The Xbox One

[X Knight]

edit.

 

[Marvolo]

Ill buy the Scorpio if it's $500, but I can't justify $600+. I know it seems like an arbitrary price difference, but as a matter of principle I can't support a game console that's crossing into that price range. Especially a mid-gen console. I'd be happy to wait for the price to drop to $500 or less.

 

[X Knight]

Hey Iceman,

I know that you are considering getting an X1 S.

if you haven't bought one yet, I wanted to give you a heads up on a potential "problem" that I've run into.

I've discovered that the S apparently can NOT upscale regular Blu-Rays to 4K. Even though official MS web pages say the S is supposed to upscale "everything" if you have the video output set to 4K UHD.

When I play games and check the display info on my tv, it shows a 4K output.

However, when I played a regular Blu-Ray film and checked the display info, it only listed it as 1080p.

So......something is not right........

I looked online and it seems other people are mentioning this issue. like these guys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9H5YRffjCI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJSrZT_pV9o

In that 2nd vid, he says the X1 S won't even play 1080p Blu-Rays unless you manually adjust the video output settings, but it seems that was an isolated problem that's been fixed.

But, the problem of the S NOT upscaling 1080p Blu-Rays still persists it seems.

I will need to look into and test this further. And this is a big deal for me because I bought the S in part to be a media machine and 4K player that upscales my regular Blu-Rays ( since there are more regular Blu-Rays out there than 4K Blu-Rays ).

If this is indeed true, this could be a potential deal breaker for me, as it defeats a main purpose for getting the S.

but, I just wanted to give you a heads up on this in case this would factor into your decision.

Also, the problem of my S not auto connecting to wifi ( or even recognizing available wireless networks ) has returned and has become more frequent. It's still random; but, I thought it had gone away but it hasn't.

And again, I looked online and it seems others are having similar issues.

So, another thing I wanted to give you a heads up on and another thing I need to look into further.

 

[Iceman]

Thanks for that (just seen you tried to PM me earlier, assuming it's about this).

I was actually out shopping and was looking at X1 S's a couple of hours ago. Still can't find a good trade-in deal so I'm probably going to buy one outright.

I'm not buying for 4K playback on films as my standalone player already upscales very well (and I need an excuse to use it given how bloody expensive it was!). But the wireless issue sounds like a real pain in the ass (haven't really had that on X1). What did Xbox Support say about these issues (if you've checked)?

 

[Matt Mortem]

I haven't had the wifi issue with my Xbox One S and it plays blu rays fine. Not sure what happened with X Knights.

 

[Iceman]

I think he's talking about whether the S is upscaling his blu rays. Good to hear you've not had wifi issues though.

 

[Matt Mortem]

I don't have a 4K TV so I can't speak to the upscaling thing.

 

[X Knight]

yeah, Iceman. I tried PMing you about this but it said your inbox was full!! lol.

so I figured I'd post it here to get your attention.

and yeah. I'm talking about upscaling Blu-Rays. It plays regular Blu-Rays fine. it's whether or not it's actually upscaling them to 4K that's the question.

Anyways, I just conducted my test.

There was a Samsung 4K player on sale for roughly the same price as the X1 S. I bought it, got it set up, and tried out my regular Blu-Rays. And on this Samsung player, when I click the display info on my tv, it says the output IS 4K. Even with a regular SD DVD, the output is listed as being in 4K.

So right there, to me, there's some kind of difference going on. and that suggests the S is not upscaling to 4K?

As for quality difference, it's hard to say. But I guess on the Samsung player the colors look a bit brighter and overall crisper ( I used the same TV input settings ).

Regardless about the perceivable quality difference, the tv display info does show different things with the 2 players. So, something's going on........

 

[Dave McFly]

I think it is stupid you need to have a special adapter that looks stupid as hell to run Kinect on the One S. When the first Kinect came out and you needed a separate power cable if you wanted to plug it into an model before the slim with it's own dedicated Kinect port.

