TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 6

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HAH! That's awesome. For me? It took me back as a child and I absolutely loved it. Watching it in a room now full of adults is embarrassingly silly. Again, the Donner-verse is leaps and bounds way behind me and left in classical lore it always will be. Can't wait for tonight!
 
Unfortunately any criticism of the Reeve movies will come across as sour grapes at this point (not to mention "disrespecting the dead" to some).

Alea iacta est. Be thankful we're here and not on some unmoderated troll haven.
 
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Here's something to chew on:

Man of Steel - 59%, average score: 6.4
The Incredible Hulk - 67%, average score: 6.2

Yeah makes no sense, i dont mean to say that bad critics should be ignored but when Fast 6 has 72% fresh you really starts questioning if critics from time to time really screw up. If a movie is fun and pop corn its seems to get away far easier with a fresh score, and for some reason some people think that superman still should be funny and campy
 
I don't think there's a conspiracy, but that doesn't mean individual critics don't push the Rotten button because of several factors - including how hyped the film is.

X-Men didn't really deal with anything serious. You can say it dealt with minorities, but it did it very differently in an unbelievable and popcorn fashion. I enjoyed the first two (actually liked most of Last Stand too).

But there always is a question for any viewer as to what their expectation were coming in. Just by reading the reviews themselves, you can tell the problem with most of the critics is the critics themselves - they had bad expectations.

Many of them wished Superman would quip more one liners and that's the reason why it got a lukewarm review. That the Robert Downey effect. But that's not Superman. If you want a Superman movie with zingers then you're setting yourself up to not enjoy it.

Too much action? Avengers didn't have too much? If you didn't criticize Avengers for action a year ago then you're being inconsistent as a critic. Maybe because Avengers didn't ask them to deal with more serious subject matter?

But I saw similar things with some of the lukewarm reviews of Into Darkness too. Those alleged "plot holes" that many critics attacked were not plot holes at all. Indeed, if you actually pay attention to the movie, you understand where it's coming from.

I just find it funny that a lot of these critics get paid for their opinions, even though their opinions are often out of line with a lot of the public at large. Shouldn't they care more about how the public will view the film than the lens they see it through?

There's a combination of things at work here. Superhero fatigue - maybe a bit. Marketing fatigue - probably wouldn't surprise me if some critics lash out because of the marketing effort. Dislike of movies that try to make superheroes relatable (again, Batman is not super).

Yet this is all imposing the critic's outside perspective on the review instead of letting the movie speak for itself. And it doesn't just go for Man Of Steel. You may find critics that may agree with a film's political outlook call it fresh while they knock down one they disagree with. But do those political opinions matter inside the film? I know I can watch a film and enjoy it even if it may portray something I disagree with because I can separate my opinions from the film and enjoy it on its own merits.

A lot of these critics cannot.
I'm not saying it can't happen but there's so many hyped movies that get fantastic reviews so that argument isn't very solid.

I don't see what's unbelievable about the people in the X-Men movies being outsiders as it's mainly used as allegory. I don't know if any movie superhero has invoked more emotion in me than Fassbender's Magneto, and without going overboard with it. It's not like the Batman movies are at all realistic either (there's plenty of plot convenience, unrealistic events etc if we're to point such out).

Some might want something different in the humor department but what's really wrong with that? People want different things. Some critics just wanted more levity as sometimes a movie can suffer if it takes itself more seriously than what works. That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with expectations either, it can just be that they are watching it and feel that something is missing.

Too much action most likely means more action than they feel the movie can carry. You can't just throw action in there, you have to make it mean something as well. That's why Avengers and Transformers are seen as so vastly different (with very good reason in my opinion).

I didn't follow STID, and haven't seen it, but the ST fans I know say that both the new movies have some plot holes, but they still love them. Fans are generally more willing to let things go. That movie got great critic reception overall though.

