The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

[OnLeatherWings]

I've noticed there are threads in Batman groups that ask normal discussion questions like "What didn't work for you about TDKT?" only for a reply or two from the OP showing they actually fully hate the series, and the thread was clearly looking for reasons to bash the series.

Like. Why.

 

[Gothamsknight]

So, I've seen this in some fans in the last year from the Pattinson side of things, and for over a half decade from BatFleck fanboys.

Even when I had fallen out of favor on the Dark Knight Trilogy and I was on Team-BatFleck, I never saw it from Bale Batman fans this bad.

And I really think a lot of the chest-puffing, seeking out Bale/Burton related content just to bash - it really seems to come from a place of insecurity. They really, really want Bale/Nolan dethroned as the perceived top tier of not only Batman films - but comic book films, in general. And they haven't.

I have a theory - it's all insecurity lashing out.

BatFleck fans seem keenly aware that the films he was in were poorly received. This stings - so they lash out and go out of their way to wave the flag and shove in the faces of others that they're wrong. It's like the guy who goes out of his way to brag about XYZ, whereas if he really was that good, he wouldn't have to brag so hard.

Snyder/BatFleck fans have always felt threatened by how the Bale-era films were and still are beloved because they feel their beloved nature makes people unable to accept anything non-Nolan/Bale. Which just isn't true.

Pattinson fans have been banking hard on Reeves' film series to overtake Nolan in terms of quality, reputation, stature, and quality out of some weird spite. I think on some level, they are a bit let down because it is pretty easy to find people still making fun of 'Twilight Batman', saying the film was too long/boring, or saying that they just flat-out felt the film wasn't that good.

It was still a successful film, but I don't think the film became part of the zeitgeist like they were hoping and it wasn't the talk of the town for that long and it's not been criticism free. And they're personally hurt by that.

So, they feel insecure and Bale's Batman is an easy target because if they can get people to like his Batman less, maybe they'll embrace the new Batman of their time.

I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud.



I can't comment on their age since I was that age or younger during the Dark Knight Trilogy era, and this type of behavior wasn't something I did nor did I see as much as I've seen it post-Snyder.

But it seems like in the wake of the rise of the YouTuber critic, I think it's become a hobby of sorts to do 'take downs' of things we don't like in a hyperbolic, snarky way.

I think the YouTuber critic format, coupled with the culture of obsessing over geek-content that you hate thanks to Star Wars fans' response to the Prequels - that's where we are today.

Fandom in the 21st century has often become less about what you love and more about what you hate. Or about what you hate about what you love.



I hate gate-keeping. I absolutely hate it. And I think that there's this contingent of newer Batman fans who think because we loved 'less faithful versions' than this new one (which again, faithful is up for interpretation - I don't think Reeves/Snyder are any more faithful than Nolan/Burton) - we must not be as big of fans of Batman as they are because we don't recognize the clear inferiority of Nolan and Bale.

*eyeroll

I can state my Batman/geek rap sheet, but I won't. Bottom line is that I'm a huge fan and have been my whole life. But I won't say I'm a better fan or more of a fan based on my timeline.

What I will say is that any fan - older or newer - cannot tell me that I'm less of a fan for liking something in that subject-sphere.

You can't force me to choose your version as the favourite or crown it the best.

I've literally read fans say that Pattinson's Batman breathes better than Bale or Keaton and that his tempered breath 'adds' to the character and his vibe. Christ, just say you love his version without resorting to that silly of a punching down.

I loved Pattinson too! It's okay to just say.



Some try to make the claim that it was always this bad - we just didn't know before social media. But I don't agree, at all. Sure, there likely were SOME people like that - but the proliferation to what we have now tells me that social media is having an effect to make it so more people are getting into that toxic-fandom mindset.

We are communal learners. Online is community. And if that community is toxic and based on hating XYZ, what else will happen?

I think social media and YouTube have encouraged it in people who, a generation ago, would've been doing other things with their time and mind. That toxicity of hate is so easy to get sucked into with online videos and chat sections.