 

[Iceman]

yeah, Iceman. I tried PMing you about this but it said your inbox was full!! lol.

so I figured I'd post it here to get your attention.

and yeah. I'm talking about upscaling Blu-Rays. It plays regular Blu-Rays fine. it's whether or not it's actually upscaling them to 4K that's the question.

Anyways, I just conducted my test.

There was a Samsung 4K player on sale for roughly the same price as the X1 S. I bought it, got it set up, and tried out my regular Blu-Rays. And on this Samsung player, when I click the display info on my tv, it says the output IS 4K. Even with a regular SD DVD, the output is listed as being in 4K.

So right there, to me, there's some kind of difference going on. and that suggests the S is not upscaling to 4K?

As for quality difference, it's hard to say. But I guess on the Samsung player the colors look a bit brighter and overall crisper ( I used the same TV input settings ).

Regardless about the perceivable quality difference, the tv display info does show different things with the 2 players. So, something's going on........

Oh, did you buy the player just to test this out? t:

Good to know. I would have thought your TV would upscale anyway, only one of the devices needs to do that. Either the source does it and sends the upgraded signal or the destination output device does it with the source sending an untampered intact signal which is then upscaled by the TV. But the dedicated 4K player is probably the best device to be doing it. And that would bear out if you are noticing differences. just depends how important those differences are to you. Upscaling is just guesswork at how best to fill unknown pixels so I never really consider it to be important.

Might be work checking with Support though on both of your issues and see what they have to say.

 

[X Knight]

Oh, did you buy the player just to test this out? t:

Good to know. I would have thought your TV would upscale anyway, only one of the devices needs to do that. Either the source does it and sends the upgraded signal or the destination output device does it with the source sending an untampered intact signal which is then upscaled by the TV. But the dedicated 4K player is probably the best device to be doing it. And that would bear out if you are noticing differences. just depends how important those differences are to you. Upscaling is just guesswork at how best to fill unknown pixels so I never really consider it to be important.

Might be work checking with Support though on both of your issues and see what they have to say.

yeah. I did buy the Samsung player to test this issue out.

And now I have to decide which to keep - the Samsung or the S.

And yeah, I know it's very subjective in telling differences in the upscaling. The only "objective" measure I guess would be what the TV is telling me in terms of the source output. And my TV recognizes whatever's playing in the Samsung as "4K." whereas on the S, the TV recognizes regular Blu-Rays as 1080p.

so, something on the part of the S is causing that, and that gives the impression that it's not actually upscaling the regular Blu-Ray. And to me, that's bordering on false/misleading advertisement on the part of MS.

So, right now, I'm very disappointed with this. This takes away a key reason why I got the S ( to have everything all in one ). And I know I'll be watching way more regular Blu-Rays on my 4K tv than 4K Blu-Rays. So, if the S doesn't properly upscale regular Blu-Rays, while the Samsung seemingly does, that's kind of a deal breaker for me.

and that doesn't even get to the frustrating wifi issue.

 

[Matt Mortem]

Hey X, can you see a definite difference between the Samsung 4K when playing blu ray's vs the Xbox One S? I know you're going off what your TV is telling you, but are you seeing a for sure difference?

 

[X Knight]

Hey X, can you see a definite difference between the Samsung 4K when playing blu ray's vs the Xbox One S? I know you're going off what your TV is telling you, but are you seeing a for sure difference?

major difference? no.

slight difference? perhaps.

On the Samsung, it looks a bit brighter and a bit more colorful and crisp compared to what it looked like on the S ( not saying it looked bad on the S either ).

I'd say it's similar to the Dragon Age "experiment" I posted a couple of days ago where to me, DAI running on the S ( upscaled to 4K I guess ) seemed a bit brighter, more colorful, and a bit more crisp compared to DAI running on PS4 where it was only outputting 1080p ( again, according to the TV ).

