TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 2

[Superwoman Prime]

How many times did we hear something to the effect of: "if the movie's bad, Snyder will receive the blame, but if it turns out good, Nolan will be praised"? We all seemed to agree on that much, because Nolan is the star director of superhero films right now. But now there are indications (not proof, yet), that MoS may have a mixed to positive response. Some want to subvert critical injustice by aiming at least some blame toward Nolan and Goyer; they after all played their part. Every person on the development team had their responsibilities.

 

[-JKR-]

Nah, sorry. I still don't think it'd be right to blame Snyder if the script/plot doesn't work for whatever reason.

For one thing, he's never been a particularly good writer/storyman. That wasn't 'his job' in this three way team up. He was supposed to bring the visuals, and get the best out of the actors, and by all accounts, he held up his end.

Goyer/Nolan are the ones we were looking to with wide eyed hope that they'd come up with an awesome story and idea. And we all had a few worries about whether Goyer's script would be strong enough, or would have too many 'Goyerisms', but we trusted that was being looked after and that it would be solid.

And how exactly can a director who has no sensibilties for storytelling and characters actually deliver a great movie? That's ONE FAULTY pont of view. You won't get a great movie just out of a "Visual-man." Directing is storytelling. Storytelling through the script, but also through the actors, how you direct them, how you film a certain scene, what tone, pace, whatever you give the scenes. For something like you've just said (the script will do the job of making the movie great automatically, we'll just have Zack Snyder for the visuals) you'd have to have him JUST setting up the scenery, and then have Christopher Nolan jump in and do everything else, including overseeing the editing later, in post-production. That's not how it works, pal!

 

[Project862006]

the rt score is now at 71% and falling fast. Looks like we got a another dc fail on our hands...

lmfao

 

[Krumm]

Why do we have reason to believe the movie completely sucks? Because it's got a few reviews on RT and is at 70%. That's saying the movie is decent or good, but not great. It also means if you're a fan of the source material you'll probably like it a lot. The reviewer I follow on IGN gave it a 9. That's usually a good gauge for whether I'll like a film or not.

This is far from GL which got the universal "It sucks!"

It's also based in 30(!) reviews. Expect another 200 by Friday.

 

[Sup3rman81]

The RT score is now at 71% and falling fast. looks like we got a another DC FAIL on our hands...

it has only had 31 reviews, most movies get around 200 or more reviews, plus its only been off the embargo for a few hours

 

[redfirebird2008]

Oh please. Lets not do this, when MoS was looking superb everyone was sure Nolan had nothing to do with it, because it's the directors movie. Now after a few negative reviews its all Nolan and Goyer at fault? Get out of here with that thinking, it's Snyders movie, he gets all the praise and all the blame. If this film is good, it's because of him. If its bad its without a doubt entirely his fault.

I wouldn't go that far. Goyer and Snyder should both get a vast majority of the credit or blame. In this case, it doesn't sound like either of them did a perfect job on the story.

 

[Hoorayforeric]

Iron Man 3 was sitting at 90% at 35 reviews. Now at 78%. MoS is at 71% at 35 reviews. Which way will it go?

 

[Bruce Malone]

For all the pressure and baggage this film has i think it needs at RT score at least into the 80's to alleviate some people's concerns about it.

God help us if Returns ends up with a higher RT score...

 

[Project862006]

And how exactly can a director who has no sensibilties for storytelling and characters actually deliver a great movie? That's ONE FAULTY pont of view. You won't get a great movie just out of a "Visual-man." Directing is storytelling. Storytelling through the script, but also through the actors, how you direct them, how you film a certain scene, what tone, pace, whatever you give the scenes. For something like you've just said (the script will do the job of making the movie great automatically, we'll just have Zack Snyder for the visuals) you'd have to have him JUST setting up the scenery, and then have Christopher Nolan jump in and do everything else, including overseeing the editing later, in post-production. That's not how it works, pal!

oh give me a freaking break this is'nt roland emmerich or paul ws anderson for god sakes

snyder knows how to direct actors and he understands characters very well

 

[Adder]

How many times did we hear something to the effect of: "if the movie's bad, Snyder will receive the blame, but if it turns out good, Nolan will be praised"? We all seemed to agree on that much, because Nolan is the star director of superhero films right now. But now there are indications (not proof, yet), that MoS may have a mixed to positive response. Some want to subvert critical injustice by aiming at least some blame toward Nolan and Goyer; they after all played their part. Every person on the development team had their responsibilities.

you can't reason with Nolanites though

 

[hopefuldreamer]

How many times did we hear something to the effect of: "if the movie's bad, Snyder will receive the blame, but if it turns out good, Nolan will be praised"? We all seemed to agree on that much, because Nolan is the star director of superhero films right now. But now there are indications (not proof, yet), that MoS may have a mixed to positive response. Some want to subvert critical injustice by aiming at least some blame toward Nolan and Goyer; they after all played their part. Every person on the development team had their responsibilities.