And you hit another good point - Batman's character unfortunately may attract those edgy types of people. This is what people make fun of, honestly.

This is why the LEGO Batman film cracked me up because I feel like in the wake of BatFleck and Pattinson, both the newer parts of the fandom and the films...are starting to border on self-parody with their upping of the broody angst. I felt that some of the Reeves' dialogue teetered so close to that.

Either way, yes - a lot of fandoms are this way.
I just wish it wasn't this one, too.

Man, you essentially said everything I was feeling too haha. Like spot on, 100% exactly to the point.

It really boils down to the current generation not wanting the Nolan trilogy to be considered top dog anymore. Whether its "TDK wasn't a good Batman movie" or "Gotham is just chicago", or "Joker is an anarchist, which isn't what he's supposed to be", and the "Batman isn't the focus of these movies" or any of the usual comments you get from these fans. They are on a mission to prove that nobody actually understood Batman until Reeves came along, which i find ironic because there's little that Reeves did that was already done frankly much better in the past. Besides all of that, and their need to tear down the past, I HATE how they try to retroactively change the public perception of the Nolan films from back in the day. As someone who saw all 3 in the theater, and was a teen when TDK released, it infuriates me to no end to have experienced the the transcending of the genre in real time, the obsession with Nolan, and his name becoming something even my fellow students in HS knew only to have a bunch of bratty kids, that were infants at that time, try to act like that's not how it was. Nobody dared to crap on Nolan in those days without people going crazy, which obviously isn't healthy, but my point is that He was looked at as almost a god of the genre at that point, where people were even hyping up Inception next that don't usually talk about movies.


I also totally agree about the parody part. The bleeding eye makeup, and grunge/emo aesthetic has not aged well for me over the last year. It almost feels like it was done just to separate it from previous iterations, and unfortunately, it made me not really care for Pattinsons Bruce Wayne. It comes across as "try hard".


Also, before anybody tells me that The Batman didn't have to change the genre to be considered great, everybody I've talked to that I knew or was around during TDK era all said the same thing to me. "it was cool I guess. But it kinda just came and went". While that's not a bad thing, it's for that reason alone that I don't think this new era of Batman will have as long lasting of a legacy. That, and I the over saturation of comic book movies today. I still love them, but people are numb at this point.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I am wondering if some fans are much younger that I'm engaging with.

The second I make a mild defense of something related to these films, I get hit with "You're CLEARLY an irrational Nolan fanatic who cannot handle criticism!"

Like...they flip out. And accuse you of flipping out.

It's so bizarre. Are these just really young fans or are Bat-Fans this weird? Because some of this screams 13 years old.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I also totally agree about the parody part. The bleeding eye makeup, and grunge/emo aesthetic has not aged well for me over the last year. It almost feels like it was done just to separate it from previous iterations, and unfortunately, it made me not really care for Pattinsons Bruce Wayne. It comes across as "try hard".

"I have to force myself to remember...I've become a nocturnal animal..."
"I don't care about that. What I'm doing is my family's legacy!"

Bruce putting on sunglasses when he sees sunlight through Wayne Tower's windows (but not when he's actually outside for the memorial), Bruce's entire shy/angst vibe that never lets up, etc.

Those are the things I think of when I say almost like a satire of Batman. It feels like what CollegeHumor or LEGO Batman would've said or done to take the piss, a bit.

Don't get me wrong - there's so much I dig about Reeves' Batman and I do think it's only going up from here, but this is a gripe I got so far.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

It really boils down to the current generation not wanting the Nolan trilogy to be considered top dog anymore.

I think so, too - because full disclosure - I was in that camp for a bit, too.

Mostly because I burned myself out on the films by 2014 and because I started to have this weirdly limited idea of what Batman 'should' be. It was dumb.

They are on a mission to prove that nobody actually understood Batman until Reeves came along, which i find ironic because there's little that Reeves did that was already done frankly much better in the past.