Indeed, I just started a new character on the PS4 DAI last night and played through the opening level again. And I did feel that it wasn't quite as crisp and vibrant as playing on the S.

and again, not a huge dramatic difference. but slight, to me at least.

I do know that I seem to be having horrible, terrible luck with the X1.

 

[Iceman]

Your TV will upscale the image if the source doesn't. Anyway if the TV is a better upscaler than the source you'd probably want that (although a dedicated 4K player should be best in that area).

 

[X Knight]

Your TV will upscale the image if the source doesn't. Any if the TV is a better upscaler than the source you'd probably want that (although a dedicated 4K player should be best in that area).

yeah. true. This Samsung player is also pretty nifty cuz you can stick a CD in it and rip to a USB stick apparently.

oh, and it was able to play the 4K version of Sony's Meeting videos where they unveiled the Pro. So, finally, I can watch that on a 4K/HDR tv ( neither the S nor my PS4 were able to play the 4K video files ).

well, I have another week before deciding what to do with the S. so I will think about it.

maybe it is better to have a dedicated 4K player and a dedicated "4K" game machine ( the Pro ) instead of everything all in one.

maybe I should have stuck to my original plan when I went to get my 4K tv instead of getting distracted by the shiny object aka X1 S.

 

[Iceman]

yeah. true. This Samsung player is also pretty nifty cuz you can stick a CD in it and rip to a USB stick apparently.

oh, and it was able to play the 4K version of Sony's Meeting videos where they unveiled the Pro. So, finally, I can watch that on a 4K/HDR tv ( neither the S nor my PS4 were able to play the 4K video files ).

well, I have another week before deciding what to do with the S. so I will think about it.

maybe it is better to have a dedicated 4K player and a dedicated "4K" game machine ( the Pro ) instead of everything all in one.

maybe I should have stuck to my original plan when I went to get my 4K tv instead of getting distracted by the shiny object aka X1 S.

If you want the best quality separates are nearly always the way to go. If you want convenience and a lower price you go with the all in one. The X1S is great value to be including a 4K player along with a games console but I didn't know rival 4K players were that cheap now in the US. The one I got was the best one available at the time but it was the equivalent of about $1k back then. t:

 

[X Knight]

If you want the best quality separates are nearly always the way to go. If you want convenience and a lower price you go with the all in one. The X1S is great value to be including a 4K player along with a games console but I didn't know rival 4K players were that cheap now in the US. The one I got was the best one available at the time but it was the equivalent of about $1k back then. t:

that's why you don't buy this **** right away.

but yeah, this Samsung player was on sale for $320 ( $80 off ), so that plus a new hdmi cable makes it equal to the 1TB X1 S. Warranty was the same cost, too, but the Samsung lasts 4 years instead of the S's 2.

So, essentially, it's an even "trade" between the 2.

 

[Iceman]

that's why you don't buy this **** right away.

but yeah, this Samsung player was on sale for $320 ( $80 off ), so that plus a new hdmi cable makes it equal to the 1TB X1 S. Warranty was the same cost, too, but the Samsung lasts 4 years instead of the S's 2.

So, essentially, it's an even "trade" between the 2.

There was no guarantee that consoles were going to have 4K players as at the time physical was dying a death; it's only recently that sales have surprised. Plus of course the Pro decided not to go with it so the entire gamble would have been on Xbox choosing to have one. And I'm a home cinema enthusiast so I would have wanted a top player anyway to take advantage of my other equipment and also future equipment I want to get. For eg the S won't be able to decode Dolby Atmos (used for ceiling speakers) which are next on my list.

It's only an even trade if you don't really value the gaming side of Xbox. With the Samsung you'd still need to buy another device for that.

