The Dark Knight Rises Why I think Rises will be better than TDK

[Optimus_Prime_]

Yeah, now that I think about, having Batman in the title makes it sound silly.

Really I like them both. It's just good he wasn't redundant with the names.

 

[El Payaso]

I actually think TAS is the only version of Batman where people dont constantly claim that Joker "stole the show"

Joker was in MOTP, but Batman was undeniably the best thing about that movie,IMO.

I think people claim Joker stole the show because he's flashy as hell. And people always get distracted by bright, pretty lights.

Yeah, thing is - and I know many fans are not aware of this - animation is a different beast.

Voice plus animation have a completely different effect. When you use an actor he, and he alone, is the one making it happen.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Well really no matter how good it is I think Prometheus will be the best summer film in a while

 

[TinkerTailor]

Well really no matter how good it is I think Prometheus will be the best summer film in a while

At this stage I'm even more terrified of being disappointed by that than I am of being disappointed by TDKR.

 

[Sionis]

In your opinion, maybe ^

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Ridley Scott knows his sh** with Sci-Fi. I can't say I'm too worried about the creator of Alien, Blade Runner disappointing me with Fassbender, Theron and Foster. I mean Nolan cites Scott and Blade Runner as major inspirations. Ridley Scott and H.G. Giger are the masters. The trailer just reminds me so much of why I love that guy. Just incredibly epic and over powering shots. Nolan could slow some of his camera work down a bit, even though he has Scott-esque scenes scattered throughout.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Nolan did once say he liked Michael Bay and unfortunately that shows up in his action scenes sometimes. The stadium collapsing was Bay-esque to me. I hate that "one guy outruns massive devastation stuff", reminds me too much of 2012 or ID4's escape scenes.

 

[TinkerTailor]

Ridley Scott knows his sh** with Sci-Fi. I can't say I'm too worried about the creator of Alien, Blade Runner disappointing me with Fassbender, Theron and Foster. I mean Nolan cites Scott and Blade Runner as major inspirations. Ridley Scott and H.G. Giger are the masters. The trailer just reminds me so much of why I love that guy. Just incredibly epic and over powering shots. Nolan could slow some of his camera work down a bit, even though he has Scott-esque scenes scattered throughout.

Yeah but at the time Scott was darting from Alien (a perfect perfect film) to Blade Runner he was on fine form. And now his form is patchy to say the least. It's always dangerous ground revisiting something as successful as a film like Alien, and by success I'm talking artistic rather than commercial. But yes, the director is (on his day) amazing, the cast are amazing, the world he's playing in is amazing, the trailer is amazing... this is what scares me. I'm setting myself up for a huge fall. t:

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Nolan did once say he liked Michael Bay and unfortunately that shows up in his action scenes sometimes. The stadium collapsing was Bay-esque to me. I hate that "one guy outruns massive devastation stuff", reminds me too much of 2012 or ID4's escape scenes.

He's not outrunning the devastation.

 

[gugumugats]

Nolan did once say he liked Michael Bay and unfortunately that shows up in his action scenes sometimes. The stadium collapsing was Bay-esque to me. I hate that "one guy outruns massive devastation stuff", reminds me too much of 2012 or ID4's escape scenes.

I think that Michael Bay does great action (his box office numbers don't lie) as simple/brainless as his filmmaking is. Armageddon was just on TV the other day, and I found myself glued to the screen. I will even admit to seeing the Transformers sequels more than once in the theaters.

BASH ME NOW FOR LIKING MICHAEL BAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kvz5]

That goodbye scene with Bruce and Liv in Armaggedon always makes me cry. I regret nothing.

 

[EliteF50]

Nolan did once say he liked Michael Bay and unfortunately that shows up in his action scenes sometimes. The stadium collapsing was Bay-esque to me. I hate that "one guy outruns massive devastation stuff", reminds me too much of 2012 or ID4's escape scenes.

Bay is a master at action. Those scenes are hard as hell to direct.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Nolan did once say he liked Michael Bay and unfortunately that shows up in his action scenes sometimes. The stadium collapsing was Bay-esque to me. I hate that "one guy outruns massive devastation stuff", reminds me too much of 2012 or ID4's escape scenes.