They are.

I do remember Nolan fans doing the same to Burton, too - which I defended Burton at the time.

Which, I'll be 100% real - Reeves is no more 'faithful' to Batman than Nolan, Snyder, or Burton. He takes liberties.

Batman usually has an actual cave as his lair. Reeves' doesn't.
Batman lives in Wayne Manor outside the city. Reeves' doesn't.
Bruce Wayne has a playboy persona. Reeves' doesn't.
Catwoman is not Falcone's daughter (outside of TLH-verse). Reeves' is.
Riddler never killed Falcone in the comics.
Riddler isn't a scorned orphan with a grudge against Bruce Wayne.
Bruce's family was never morally gray in 99% of Batman history.
Riddler doesn't wear a full-face mask.
Penguin never worked for Falcone.

I could go on.

And this isn't to say Reeves' liberties are bad, at all. I dig 'em. Most of them, anyway.

I'm just making the point that he isn't anymore faithful.

Personally, I'm still hoping for a Batman series that's faithful in the Arkham-Verse manner, but I gave up whining about how Reeves and Nolan didn't do that because it's pointless and I'd be missing out on good stuff, too.

Besides all of that, and their need to tear down the past, I HATE how they try to retroactively change the public perception of the Nolan films from back in the day.

I won't quote your whole segment - but you're absolutely right, though. There's also this weird group of people who desperately want to paint The Dark Knight Rises as being on the same level as Spider-Man 3. Like both that it's AS bad as Raimi's third film AND that it was received as negatively.

Both of which are objectively not true.

I was there. The Dark Knight Rises was received not quite as amazingly as its predecessor, but pretty close an at least on par with Begins. That's how it was. It was considered one of the rare great third films in a series. It was a bittersweet film but people loved it.

But some have made it their job to act like it was The Phantom Menace quality-wise and reception-wise. Erasing the history. They seem to know it's wrong - but they seem to think if they repeat it enough times, it will become true in everyone's heads.

Also, tearing down of the past just tells me they worry that the new thing they love doesn't stand on its own. Which, Reeves' is good - they have no reason to be this insecure.

No offense to Matt Reeves, or anybody who plans on tackling Batman in the future, but it'll never happen again. I'm telling you, it was lightning in the bottle at that time.

Yup. The time these films came out was a time when they were able to innovate a heck of a lot more. The genre was still fresh. The MCU was only hinted at by the 2nd film and only had its first real film by the 3rd Batman film. It was a different world.

Now? The genre is still viable but clearly has been on a decline of diminishing returns financially and culturally since Endgame - and it's going to take a lot more than going grittier and darker and repeating a lot of the same beats Nolan did for a Batman series to light the world on fire, again. I think the only way it could happen again is if Batman had a longer film-hiatus and went the live action Arkham-route because that's never been done before in film.

Also, before anybody tells me that The Batman didn't have to change the genre to be considered great, everybody I've talked to that I knew or was around during TDK era all said the same thing to me. "it was cool I guess. But it kinda just came and went". While that's not a bad thing, it's for that reason alone that I don't think this new era of Batman will have as long lasting of a legacy. That, and I the over saturation of comic book movies today. I still love them, but people are numb at this point.

As a Batman fan - I hated admitting to myself that The Batman (2022) actually did just come and go very quickly. People I know saw and either liked it - or just felt it was boring/slow and that it wasn't as good as TDKT. I really was rooting for it to be more loved, too.

I also work with younger people (I'm close to 30, so) and they thought it was okay, or 'too emo'. And it just kinda came and went from their brains. They really like Burton/Nolan/Arkham games. And I'm talking kids from 8 to high school, because my program is broad.

They also dig MCU but not the new stuff. All in all - things are changing.

I think Matt Reeves' Batman series/world will be damn good. But I think Batman fans need to make peace with the fact that it will undoubtedly be more niche than mainstream huge. It just lacks that broad appeal.