 

[X Knight]

There was no guarantee that consoles were going to have 4K players as at the time physical was dying a death; it's only recently that sales have surprised. Plus of course the Pro decided not to go with it so the entire gamble would have been on Xbox choosing to have one. And I'm a home cinema enthusiast so I would have wanted a top player anyway to take advantage of my other equipment and also future equipment I want to get. For eg the S won't be able to decode Dolby Atmos (used for ceiling speakers) which are next on my list.

It's only an even trade if you don't really value the gaming side of Xbox. With the Samsung you'd still need to buy another device for that.

that is true. and that's what I will have to weigh.

One main reason why I went with the S was that I thought I could get "everything" all in one device. but now, that seems like it might not be the case. If the S doesn't upscale regular Blu-Rays, but a standalone 4K player like the Samsung does and does it better, that kind of shifts my interest away from the S and towards a standalone 4K player. which would then compliment the Pro which would be a more powerful game machine than the S.

I also don't like being misled as a consumer. that's always a big no-no and turnoff for me.

indeed, the more I discuss it with you, the more I'm inclined to keep the Samsung player and return the S while I still can get a refund.

I'd say, if given the choice, I'd value the all-in-one media aspect of the S more than just the gaming aspect alone.

 

[Iceman]

that is true. and that's what I will have to weigh.

One main reason why I went with the S was that I thought I could get "everything" all in one device. but now, that seems like it might not be the case. If the S doesn't upscale regular Blu-Rays, but a standalone 4K player like the Samsung does and does it better, that kind of shifts my interest away from the S and towards a standalone 4K player. which would then compliment the Pro which would be a more powerful game machine than the S.

I also don't like being misled as a consumer. that's always a big no-no and turnoff for me.

indeed, the more I discuss it with you, the more I'm inclined to keep the Samsung player and return the S while I still can get a refund.

I'd say, if given the choice, I'd value the all-in-one media aspect of the S more than just the gaming aspect alone.

I guess you're on a clock if you're worried about returning it but I would contact Support for an official answer before you assume you've been misled and read too much more into it. If what you described is the case it would be the same for everyone who buys the console and would turn into a wider issue. I don't know US law but you can get your money back outside of the regular returns period if something doesn't perform as described/advertised here. Especially with this as some people might only buy a 4K TV some months or more later than when they buy the console and not be aware of things like this till then.

When the TV is telling you the signal received is 4K it doesn’t mean any sharpening or improvement has taken place (and it also means that the TV upscaling will be turned off). A 1080p signal can be upscaled identically to a 4K signal for eg, the upscale there just refers to filling out the equivalent 4K pixels with 4 multiples of the exact same pixels for a 4K Image. Only the size of the image is therefore being upscaled (a 1080p image on a 4K screen would otherwise take up ¼ of the 4K screen) and that means no added value and that the TV would do a better job. So any product with an inferior scaler to your TV will make the image worse than it otherwise would be. If you add on the multitude of different settings that every TV has for 4K and HDR (as discussed earlier even HDMI ports are set up as default not to show HDR) getting these correct even for AV veterans in this AV generation is not quite straighthforward. Xbox Support and your TV manufacturer should be your first port of call before any panic sets in as it might be an issue easily solved or even something that is about to fixed by software update.

Aside from that I don’t know how good your 4K player’s scaler is but if you can barely tell the difference between that and when the TV upscales you need to decide how much you value that slight edge if it comes at the cost of investing in multiple devices. On the plus side of separates your 4K discs should look better on the player than they would on a console’s player (not confirmed yet though and Sony’s blu-ray player was a good one) and definitely better than streaming.

 

[X Knight]

I guess you're on a clock if you're worried about returning it but I would contact Support for an official answer before you assume you've been misled and read too much more into it. If what you described is the case it would be the same for everyone who buys the console and would turn into a wider issue. I don't know US law but you can get your money back outside of the regular returns period if something doesn't perform as described/advertised here. Especially with this as some people might only buy a 4K TV some months or more later than when they buy the console and not be aware of things like this till then.