And it's pretty natural that critics don't like exactly what the GA likes. When I started taking my movie interest more seriously and learned more about the art of making them my taste in movies changed a bit. I'm far less well-read than the more experienced professional critics though.

And in the end you can say the same kind of things about fans. Lots of people here are defending a movie they haven't even seen. Can you imagine how people would react if critics started saying which movies are good or bad before they seen them?

I also saw someone listing RT scores, showing a couple of examples of high scores (The Godfather and No Country For Old Men) and dismissed critics on the notion that he was never going to watch those two movies. That means he said that critics are bad because they like things he's not interested in, and he's dismissing movies that he hasn't seen. The overall attitude doesn't seem unique here.

Judging from this whole thing I think the fans act more irrationally than the critics are, and that's despite that I expect to like MoS.
 
First post here...be gentle

I usually don't take rotten tomatoes too seriously or spend a great deal of time reading reviews but I am so heavily invested in MOS that I have been a bit obsessive about checking RT the last couple of days.

What I've discovered is that RT ratings aren't making any sense. Man of the reviews that are listed as rotten actually say things like "if you love big action movies, you will love this movie" and go on to give the film and overall C+or better. The same critics will have other movies that they have given a C+ to listed as fresh...

Another major issue I see with this particular movie is that it avoids many reviews from online sites like Aint it Cool, comic book movies and Superhero hype.

Imagine if the new Woody Allen movie were allowed to be reviewed by Comic fans or sites that only reviewed movies based on the appropriateness of fill for a young audience.

Critics choice bases its score on averaging the scores of the reviews which to me makes more sense.

Ultimately it seems to me that the actual reviews are more positive than their rotten or fresh rating indicates.

Since when does a 2 1/2 stars out of 4 mean rotten? As a teacher, it is hard for me to relate a "C" or better to failing.

Eight and a half hours and I will judge for myself!
 
Here are the top 10 movies for last week

The Purge: Critics 38% Audience 43%

Fast and Furious: Critics 72% Audience 87%

Now You See Me: Critics 47% Audience 75%

The Internship: Critics 33% Audience 69%

Epic: Critics 62% Audience 67%

Star Trek Into Darkness: Critics 87% Audience 92%

After Earth: Critics 11% Audience 46%

The Hangover Part III Critics 20% Audience 48%

Iron Man 3: Critics 78% Audience 83%

The Great Gatsby: Critics 50% Audience 70%


So in all but 3 cases the critics and the audience for the most part agreed. Now MoS could well be one of those "exception to the rules" movies. In fact I'd probably say it will be, but we don't know yet.

However the idea that critics are vastly out of line with the general audience is a false notion. Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but in most cases, while the percentages may be off a bit, the general audience and critics usually agree.

I count six instances. That means 60% of the time the audiences disagree.

You can try to look at it from a Fresh/Rotten perspective, but I'm not buying that. Anytime the critics and audience are more than 10% apart, they don't agree.

Fans liked Fast and Furious by 15 points more than the critics. That's significant. 28 points for Hangover III. Sure, you can say they both thought it rotten, but how rotten was vastly different.

So critics and the audience vastly disagree 60% of the time based on the small RT sample.

I guarantee you it will happen this time. Expect Man Of Steel to be in the 80s for audience. How bad do the critics look if it hits the 90s with the audience?
 
F&F 6 is good fun, doesnt try to be more, it's safe. MOS seems to be pretty ambitious, I think that's when you risk exposing yourself to more criticism because you actually try something different, that a lot of people will have an opinion on.
 
Unfortunately any criticism of the Reeve movies will come across as sour grapes at this point.

I'm not even talking Man of Steel. Haven't seen it yet (though any positives comparing the Donnerverse to Man of Steel will come across as homerism, refusing to let go from the past.)