Which is okay! As long as you're not expecting TDKT levels of success/acclaim.

But I don't think Reeves' fans are okay with that.

Batman Returns is my favourite Batman film specifically for its lack of that broad appeal. If it was more for everyone, it'd lose a lot of the spark and specialty that I love.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

The more I thought about Reeves' Batman and how it kinda just came and went so quickly - the more I'm starting to appreciate and understand fully just how damn good Nolan was.

The balance he achieved is something I don't see happening again in the genre.

Somehow, the guy weaved a Batman series narrative that was darker, grittier, grounded, and faithful - yet in a way that appealed to wider audiences. It didn't alienate hardcore fans OR casuals, and managed to become an acclaimed series artistically and a box-office behemoth that not only changed the way comic book films are made/looked at - but also influenced film, in general.

It never clicked with me until recently just how delicately he pulled it off and I'm shocked he managed to do so because the odds were against his series.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I am wondering if some fans are much younger that I'm engaging with.

The second I make a mild defense of something related to these films, I get hit with "You're CLEARLY an irrational Nolan fanatic who cannot handle criticism!"

Like...they flip out. And accuse you of flipping out.

It's so bizarre. Are these just really young fans or are Bat-Fans this weird?

I'd say it's both, but the young fans are more irrational. It's hard to converse with them because they only know the MCU and current era Batman stuff. Most of them don't even consider non MCU movies "true" marvel movies at this point.

I think so, too - because full disclosure - I was in that camp for a bit, too.

Mostly because I burned myself out on the films by 2014 and because I started to have this weirdly limited idea of what Batman 'should' be. It was dumb.



They are.

I do remember Nolan fans doing the same to Burton, too - which I defended Burton at the time.

Which, I'll be 100% real - Reeves is no more 'faithful' to Batman than Nolan, Snyder, or Burton. He takes liberties.

Batman usually has an actual cave as his lair. Reeves' doesn't.
Batman lives in Wayne Manor outside the city. Reeves' doesn't.
Bruce Wayne has a playboy persona. Reeves' doesn't.
Catwoman is not Falcone's daughter (outside of TLH-verse). Reeves' is.
Riddler never killed Falcone in the comics.
Riddler isn't a scorned orphan with a grudge against Bruce Wayne.
Bruce's family was never morally gray in 99% of Batman history.
Riddler doesn't wear a full-face mask.
Penguin never worked for Falcone.

I could go on.

And this isn't to say Reeves' liberties are bad, at all. I dig 'em. Most of them, anyway.

I'm just making the point that he isn't anymore faithful.

Personally, I'm still hoping for a Batman series that's faithful in the Arkham-Verse manner, but I gave up whining about how Reeves and Nolan didn't do that because it's pointless and I'd be missing out on good stuff, too.



I won't quote your whole segment - but you're absolutely right, though. There's also this weird group of people who desperately want to paint The Dark Knight Rises as being on the same level as Spider-Man 3. Like both that it's AS bad as Raimi's third film AND that it was received as negatively.

Both of which are objectively not true.

I was there. The Dark Knight Rises was received not quite as amazingly as its predecessor, but pretty close an at least on par with Begins. That's how it was. It was considered one of the rare great third films in a series. It was a bittersweet film but people loved it.

But some have made it their job to act like it was The Phantom Menace quality-wise and reception-wise. Erasing the history. They seem to know it's wrong - but they seem to think if they repeat it enough times, it will become true in everyone's heads.

Also, tearing down of the past just tells me they worry that the new thing they love doesn't stand on its own. Which, Reeves' is good - they have no reason to be this insecure.



Yup. The time these films came out was a time when they were able to innovate a heck of a lot more. The genre was still fresh. The MCU was only hinted at by the 2nd film and only had its first real film by the 3rd Batman film. It was a different world.