If that scene appeared Bay-esque to you, then I can only imagine what you thought of The Avengers' trailers thus far.

 

[gugumugats]

Bay is a master at action. Those scenes are hard as hell to direct.

And i thought I would be the only one to defend Bay. Yes, he truly is a master at action, and I just realized based on your comments that action scenes are hard as hell to direct.

Nolan did once say he liked Michael Bay and unfortunately that shows up in his action scenes sometimes. The stadium collapsing was Bay-esque to me. I hate that "one guy outruns massive devastation stuff", reminds me too much of 2012 or ID4's escape scenes.

I don't think its unfortunate that Nolan says he likes Michael Bay. I think they both have something in common in that they both strive for grandiosity in their set pieces. And Michael Bay is not all about explosions. He has a knack for camera work (even virtual camera work with CGI) that really brings you into the action.

think that the two filmmakers have a lot to learn from each other (bigger benefit for Bay though), and I sometimes dream of the day that these two would collaborate under the guidance of Spielberg or something to create the ultimate summer Hollywood blockbuster. I think the closest thing to a Bay/Nolan collaboration is Nolan/Snyder on Man of Steel. Both Snyder and Bay seem to have a thing for slow-motion (something that Nolan almost never relies on).

 

[NateHevens]

TDKR is a film wherein almost every decision revealed to have been made during production has left many, aside from the very hardcore fan base, scratching their heads. TDK on the other hand had almost everything going in it's favour. I don't know, I'm not placing any bets right now. The biggest thing for me is Chris Nolan's track record.

I disagree entirely. When I heard that Heath Ledger was playing the Joker, all I could think of was Brokeback Mountain. I honestly did not think Heath could pull it off until the trailer.

Now, unlike many, I was so glad he wasn't permawhite, but I wasn't happy with the casting choice.

Same for Aaron Eckhart as Harvey Dent/Two Face.

In both cases, my fears were proven to be utterly unfounded.

I had a lot of fears about TDK, in fact. Of all of them, though, the only fear of mine that was proven to be founded was Maggie Gyllenhall as Rachel Dawes. I don't like Maggie... both in looks and acting. She's not bad, just... not my style, I guess. Actually, truth be told, I don't get what people so dislike about Katie Holmes. Sure, she ain't the greatest actress in the world, and her acting was the least great of the cast in BB, but I really don't think she did a bad job and I think it was a huge mistake that Katie wasn't recast as Rachel in TDK.

And, quite frankly, I liked Rachel Dawes better as played by Katie Holmes. I connected more with Rachel in BB. Sorry, but I did. Maggie's Rachel was colder, somewhat crueler, not as good-looking, and had no where near the amount of chemistry with Christian Bale that Katie did (which is saying something, because Katie didn't have much chemistry with him, either... but she and Christian had a lot more than Maggie and Christian did). I wanted Bruce Wayne and Katie's Rachel to hook up. I didn't want Bruce and Maggie's Rachel to hook up at all.

I like Bane, but you're saying that he's a better villain than the Joker! Really? Joker is just iconic, Sorry, and in TDK Batman had the same screen time as Harvey, and the Joker, the problem that people have with it is that in the end the screen time was characted by those 3, i sincerelly don't have a problem with that and liked that the sequel focused more on the villain and Harvey

The Joker is much more iconic, but Bane is, IMO, the bigger threat to Batman because he's both a mental and physical obstacle, whereas the Joker was just a mental obstacle.

Oh come on, the story is very simple. Not bad, but simple. After having watched TDK you dont go 'wow what an unbelievably well written story'.
Ive read the comics.

I think you're underestimating the story, quite frankly. It wasn't the most complex story in the world, no. But for a comic book super hero movie? I'm pretty sure Nolan's Batman has the most complex story a DC or Marvel movie has ever had.

Yes you do. You go exactly like that.

BB was the opposite for me. the writing was quite obvious, repetitive, explainatory, unfunny when comedic and, at times, amateurish.

It was cheesey in a lot of places, but I thought BB was still really good.

Yeah, I like Bane more :/ To me the physical threat he poses is very powerful. In real life I find physical threats more intimidating than mental threats. I really fear for Batman in this movie. When I heard Riddler and Penguin rumors I shuddered and though, "please be Bane."

Agreed.