When the TV is telling you the signal received is 4K it doesn’t mean any sharpening or improvement has taken place (and it also means that the TV upscaling will be turned off). A 1080p signal can be upscaled identically to a 4K signal for eg, the upscale there just refers to filling out the equivalent 4K pixels with 4 multiples of the exact same pixels for a 4K Image. Only the size of the image is therefore being upscaled (a 1080p image on a 4K screen would otherwise take up ¼ of the 4K screen) and that means no added value and that the TV would do a better job. So any product with an inferior scaler to your TV will make the image worse than it otherwise would be. If you add on the multitude of different settings that every TV has for 4K and HDR (as discussed earlier even HDMI ports are set up as default not to show HDR) getting these correct even for AV veterans in this AV generation is not quite straighthforward. Xbox Support and your TV manufacturer should be your first port of call before any panic sets in as it might be an issue easily solved or even something that is about to fixed by software update.

Aside from that I don’t know how good your 4K player’s scaler is but if you can barely tell the difference between that and when the TV upscales you need to decide how much you value that slight edge if it comes at the cost of investing in multiple devices. On the plus side of separates your 4K discs should look better on the player than they would on a console’s player (not confirmed yet though and Sony’s blu-ray player was a good one) and definitely better than streaming.

thanks for your advice, Iceman.

 

[Iceman]

No probs

 

[X Knight]

so I just talked to Xbox support via chat about the Blu-Ray issue.

I was told they are having "issues" with Blu-Ray playback and are working on it.

not sure if it directly relates to my upscaling issue, cuz I've seen other people on the forums complaining their Blu-Rays discs don't work at all. also, I've seen people complain certain 4K discs aren't being recognized. So the issue they're working on could relate to that instead.

but I have seen other people on youtube discussing the upscaling issue, with people in the comments sections backing it up. They even say upscaling was supported at one point but was REMOVED by MS.

Spoiler

[YT]iJSrZT_pV9o[/YT]

Spoiler

[YT]M9H5YRffjCI[/YT]

so, it does seem like there are currently issues of some kind with Blu-Ray playback.

but with no concrete timeline on when ( or even if ) it will get fixed, that doesn't really help me as I have a return period deadline that ends this week.

I'm trying to contact MS about the wifi issue, but right now the support site seems down.

 

[X Knight]

and I was able to talk to support about my wifi issue.

they said that, after doing all the resets and power cycles (which I did), if the problem still persists then it could be hardware related and they suggested to send it in for repair.

also, I was able to get a deeper, clearer explanation about the Blu-Ray upscaling issue. and it seems that the S really can NOT upscale 1080p Blu-Rays.

Here's the support page in question:

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/console/4k-on-xbox-one-s

and here's the section in question, as it is currently written ( as of 10/3/16 ) - words bolded for my own emphasis:

4K upscaling

When you set your console resolution to 4K UHD, everything on the console—Home, games, and apps—will display at 4K. 4K content is displayed in its native 4K resolution, and other content (like 1080p content) is upscaled to 4K.

To set your resolution and upscale everything to 4K, double-tap the Xbox button to open the guide, go to Settings > All settings, and then choose Display & sound > Video output. For TV resolution, select 4K UHD.

While it's true it doesn't specifically say videos and 1080p Blu-Rays, it does say "everything" and that "1080p content" will be upscaled.

I think it would natural to get the impression from that wording that the S would upscale regular 1080p BluRays, just like other 4K players would, since 1080p Blu-Rays would be considered 1080p content (duh).

I certainly got that impression and now I feel mislead. A big reason why I got the S is gone. I got it in part to be a 4K player for my new 4K tv - one that would play 4K discs but also upscale regular Blu-Rays ( which is actually more important and useful to me than playing 4K discs ).

Couple that with the wifi problem, and now it looks like I will indeed return the S.

Needless to say.......I am not happy about this.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

What's going on with your Wifi? Depending on what it is, I may have a solution.