This ^

We knew it was coming... it's still annoying.

And how exactly can a director who has no sensibilties for storytelling and characters actually deliver a great movie? That's ONE FAULTY pont of view. You won't get a great movie just out of a "Visual-man." Directing is storytelling. Storytelling through the script, but also through the actors, how you direct them, how you film a certain scene, what tone, pace, whatever you give the scenes. For something like you've just said (the script will do the job of making the movie great automatically, we'll just have Zack Snyder for the visuals) you'd have to have him JUST setting up the scenery, and then have Christopher Nolan jump in and do everything else, including overseeing the editing later, in post-production. That's not how it works, pal!

I think you're misunderstanding me.

I am in no way saying that Snyder can't take a great story and craft it into a great movie. He does have a great eye for storytelling in that sense, and he's always IMO, had a great understanding of character.

Watchmen is my favourite film of all time... I think he has an incredible gift for translating a story into something visually wonderful, with great pacing and performances.

I said nothing about the editing or the rest of the overseeing that directors have to do falling on Nolan, so please don't put words in my mouth.

The only aspect we are discussing is the script/story. And writing the script is NOT the directors job... it is the writer's job. And the writer's job is not one they gave to Snyder, because a) writing is not his strong point and b) Goyer came up with the damn thing.

Why are so many people contesting that?

And don't call me pal.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Iron Man 3 was sitting at 90% at 35 reviews. Now at 78%. MoS is at 71% at 35 reviews. Which way will it go?

Probably down, but you never know. TDKR was also heavily embargoed and was at 83% after 41 reviews. It is now at 87% after 301 reviews.

 

[robot]

Zero blame should go to the person who WROTE THE SCRIPT?

I would normally agree with this, but given the way this movie was made I think if it's script/story problems then the blame lay with Goyer and Nolan. Snyder had no say in the script or story.

Lets make one thing perfectly clear here. You don't get to tell me what I say or not, got it? So YOU get out of here with that.

Now, moving on, Snyder didn't touch the story or the script. Several people including Nolan and his wife went public saying they helped on that. Several reviews criticize the aspects from the screenplay. Whose fault is that? You seem to think it is ENTIRELY Snyders. Cute. But factually wrong.

Some people are arguing that it's OK for writers to be lazy, because it's the director's job to do absolutely everything. The hell.

The buck stops with the director...

If the story sucks, the director have the right to have it redone..... he's the DIRECTOR.. he's got ALL THE POWER...

Unless he doesn't.. and if he doesn't, then he's not really the director, just a 'visual effects manager'...

Try giving Steven Spielberg a bad script...

 

[Joker594]

At this point, if the Tomatometer sits at anything over 80% for this movie, I'll be completely fine.

That's like Batman Begins level quality. . .and that film is like my fourth favorite of all time.

 

[mad-sci]

I think a lot of people really don't get what's going on here - it's not the number of reviews that are positive or negative, it what some reviewers have said.

Drew at Hitfix has declared it as one of the best films (not CNN, FILM) he's ever seen. He's even said he took his 2 sons to watch it, and it blew their minds.

This is the same Drew/Moriarty who took exception to J J Abrams version of Superman Flyby with THAT script review, and who first notified fans about the flawed SR (he was the first reviewer to criticise the final product, NOT what he heard).


Then you have Devin at BAD, who openly criticised the film, and at the same time declared it the best Superman film yet, with better action than TA (which he LOVED). Devin hated SR openly, and had little interest in Superman. Now he's admitted he WANTS a sequel to MOS.


Don't you guys get it? These jaded reviewers want more Superman, BECAUSE of MOS! Forget the positive/negative reviews, that's not important.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Probably down, but you never know. TDKR was also heavily embargoed and was at 83% after 41 reviews. It is now at 87% after 301 reviews.

That's what is worrying me, I don't know if it will go up or down....

I feel ill.

 

[-JKR-]

oh give me a freaking break this is'nt roland emmerich or paul ws anderson for god sakes

snyder knows how to direct actors and he understands characters very well

Were you actually paying attention to what I was saying; in that it was a reply to the other guy's post?

