like a bit of a weakness in the storytelling of this movie considering how much of the narrative hinges on that moment.

Of course, there's still room to build on this foundation and I'm sure they will, but yeah-- just something to be said about building the groundwork via an origin film. This movie was damned if it did, damned if it didn't in that sense. I definitely didn't want/need another origin story. I think what they settled on was sort of a "coming of age" story with a more established Batman.

 

[Brother Jack]

I don't think you need to do the origin to create an emotional connection. For me the lack of emotional connection had to do with Reeves' and Pattinson's approach to Bruce, which felt so repressed and grey and interior that I struggled to connect to him on a human level and it made his arc not really work that well in my opinion. It's not that I wanted him to smile more or something. It's just that there are so many different tones that work with Batman and I think interpretations thrive when they can successfully balance multiple colors. I was expecting him to be angrier honestly. But I understand where they were coming from with those creative decisions and I don't want to knock them per se. I just don't think it was for me.

My relationship with TB has so far been kind of strange because on paper I should be head over heels in love with it. A rain-soaked, gritty, noir detective story modeled after Fincher's Se7en is exactly the kind of Batman movie I've always wanted. And it is an impeccably well crafted piece of work. I love a lot of it truly but I can't shake the feeling of overfamiliarity, like so much of it I've seen before in other Batman films or cape flicks in general. Outside of some aspects a lot of it felt rote, redundant, like it wasn't moving the needle forward. That combined with the storytelling issues it has has softened my enthusiasm for it. But having said all that I am glad Reeves is in charge of the franchise now and I'm eager to explore his Gotham through the sequels and tie-in shows.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I don't think you need to do the origin to create an emotional connection. For me the lack of emotional connection had to do with Reeves' and Pattinson's approach to Bruce, which felt so repressed and grey and interior that I struggled to connect to him on a human level and it made his arc not really work that well in my opinion. It's not that I wanted him to smile more or something. It's just that there are so many different tones that work with Batman and I think interpretations thrive when they can successfully balance multiple colors. I was expecting him to be angrier honestly. But I understand where they were coming from with those creative decisions and I don't want to knock them per se. I just don't think it was for me.

My relationship with TB has so far been kind of strange because on paper I should be head over heels in love with it. A rain-soaked, gritty, noir detective story modeled after Fincher's Se7en is exactly the kind of Batman movie I've always wanted. And it is an impeccably well crafted piece of work. I love a lot of it truly but I can't shake the feeling of overfamiliarity, like so much of it I've seen before in other Batman films or cape flicks in general. Outside of some aspects a lot of it felt rote, redundant, like it wasn't moving the needle forward. That combined with the storytelling issues it has has softened my enthusiasm for it. But having said all that I am glad Reeves is in charge of the franchise now and I'm eager to explore his Gotham through the sequels and tie-in shows.

This encapsulates my feelings 100% perfectly. I think my biggest issue is that it did feel like it was covering ground that had been already covered a long time ago, and frankly was already done better in my opinion. The Batman is a great movie, but my lack of a connection to Bruce, it the assumption that we already knew who these characters were based on past iterations was kind of a mistake in my mind. It's taken me a while to fully put into words why something feels slightly off about it to me, and I guess that's it. It's too cold of a movie to me, and despite it being gorgeous with great performances and atmosphere, it at times felt like it was using it's style as a way to make it appear different and new, when in reality a lot of the themes in the movie have been presented to us before. I know context is key, but film is a different medium than comics.


If a lack of emotional pull is there, everything else can feel detached to me. The Nolan movies managed to give us just enough to care about all the characters involved. From Bruce's beginnings, to Alfred and even Gordon, who we see at the beginning of BB comforting a traumatized Bruce Wayne. That doesn't mean we need to see the origins of each character to connect, but I need a reason to care other than "that's Batman and Gordon".

despite Pattinson's great performance, it's not a good idea to make Bruce Wayne so unlikeable. I still can't get on board with how badly they made him treat Alfred or the emo style in general. I get that it's part of his arc, but it just didn't connect with me as well as I'd hoped. Doesn't help that Serkis Alfred was reduced to scenes where he's being scolded by Bruce too.

I still think the movie is great on its own though. I'm really just hoping at this point that whatever Reeves has planned for a sequel, it's bolder and more original. Whether people want to admit it or not, Nolan set the bar incredibly high and I do think it's created a challenge for filmmakers to do something entirely new with Batman, especially in a grounded setting. I don't want to say Nolan can't be topped, but I'm doubting more than ever that a filmmaker will ever create an adaption that resonates with audiences as well TDKT did. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Repeat after me: Gotham looking like a normal city is a legitimate adaptation.

I am reading Tom King’s run on Batman right now, and Gotham is mostly illustrated as a normal city. Across various artists actually. There is the occasional Tim Sale cameo where he takes us back to his wonderful gothic nightmarish vibes but most of the artists make Gotham look like the Nolan one.

 

[The Joker]

Gotham was a normal looking city for nearly five decades before Batman 1989.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

True. And it still is. For every artist that gives it a fantastical look, there is another that makes it look like basic NYC.

 

[Gothamsknight]

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Oh mister Wayne, what happened to you?

 

[The Shape]

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Oh mister Wayne, what happened to you?

credit to @HammerDown for the gifs

 

[HammerDown]

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Oh mister Wayne, what happened to you?

credit to @HammerDown for the gifs

Thanks for the shoutout but I might as well pass that credit forward to whoever did those gifs because I simply found them online.

Whoever that person is, thank you.

 

[The Joker]

Wow Bale looks awesomely disturbing. I am excited to see him play a CBM villain.

 

[Rick190293]

Bale returning to comic book movies is just...

Repeat after me: Gotham looking like a normal city is a legitimate adaptation.

I am reading Tom King’s run on Batman right now, and Gotham is mostly illustrated as a normal city. Across various artists actually. There is the occasional Tim Sale cameo where he takes us back to his wonderful gothic nightmarish vibes but most of the artists make Gotham look like the Nolan one.

This. Always saw Gotham as a normal city, even in TAS, is much more modern and contemporany than a 'gothic nightmare'. I find Burton and Reeves's Gothams beautiful, no doubt, but I wouldn't exchange them for what Nolan gave us.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Nolans is Gotham is still my favorite live action version. That, combine with Wally Pfisters cinematography, was just the perfect combo.

 

[Rick190293]

Nolans is Gotham is still my favorite live action version. That, combine with Wally Pfisters cinematography, was just the perfect combo.

Yeah, man. And specially in TDKR, it's so beautiful. Peak cinematography work.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Bale returning to comic book movies is just...


This. Always saw Gotham as a normal city, even in TAS, is much more modern and contemporany than a 'gothic nightmare'. I find Burton and Reeves's Gothams beautiful, no doubt, but I wouldn't exchange them for what Nolan gave us.

I don’t think Reeves’ Gotham is that far away from Batman Begin’s Gotham.

 

[Rick190293]

I don’t think Reeves’ Gotham is that far away from Batman Begin’s Gotham.

They are very similar, but I believe when we talk about Nolan's Gotham, it's about the cleaner/modern look of latter films.