The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

[Filmfreak]

I think he took Bond out of his system with Tenet. He expressed interest in the past and even in later interviews he never excluded it, but I doubt he cares for something like this or for any franchise anymore.

With Bond it would have to be him who would kickstart an iteration and choose the cast, crew and tone of the film. I doubt he would touch something someone else established or pass the baton to another director afterwards. Like his Batman it would have to be a self-contained story with a beginning and an end of his liking. And even then I doubt he'd do it. In any case, Broccoli and co are not known to be as flexible with creative freedom as it would require.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I will never ever ever understand some of the discourse surrounding The Dark Knight Rises. There's no superhero film in recent memory that has felt as final, conclusive, emotional and huge as that film did. It was the end of an era that I miss too. I get there was some sub par and bad CBMs in the 2000s, but there was also quite a few groundbreaking ones. TDKR felt like an amazing end to all that in a landscape that was quickly becoming shared universe centric.

And let's be honest, Bane was a phenomenal villain. He's iconic and with lines that are still quoted and have become memes to this day.

 

[Rick190293]

I see the main issue is: expectation vs reality. TDK was huge, Heath Joker was all over the world, so people were expecting another masterpiece like the previous movie. Nolan was very bold in making an almost disaster movie with a hero that is almost abscent, starts the movie retired, and is given a definitive ending. Pretty divisive. It's a shame, I think TDKR is as good as TDK, sometimes.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I see the main issue is: expectation vs reality. TDK was huge, Heath Joker was all over the world, so people were expecting another masterpiece like the previous movie. Nolan was very bold in making an almost disaster movie with a hero that is almost abscent, starts the movie retired, and is given a definitive ending. Pretty divisive. It's a shame, I think TDKR is as good as TDK, sometimes.

The thing is, when something as incredible and genre defining as TDK comes along, it's logical to expect the follow up to maybe not be on the same level while still being an amazing film. I knew TDKR wouldn't be as transcending as TDK, but it still blew me away and had me in tears at the end. ESB, T2, Godfather Pt 2, etc. It's very hard for that second chapter to be topped, but TDKR, in my opinion, succeeds more than the majority of 3rd installments do.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

It's very hard for that second chapter to be topped, but TDKR, in my opinion, succeeds more than the majority of 3rd installments do.

It's up there with Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and Toy Story 3, for me - as far as my Top 3 third chapters in a series.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Bane was a phenomenal villain. He's iconic and with lines that are still quoted and have become memes to this day.

This credit is very overdue, yes.

He was excellent. My only wish is that he had more scenes with Batman. But you're right - he is iconic. The mask, the quotes, the voice = everyone knows it.

For a villain to follow-up Heath's Joker and somehow manage to accomplish all those things - that's major.

And the film, Nolan and Hardy deserve credit for doing those things.

 

[BoredGuy]

Idk
imo, Bane was... a choice. He was too small and- in the end- not very intimidating, I couldn't understand half of what he said, and his plan just didn't work for me
Becoming a meme is not always a good thing, most references I hear to Bane in pop culture are digs at the character

I give the movie credit for what it tried to accomplish and having a finality most franchise films will never have, but it just failed in various regards and was utterly disappointing after the high of seeing TDK

 

[BatLobster]

A lot of people unironically love Bane, this guy included.

End of the day, whether you love or hate the choices Hardy and Nolan made with the character, I think memorable trumps unmemorable every day of the week especially when it comes to villains. It didn't escape Heath/Joker's shadow, but I think it had a very impressive impact considering what it was directly following and it also thoroughly differentiated itself in all the ways it needed to.

Also, I think Nolan in general played a massive role Tom Hardy's 2010s rise with the one-two punch of Inception and TDKR.

This film has joined Netflix, finally. The only one of the trilogy that wasn't on there.