I'm just saying I'm ready to officially move on from 30+ years ago. It's drastically needed for this fan. I will not compare anything to Reeve's Supes. It's seriously behind me, only thought about for the classical and respected movies they certainly are. They just don't hold up to the present-time any longer. Atleast IMHO.
 
lol having seen the movie too... I say you're allowed to your opinion. I'm glad you enjoyed the flick. Wish I could have too.

- Jow

I saw it and loved it so it's two against one :D Har Har!
 
Yeah makes no sense, i dont mean to say that bad critics should be ignored but when Fast 6 has 72% fresh you really starts questioning if critics from time to time really screw up. If a movie is fun and pop corn its seems to get away far easier with a fresh score, and for some reason some people think that superman still should be funny and campy
I don't think any director personifies "fun" and "popcorn" more than Michael Bay and he has one single fresh rating in his entire career. We can't dismiss things on such simple grounds.
 
Does anyone what Kevin Smith thought of MOS? I haven't been able to find anything about his thoughts.
 
About RT, let's not fool ourselves about most of the time, the significant difference btw critic rating and audience rating. Much of the audience is the average joe, there are movie fans but we're a minority, the average joe will judge a movie by saying "it was awesome", or "great movie" but is not gonna be able of real critical analysis (I'm not being arrogant, just realistic) or to really go deeper in his opinion.

Critics are more apt, for the professional ones, at judging movies, because they know all of that stuff, some have studied it.
 
Just because one reviewer in Tampa gave it a great review does NOT mean the film has ZERO issues. Don't be foolish.

To me it does.

I have 20 years of experience with Persall. Only two comic book films have been given an A by him during that period - this and The Dark Knight.

Do you trust reviewers more if you actually know how they review? That's the problem with RT - no relationship with the reader. Just an aggregator. Persall's isn't even up there yet.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/critic/steve-persall/
 
I don't think most of the people complaining about inconsistencies on Rotten Tomatoes understand how that site works.

You have to APPLY and be ACCEPTED as a reviewer. RT doesn't have a staff of people collecting reviews from around the internet and movie blog and Facebook fan page.

The reviewer chooses whether he/she feels the movie is Fresh or Rotten. The rating was created ASIDE FROM the star/grading scale. It's yes or no = do you approve the film or not.

The overall score is NOT the average review score it is the approval rating of the film. What percentage of critics (WHO ARE A PART OF ROTTEN TOMATOES NOT JUST THE INTERNET) found it Fresh or rotten.

Learn the how before you criticize the why
 
Does anyone what Kevin Smith thought of MOS? I haven't been able to find anything about his thoughts.

I don't think he'll be able to hate on it right away.... if at all. He's kinda involved in the marketing of the flick and also as a film maker has a relationship with Warners right now that idk if he'll wanna risk upsetting people.

- Jow
 
I just found out WHO is behind MAN OF STEEL's Rotten Tomato score! FEIGE!

-@elmayimbe

...

Edit: back to 59%.
 
Some good news, folks. Top Critic Peter Travers likes MOS! I really trust this guy's opinion.:woot:

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/videos/this-is-the-end-man-of-steel-both-bring-the-goods-20130613

That's a huge relief. Perhaps more positives will come but like others have said, you look for those 1-3 positive reviews and 2 more negatives are found. This will be lucky to even stay fresh. It could be a case where critics are wrong and GA loves it. Most of the negative reviews praise one or two aspects of the film which doesn't make any sense to me. Some of them could be assumed as positive :huh:
 
I think it's the matter of taste at this point. Atleast in '89 Batman-Batman Returns with Keaton, the Dark messages were still there that left people unpleasant, especially the weirdness and darkness of B'Returns. The DKTrilogly still fell in the same realm as Batman to most. Still dark, but that's BATMAN.

Most fans think Reeve when they think Superman and they're in for a HELLUVA treat to see a more edgier take on the character. I believe that to be a difference and why the BO will show a more young crowd jumping on board with MOS in the world of computer graphics and CGI. It's a Superman for a modern-era. This is what makes Superman the King Daddy.
 
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