Now? The genre is still viable but clearly has been on a decline of diminishing returns financially and culturally since Endgame - and it's going to take a lot more than going grittier and darker and repeating a lot of the same beats Nolan did for a Batman series to light the world on fire, again. I think the only way it could happen again is if Batman had a longer film-hiatus and went the live action Arkham-route because that's never been done before in film.



As a Batman fan - I hated admitting to myself that The Batman (2022) actually did just come and go very quickly. People I know saw and either liked it - or just felt it was boring/slow and that it wasn't as good as TDKT. I really was rooting for it to be more loved, too.

I also work with younger people (I'm close to 30, so) and they thought it was okay, or 'too emo'. And it just kinda came and went from their brains. They really like Burton/Nolan/Arkham games. And I'm talking kids from 8 to high school, because my program is broad.

They also dig MCU but not the new stuff. All in all - things are changing.

I think Matt Reeves' Batman series/world will be damn good. But I think Batman fans need to make peace with the fact that it will undoubtedly be more niche than mainstream huge. It just lacks that broad appeal.

Which is okay! As long as you're not expecting TDKT levels of success/acclaim.

But I don't think Reeves' fans are okay with that.

Batman Returns is my favourite Batman film specifically for its lack of that broad appeal. If it was more for everyone, it'd lose a lot of the spark and specialty that I love.

I honestly feel like something less grounded would have a broader appeal at this point. so many people felt that the grounded route was covered and perfected by Nolan, and reeves just doubled down on it even more which, you know i like the movie, but I'm exactly chomping at the bits to see whats coming next unfortunately.

haha I honestly love Spider-Man 3, and I've always been a defender and thought it got wayyy too much hate. It's good, just not as amazing as the first 2. but yes when it came out, a lot of people crapped on it, while The Dark Knight Rises had a really positive response overall from critics and GA overall. The movie isn't even remotely in the "mixed" category, and it's always been considered a satisfying conclusion to the trilogy. I don't really understand where all the hate for it has suddenly come from, and you can bet your butt that the twitter crowd will take an flaws they see and over exaggerate to make the film look bad. TDKR, for me, is still the best cbm of the last decade imo. It's a gorgeous film, with great action, fantastic performances (Hardys Bane is legendary), beautiful cinematography, and really relevant and powerful themes. I'd say it's also Nolans most emotional movie along with Interstellar.

People don't really like to hear that "we have seen it all" within the genre, but we pretty much have. even when you take the Nolan films out of the equation, what else is left? People bring up the X-Men coming to the MCU, but let's be real, whether you love the Fox movies, which I do for most, or hate them, They're pretty damn iconic and i doubt people will just suddenly forget about Jackman and the rest. Same for the upcoming Blade movie, which has had a lot of trouble getting made. It really has all plateaued, and when you factor in Reeves making a Batman film in a grounded world, I think it's gonna forever live in the shadow of what Nolan did in some form. And don't get me wrong, I actually do really like what Reeves is doing, and I'm on board I'm just speaking more in the context of genre importance and in relation to past eras.

And they aren't okay with it. Literally as I type this, another Batman fanboy on twitter said his hot take is that Nolan is overrated. They all have a bone to pick with that trilogy, whether they admit it or not. That's why I say it's now best to approach these things from the outside looking in. It's better for your sanity, because if you engage too much, it makes you not even want to be around the stuff you enjoy.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Why did people start hating the Dark Knight/Rises Batsuit?

I used to not care for it and everyone would say it's the best.
Now that I love it, everyone says it sucks compared to the first suit.

Like, they're both cool. To me, at least.

 

[BatLobster]

The more I thought about Reeves' Batman and how it kinda just came and went so quickly - the more I'm starting to appreciate and understand fully just how damn good Nolan was.

The balance he achieved is something I don't see happening again in the genre.

Somehow, the guy weaved a Batman series narrative that was darker, grittier, grounded, and faithful - yet in a way that appealed to wider audiences. It didn't alienate hardcore fans OR casuals, and managed to become an acclaimed series artistically and a box-office behemoth that not only changed the way comic book films are made/looked at - but also influenced film, in general.