I am in no way saying that Snyder can't take a great story and craft it into a great movie. You have to understand that Watchmen is my favourite film of all time... I think he has an incredible gift for translating a story into something visually wonderful, with great pacing and performances.

Of course a weak script is the writer's fault. But a director is the 'Great White Buffalo' of a production (of course, I repeat, unless the studio and producers stand in his way). He's the one who manages the movie's look, feel, pace, tone, etc. And so far Christopher Nolan & David S. Goyer collaborating (on the Dark Knight trilogy) have a better track record than Zack Snyder, IN MY DAMN, PERSONAL, NOT-TRYING-TO-INSULT-WHO-LOVED-HIS-PREVIOUS-MOVIES OPINION.

Watchmen, to me, represented everything that's wrong with Snyder. And while with material like 300 it resulted in a dumb, but fun romp, in the adaptation of Alan Moore's comic it resulted in a pretentious bore, which didn't manage to make the material work on the screen - TO ME!

It's not like I called you cusswords. Chill.

--- And before someone's calling me a hater: I've especially loved what I've seen in the Fate of Your Planet & Nokia Trailers, and the TV spots. So I'd be quite upset to find out that the movie won't deliver. And personally, I think it's going to be a solid flick.

 

[JOE]

If it wants to get back in the 80's it has some work to do. Although it's only 3 reviews away, 1 more rotten would set it back even further...

 

[bgshw44]

Too small of a sample. Ill worry if we aren't above 80 after 100 reviews

 

[JOE]

Iron Man 3 was sitting at 90% at 35 reviews. Now at 78%. MoS is at 71% at 35 reviews. Which way will it go?

Down to 59%?

 

[The_Raganork]

I just want to say that the majority of the negative reviews are boiling down to this not being a Donner film and Superman not being Christopher Reeve. I wouldn't be too concerned about the film until I see a review that judges the film on it's own merits.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

The buck stops with the director...

If the story sucks, the director have the right to have it redone..... he's the DIRECTOR.. he's got ALL THE POWER...

Unless he doesn't.. and if he doesn't, then he's not really the director, just a 'visual effects manager'...

Try giving Steven Spielberg a bad script...

Were you actually paying attention to what I was saying; in that it was a reply to the other guy's post?

Not a guy

 

[Joker594]

I just want to say that the majority of the negative reviews are boiling down to this not being a Donner film and Superman not being Christopher Reeve. I wouldn't be too concerned about the film until I see a review that judges the film on it's own merits.

That's a good point. A lot of these reviews have criticized Man Of Steel for being too "serious" and not being "funny" enough, when occasional campiness and silliness were key to the Donner version.

 

[Sup3rman81]

LOL people complaining about the story really??! Avengers had one of the weakest stories in recent film history. It was all action and CGI effects. the acting was terrible aside from RDJ and there was no story. Whedon gets praise for putting a ***** film together that was nothing more than popcorn fun. MOS even with a rating of 71% almost sits at an 8/10 average rating. that is pretty damn good if you ask me. RT scoring system is so flawed. even if a critic didnt love it but liked it, RT seems to take that as Rotten. I will go by the Cinescore and what movie goers think

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Of course a weak script is the writer's fault. But a director is the 'Great White Buffalo' of a production (of course, I repeat, unless the studio and producers stand in his way). He's the one who manages the movie's look, feel, pace, tone, etc. And so far Christopher Nolan & David S. Goyer have a better track record than Zack Snyder, IN MY DAMN, PERSONAL, NOT-TRYING-TO-INSULT-WHO-LIKED-HIS-PREVIOUS-MOVIES OPINION.

Watchmen, to me, represented everything that's wrong with Snyder. And while with material like 300 it resulted in a dumb, but fun romp, in the adaptation of Alan Moore's comic it resulted in a pretentious bore, which didn't manage to make the material work on the screen - TO ME!

It's not like I called you cusswords. Chill.

--- And before someone's calling me a hater: I've especially loved what I've seen in the Fate of Your Planet & Nokia Trailers, and the TV spots. So I'd be quite upset to find out that the movie won't deliver. And personally, I think it's going to be a solid flick.

Yeah, i'm bored of what your saying now.

Sorry, but I can't respect anyone who is unwilling to accept that Goyer/Nolan have any responsibility for the script/story that THEY came up with not being up to scratch.

It's utter blind fanboyism.