Divisive Batman Movie Debuts on the Netflix Top 10

Debuted in the top 10 too (don't mind the clickbait headline hah)

 

[OnLeatherWings]

most references I hear to Bane in pop culture are digs at the character

Most of the time, the character is quoted or referenced, or people use the meme template of him with his arms open.

I don't see how the references are digs at the character. I think you're projecting a bit.

 

[BoredGuy]

When I've heard it quoted on film its usually some sort of joke about the voice, and again a meme template is not necessarily a compliment
Idk, the tone of the discussion about Bane is usually very different from the way people talk about Joker

Not saying he was bad, I just don't think he'll be remembered as a classic villain like the clown prince

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I just don't think he'll be remembered as a classic villain like the clown prince

Well, who IS as close as The Joker, usually?

That's a bit of an unfair standard. The list of 'iconic, classic villains' may be well known - but it's also pretty short.

Bane is pretty damn iconic in the Nolan films, considering how big The Joker was.

 

[BatLobster]

The thing is Bane was never really designed to be AS iconic as Joker. He served a very specific function in wrapping up Bruce Wayne's story. It could've been a very one-note, brute sort of character as Bane is often depicted but Hardy injected him with a quirkiness and persona that sticks with you. It was a very heightened performance but it still felt like a fully-formed character that you can easily imagine in all sorts of other scenarios and stories outside the film. From the body language to the voice, the sometimes bizarre politeness of his line deliveries, to the fierce acting with just his eyes. It's really, really good stuff. With Joker there are multiple iconic interpretations at this point, it's the most iconic villain in comics to begin with so you're setup for success (Jared Leto withstanding). That's taking absolutely nothing away from what Heath accomplished, but I think there's something to be said for following that with more of a B or C-tier villain like Bane that nobody was really dying to see and turning that into something that made a mark in pop culture. There's even a chilling, somewhat prophetic aspect to him in that he was meant to represent the threat of authoritarianism and how it could happen in America, and then 4 years later the most openly authoritarian-leaning US President directly quoted Bane's speech in his inauguration. Almost a little too meta for comfort, but it happened.

 

[The Joker]

No Batman villain is ever going to be as iconic as the Joker. The Joker's in a league of his own.

 

[Gothamsknight]

About to squeeze in a 10th anniversary screening of TDKR. I still can't believe it's been that long.

 

[Brother Jack]

There's even a chilling, somewhat prophetic aspect to him in that he was meant to represent the threat of authoritarianism and how it could happen in America, and then 4 years later the most openly authoritarian-leaning US President directly quoted Bane's speech in his inauguration. Almost a little too meta for comfort, but it happened.

That was one of the most "we live in a simulation" moments I can remember experiencing. The last few years have made a lot of things in the film hit far differently now, to the point that it feels eerily prescient to watch and at times even a little uncomfortable. But I think within that the film's depiction of heroism, the "super" and the everyday working class, resonates on a deeper level. It (and the trilogy as a whole) is ultimately an optimistic story about redemption and hope and it can earn a sincere depiction of those things because it goes to such dire and desolate places.

 

[BatLobster]

That was one of the most "we live in a simulation" moments I can remember experiencing. The last few years have made a lot of things in the film hit far differently now, to the point that it feels eerily prescient to watch and at times even a little uncomfortable. But I think within that the film's depiction of heroism, the "super" and the everyday working class, resonates on a deeper level. It (and the trilogy as a whole) is ultimately an optimistic story about redemption and hope and it can earn a sincere depiction of those things because it goes to such dire and desolate places.

Yeah, I think the part about the every day person gets a bit overlooked because people just interpret the final battle pro-cop, but I think Blake is meant to represent that every day person. He's a good person who happens to be a cop, but he also rejects that by the end. I think it's similar to what Gordon represented in BB. Them highlighting the simple kind act of comforting Bruce as the key to his heroism is the giveaway to what the movie is trying to say. There are just going to be cops in Batman stories, because that's the genre. I think people have very unrealistic expectations if they expect every single one to be depicted as bad and for all Batman stories to be explicitly anti-cop. The point of the final battle is those cops aren't really "cops" by the end. They're essentially rescued POWs who have been rallied and inspired by Batman and fighting in a completely collapsed society with no rule of law. They may be wearing GCPD uniforms there, but they've transformed into Batman's army for that climax.