It never clicked with me until recently just how delicately he pulled it off and I'm shocked he managed to do so because the odds were against his series.

I really think that just speaks to Nolan's strength as a filmmaker. He makes movies that are unapologetically his vision, often with something in the narrative that is unconventional, but at the same time resonate with a wide audience. He knows how to bring people on for the ride. It's a homegrown indie/auteur sensibility combining with a deep understanding (IMO) of what the audience wants/needs when it comes to blockbusters. Which then allows him to both meet and subvert expectations extremely effectively and deliver something that feels fresh and authentic. When you combine all of that with a beloved character, a collaboration with two legitimately huge fans, I think that's where something really special emerged.

Admittedly I'm a huge Nolan fan overall. He's my favorite big scale filmmaker of the past two decades easily. But when it comes to his Batman movies, I do think they are something unique even within his own filmography just because it was this big collaboration. It's not just the Chris Nolan show. I think there was very unique alchemy there where the DNA of it is very faithful and mindful of the source material, but it was coming through a unique filter with Nolan's vision. Goyer and Jonah both made huge contributions and pitched ideas that he needed to be convinced on but ultimately embraced fully. Then think of all the creative freedom Ledger had with crafting everything about his Joker performance from scratch, down to applying his own makeup. You can go down the line with Zimmer, Wally, Nathan Crowley...so many people doing career-highlight work on those movies. That doesn't happen by accident. Any great director IMO has to know how to maximize the strengths of their collaborators, I just happen to think his Batman films are a really great and clear example of that.

It also will never not be incredibly charming to me that the whole creative process started with them hanging out in Chris' garage, hashing out story beats while putting together concept models of the Batmobile with various mistmatched car model pieces. I mean...that's just not how movies of that size get made in Hollywood. To think of how huge those movies became and the fact that it all started in a garage with grown men just playing like kids, pure pie in the sky imagination, not a studio executive in sight...it's just so damn cool and inspiring to me.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I honestly feel like something less grounded would have a broader appeal at this point. so many people felt that the grounded route was covered and perfected by Nolan, and reeves just doubled down on it even more which, you know i like the movie, but I'm exactly chomping at the bits to see whats coming next unfortunately.

I think you're right. And while Batman has had the most screen-time out of all superheroes aside from maybe Spider-Man, there's still a lot of uncharted territory that film could go with him.

And the more fantastical/less-grounded route is something we've not had done or done well as a solo series.

Fresh off the Arkham series, too. It was ripe for plucking.

Why Reeves choose to go grounded - I'll never know. He seems like a guy who digs the weirdness and fantastic nature of Batman. After all, he shares the same favourite Batman film as me (Returns).

It just made me less excited for his film from its inception because I felt like he was treading ground already well traveled. And I think it's kinda made it sit in Nolan's shadow, by proxy.

People don't really like to hear that "we have seen it all" within the genre, but we pretty much have. even when you take the Nolan films out of the equation, what else is left?

This is a fair question. I think that the well is dried up as far as genre innovation goes, sadly. At least for awhile.

I feel like the comic book film genre is riding on goodwill, at this point. The general public is slowly trickling out as the MCU falls into the same trap as their '90s comics (oversaturation, overcomplicated storylines of multiverses) and people are just bored of the gritty alternatives.

That's why I say it's now best to approach these things from the outside looking in. It's better for your sanity, because if you engage too much, it makes you not even want to be around the stuff you enjoy.

This is very true. It comes to a point where I can't separate the discourse/fan-baggage from the thing I enjoy and it sucks.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I would return it if I were you. That's damaged goods.

The seller also sells the 4K editions individually and he has a Dark Knight one up for sale, currently.

I inquired if I could send back my Dark Knight for an exchange, but eBay sent it as a full return request. So I messaged the seller to clarify that I was hoping to just exchange.

The seller sent me a return slip for the whole set and blocked me.

Like...all I did was ask so that he could keep the sale and I'd not have to lose out on opening my other two films.

But okay, I guess.

What sucks is that he's the only one that had '89 4K Steelbook set for sale, too. Now I can't buy it off him.

I'm returning the set to him for a full refund.

Already ordered a new set off a nicer seller.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Someone put up '89 4K steelbook today for $50 bid or 'Best Offer'. I offered what I'd have paid to the seller that blocked me.

The seller accepted the offer.

This means I now will have my Top 5 Batman films on 4K, all the same series of editions. Heck. Yes.

Now, I'd love if they also made one of The Batman.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Do zoomers really hate the trilogy? Don’t let social media fool ya. It has a way of amplifying minority voices to seem like they are bigger.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I've talked a lot about the trilogy 4K sets, but even though this isn't the thread for it, I figured many here may be interested to know that the Schumacher films are getting the same 4K Steelbook Collector's Deluxe treatment that The Dark Knight Trilogy/Burton Duology did.

Not out yet.

 

[Matt.S99]

I've noticed there are threads in Batman groups that ask normal discussion questions like "What didn't work for you about TDKT?" only for a reply or two from the OP showing they actually fully hate the series, and the thread was clearly looking for reasons to bash the series.

Like. Why.

So I’m not crazy. I just posted in the Batman Subteddit “I see a lot of negative posts towards the trilogy, so what is something you enjoyed from the films”
And people seem to be very confused by that. And the person who seems to be an avid hater of the Nolan films has replied to a few comments negatively.


I agree with pretty much everything you’ve all said in the past couple pages.
I loved The Batman and I’m so excited to see more, but for some reason, I’m missing the Nolanverse more and more these days. It has one of the greatest ensemble casts ever, IMO.

They all have bits I love and bits I would change, but I love all these different iterations of the character. Keaton will always remain the top dog for me, but Pattinson and Bale are up there too. I’d say Pattinson was my second favourite Batman, but Bale had the best Bruce. If we’re comparing Batman from TB and Begins though, it’s a closer race.

But yeah. Something was definitely so special about the Nolan trilogy that we probably won’t get again.
I hope we do one day, and not necessarily even just for Batman, but for a comic book film in general.
I don’t see that happening anytime soon, though.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Do zoomers really hate the trilogy? Don’t let social media fool ya. It has a way of amplifying minority voices to seem like they are bigger.

It's definitely a minority, but an annoying minority. I guarantee if you polled the GA, they would overwhelmingly choose the Nolan trilogy over other iterations. Heck, IGN asked who the best Batman was and Bale won that poll. It seems like Twitter specifically is the echo chamber

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I think I'm missing the balance and heart/soul of this trilogy in comic book films, as a whole - not just Batman since.

When I revisited them last year for the first time in many, many years - I was shocked at what I felt while watching them.

They had such a balance between how dark they'd get and the emotional investment they'd evoke, somehow. Which isn't a typical Nolan trait, I'd argue.

I really miss that and I think it's largely what makes this series so palatable, quotable and rewatchable.

As much as I wish it were the case, I have not at all been enticed to rewatch Reeves' film. It just isn't that type of film you rewatch.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Yeah, as a whole most comic book films today lack sincerity. Everything seems to be done in an ironic way, instead of playing it with heart and emotion unfortunately. Everything has to be undercut by a joke, as if they're afraid to be what they are supposed to be. I miss the days of Nolan and Raimi, and it's a shame people see it as corny.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Raimi's Spider-Man films are just so full of heart, soul, and sincerity. There's so much weight in them.

I really miss it.

And no, this isn't nostalgic pining - I just think artistically and for the medium, not being constantly meta and almost ashamed of your source material is a good take.

I really think people took the wrong lessons from Joss Whedon's MCU films.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I don't have a Twitter - but because Gothamsknight mentioned (I think) that it was a mess, I just couldn't help but peek.

Holy Bat-Crap.

There's still a lot of praise for the Dark Knight Trilogy and defenders. But wow, for others - you'd think that this series was the Prequels.