And as far as the simulation glitching, it gets even weirder when you consider that they filmed at Trump Tower, and that whole incident where they got flagged by WB for using Zimmer's TDKR score in one of their videos. I agree, it's weird and kind of uncomfortable. I still love Bane and the memes and have fun with it, but when you stop and think about what he actually represents it's really pretty terrifying. I think what really is crazy to me is the sometimes cartoony-ness of Bane and the idea that anyone might follow/believe him holds up even better when you think about how cartoony the political scene has actually become.

Guess the same could be said for The Joker too though, really. Both villains are scarily relevant today. What I like about it is I can still watch the movies and be very entertained, but I agree, I think these movies resonate because they really do have teeth when it comes to the themes they explore but also find a way to offer a story of hope and redemption through it all. In a similar way that I think the original Star Wars trilogy does it. It can be something to cherish and hold onto in these dark times.

 

[I Am The Knight]

This credit is very overdue, yes.

He was excellent. My only wish is that he had more scenes with Batman. But you're right - he is iconic. The mask, the quotes, the voice = everyone knows it.

For a villain to follow-up Heath's Joker and somehow manage to accomplish all those things - that's major.

And the film, Nolan and Hardy deserve credit for doing those things.

Bane is interesting in that he goes from unintentional hilarity to being scary to being an absolute badass and then circles back to being funny again. It's quite the performance. It shouldn't work, but it does.

 

[Brother Jack]

Yeah, I think the part about the every day person gets a bit overlooked because people just interpret the final battle pro-cop, but I think Blake is meant to represent that every day person. He's a good person who happens to be a cop, but he also rejects that by the end. I think it's similar to what Gordon represented in BB. Them highlighting the simple kind act of comforting Bruce as the key to his heroism is the giveaway to what the movie is trying to say. There are just going to be cops in Batman stories, because that's the genre. I think people have very unrealistic expectations if they expect every single one to be depicted as bad and for all Batman stories to be explicitly anti-cop. The point of the final battle is those cops aren't really "cops" by the end. They're essentially rescued POWs who have been rallied and inspired by Batman and fighting in a completely collapsed society with no rule of law. They may be wearing GCPD uniforms there, but they've transformed into Batman's army for that climax.

And I would say there is a redemption for the police as well, seeing them get their act together as a unified force for good after being shown to be corrupt, duplicitous, and largely ineffective for three movies. I suppose one could read that as copaganda if you wanted to but that would be missing the point. It's to show the "Batman effect" on the city, to fully realize Bruce's mission for Batman to be a catalyst for positive change in Gotham. This is exemplified on a small scale with Foley who goes from this institutional ******* who kind of represents what's wrong with the GCPD to a humble public servant who actually gives up his life for the city. On a larger scale the cops being trapped underground mirrors Bruce's incarceration in the pit, where they are brought low so that they can rise out of it as something renewed and better than what they were before.

 

[Gothamsknight]

"Nobody will ever know who saved an entire city."

"They know. It was the Batman".

God, I love this exchange. Then you follow it up with the unveiling of Batmans statue, and it's very cathartic, especially after the end of TDK when Batman takes the fall for Harveys murders. It's the payoff and reward of it all. A symbol of hope and perseverance fulfilled, and a legacy cemented. Just one of the many reasons why I think TDKR is a beautiful ending.