There's one user that literally posts the same message everyday - "This is your daily reminder that Christoher Nolan did not understand Batman and whitewashed his entire story. Thank you."

Like...why?

It’s like there’s some silly all out ‘war’ against “Nolan fanboys” (fanboys I don’t even really see, anymore) and there’s this campaign to call Nolan out and any Batman fans that love his trilogy.

And then post after post with the audacity to say these films didn't 'get' Batman? But then praise Snyder and Reeves (the latter of whom borrows a lot from Nolan, mind you).

I just don’t get it. Don't we have better things to do than spend time on things we hate, rather than what we love?

I'm not venturing onto Twitter again anytime soon...

 

[squeekness]

I don't have a Twitter - but because Gothamsknight mentioned (I think) that it was a mess, I just couldn't help but peek.

Holy Bat-Crap.

There's still a lot of praise for the Dark Knight Trilogy and defenders. But wow, for others - you'd think that this series was the Prequels.

There's one user that literally posts the same message everyday - "This is your daily reminder that Christoher Nolan did not understand Batman and whitewashed his entire story. Thank you."

Like...why?

It’s like there’s some silly all out ‘war’ against “Nolan fanboys” (fanboys I don’t even really see, anymore) and there’s this campaign to call Nolan out and any Batman fans that love his trilogy.

And then they have the audacity to say these films didn't 'get' Batman? But then praise Snyder and Reeves (the latter of whom borrows a lot from Nolan, mind you).

I just don’t get it. Don't we have better things to do than spend time on things we hate, rather than what we love?

Stylistically the two sets of films are very different. I've known very few who love both equally. More often one hates the other. For me it's still no reason to get nasty. Who cares if someone doesn't like what you do? It affects nothing in real life.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Who cares if someone doesn't like what you do? It affects nothing in real life.

It's not that I care per se - but I (and others) enjoy talking with fans about things we share a passion for.

There's a contingent of fans whose seemingly only goal is to harass other fans for liking something they deem blasphemous and 'not good', who stifle every conversation with bashing of whatever the topic is, and who police topics for 'wrongthink' and hate everything.

It's always going to bother fans like me when our space for talking geeky stuff is tainted by troll-ish behavior.

It's the behavior - not the opinion/taste difference.

 

[antsman41]

WINGS, I think you need to know where to go concerning bat-film twitter/reddit.

I never see unrealistic hate for Nolan... usually just honest discussions of his script issues, etc. on the sites/forums I go.

Same with Bat-stuff. The only 'hate' I see is Snyder-based (which is on par with my feelings on his universe, character outlook, designs) and frustrations over Dan Didio's reboot/crossover comic legacy.

Even with Snyder, all I see is constructive criticism.

 

[squeekness]

It's not that I care per se - but I (and others) enjoy talking with fans about things we share a passion for.

There's a contingent of fans whose seemingly only goal is to harass other fans for liking something they deem blasphemous and 'not good', who stifle every conversation with bashing of whatever the topic is, and who police topics for 'wrongthink' and hate everything.

It's always going to bother fans like me when our space for talking geeky stuff is tainted by troll-ish behavior.

It's the behavior - not the opinion/taste difference.

Oh, I agree. I think some folks like to fight and troll just to get reactions from people. So stupid. I'm glad this is a safer space, just a shame that other spaces get ruined by that crap.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

WINGS, I think you need to know where to go concerning bat-film twitter/reddit.

I never see unrealistic hate for Nolan... usually just honest discussions of his script issues, etc. on the sites/forums I go..

I'm open to suggestions if you've any, honestly.

I mostly stick to Reddit and just morbidly peeked at Twitter (regrettably) today.

I could post some examples of what I mean (calling people names for liking these films, saying they're not real fans, Bale 'sucks', etc.) - but a lot of what I see isn't good faith criticism that you're describing. Which, it's the internet - I get it.

It just is a bummer because these spaces should be chill.