 

[BatLobster]

And I would say there is a redemption for the police as well, seeing them get their act together as a unified force for good after being shown to be corrupt, duplicitous, and largely ineffective for three movies. I suppose one could read that as copaganda if you wanted to but that would be missing the point. It's to show the "Batman effect" on the city, to fully realize Bruce's mission for Batman to be a catalyst for positive change in Gotham. This is exemplified on a small scale with Foley who goes from this institutional ******* who kind of represents what's wrong with the GCPD to a humble public servant who actually gives up his life for the city. On a larger scale the cops being trapped underground mirrors Bruce's incarceration in the pit, where they are brought low so that they can rise out of it as something renewed and better than what they were before.

I think it does a nice job showing both sides of the coin on the issue because it does gives the GCPD a little redemption arc, it also sets up Blake's disillusionment with the police as a concept with his interaction with the cops blocking the bridge.

"Nobody will ever know who saved an entire city."

"They know. It was the Batman".

God, I love this exchange. Then you follow it up with the unveiling of Batmans statue, and it's very cathartic, especially after the end of TDK when Batman takes the fall for Harveys murders. It's the payoff and reward of it all. A symbol of hope and perseverance fulfilled, and a legacy cemented. Just one of the many reasons why I think TDKR is a beautiful ending.

TDKR does a really nice job wrapping up all those various character journeys. I think that ending montage is so effective because you realize, while this has been Bruce Wayne's journey, there's a lot of emotional investment in that whole supporting cast around him. Bouncing between Alfred, Gordon, Lucius and Blake and following all the characters impacted by Bruce's "death" only works because we actually do care about these characters and we're saying goodbye to them as much as we are to Batman.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

This is going to ruffle some feathers if I say it on The Batman board, but I seriously feel like since the new film's release, I've seen Bale's Batman films discussed far more and seen it make headlines much more often since March than the new film.

 

[The Joker]

This is going to ruffle some feathers if I say it on The Batman board, but I seriously feel like since the new film's release, I've seen Bale's Batman films discussed far more and seen it make headlines much more often since March than the new film.

I agree. It very much feels like it had a kind of effect where it came, people enjoyed it, it went.......and we're still talking about other Batman movies more than the new one.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I agree. It very much feels like it had a kind of effect where it came, people enjoyed it, it went.......and we're still talking about other Batman movies more than the new one.

Yes, exactly.

I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe The Batman is a film/series that's just going to be more niche and for the hardcores only.

Yet my counter to that point is that Joker was definitely a niche film, and maintained relevance and still is talked about.

I can't quite figure it out.

The data we have to go on suggests people dug the film, so I won't make the case that people didn't like it.

Yet at the same time, I see a lot of divisiveness or the film not even being brought up.

It's a bummer to me because it felt like the general public moved on very fast from this new Batman film.

I've seen more discourse about what a (guaranteed never to happen) 4th Bale Batman film would be like than discourse about the actual Pattinson Batman sequel that's confirmed.

I didn't really expect this.

 

[The Joker]

Yes, exactly.

I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe The Batman is a film/series that's just going to be more niche and for the hardcores only.

Yet my counter to that point is that Joker was definitely a niche film, and maintained relevance and still is talked about.

I can't quite figure it out.

The data we have to go on suggests people dug the film, so I won't make the case that people didn't like it.

Yet at the same time, I see a lot of divisiveness or the film not even being brought up.

It's a bummer to me because it felt like the general public moved on very fast from this new Batman film.

I've seen more discourse about what a (guaranteed never to happen) 4th Bale Batman film would be like than discourse about the actual Pattinson Batman sequel that's confirmed.

I didn't really expect this.

I've seen a few theories on why. The one I agree with is that a lot of it was stuff we'd seen before in other Batman movies. One element I see it get praised for in terms of doing something different is showing more of Batman's detective side. Which it did and it was cool and all.

But at the end of the day Batman solving riddles isn't the sort of thing you see audiences buzzing about when they walk out of theaters.

 

[Iceman]

I think it’s to do with the style of the film. It’s a more moody, stylistic, classic film than most CBMs that pursue the blockbuster route like the original Batman films and even the Nolan films.