I think the Joker contradicted himself a bit too much. "Agent of chaos", "not a schemer", when clearly he was the biggest schemer of all. And oddly enough all of his plans go off without a hitch :/ "Divert to lower 5th"... No, take the oncoming traffic lane, it's clearly open. "Rack em up rack em up rack em up." You knew exactly where the air cav would approach from, what altitude it would have, and where the armored car would emerge? "I just want my phone call." All cops killed or incapacitated, you and Lau left unscathed :/

But that was the point. I felt that was the whole point of the Joker. He was a child... a child with a grudge against the world.

It's these inconsistencies that give rise to the Joker having too much clout in TDK for me.

And yet the inconsistencies are what made the Joker, IMO.

And Dent, come on... Those burns... If the focus is going to be on these characters they need to be closer to air tight.

As if the acid in the comics was in any way more realistic. I actually like the way Nolan did it with the burns. Unrealistic? Yes. But something I don't have trouble seeing as theoretically possible? Absolutely.

That's just me though. I know the acting was very good, but it's a Batman movie, not a villain movie.

Actually, TDK very much was a villain movie. BB was the introduction to the Bat. TDK, on the other hand, was all about escalation (a theme which TDKR will continue... think about it: Bane is the ultimate escalation... I doubt it could get any worse). Since it was about escalation, it was focused more on the desperation of the mob to get rid of Batman... as Alfred says:

"You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation, they turned to a man they didn't fully understand."

So it absolutely was a villain movie, IMO.

And as powerful and ever-present as the Joker was, I never felt he was a real threat to BATMAN, more society. It’s hard to convince Bruce Wayne that Gotham is ever beyond saving. I don’t think the way to defeating Batman runs through Gotham. It runs through Bruce Wayne. Bane knows that. Sorry for the epic post.

This I agree with.

Here's where I think fans get their panties in a bunch. While I respect and acknowledge The Joker's 'icon' status (over 80 years of experience), he's limited in the physical aspect.

Is Bane more iconic, accomplished, adored, etc than The Joker? No, of course not.

However, is Bane the more well-rounded threat? Absolutely. Bane is the dark twisted mirror image of Bruce Wayne.

The Joker is the twister mirror image of Batman, but I think you're right about Bane and Bruce.

Eh I wouldn't say that particularly..most everyone still was second guessing the Joker all until that first trailer was released. For me, it always seems that Nolan has done things that really caught me off guard at first and then it's something I end up loving at first.

- My first reaction to the BB trailer back in the day was met with my own ignorance ("Wait a minute...Batman's a ninja?")

Yeah. I thought he was a samurai?

- The tumblr

I always loved the Tumblr, but that's just me...

- Joker's makeup (though I was the only one I knew of at the time on board with him not being perma-white

*raises hand* We should've met then...

- The new batsuit

I love it. I love the Batsuit. But I'm weird like that.

All in all I'm going to take TDKR as a fine chapter in my favorite movie series to date.

Exactly.

But it's what they do, how they interact and progress that makes the characters great in TDK. So isn't that just good narrative writing in general?

I'm not going to get into a Bane vs Joker argument, because we've all got our opinions, but one thing I will say is that I kind of like the fact that The Joker isn't a physical threat. He takes Bruce's greatest moral decision (to not kill) and twists it thereby making Bruce complicit in the havoc that he wreaks, because they both know that if Bruce wanted to he could stop him with one act.

Very true, but Bane can do this, too, and that's the point. Batman could kill the Joker in one swift movement if he wanted to. The Joker very nearly broke Bruce Wayne mentally. He succeeded in breaking Harvey. But he was no physical threat.

Bane can and, it seems, does break Bruce mentally, thereby succeeding where the Joker failed, in a sense, but also breaks Bruce physically.

The Joker was a threat to Gotham society, but not Bruce directly. Bane is both. That's what makes Bane a greater villain.

Keep in mind I'm saying this as someone who's all-time favorite villain is the Joker.

BB was a very solid Batman origin film. The issues with BB were Katie Holmes and the way the 3rd act felt rushed IMO.

See... I don't get it. What was so wrong with Katie Holmes? She was better than Maggie Gyllenhall, at least IMO.

TDK took BB to another level into more of the Batman crime film and it worked spectacularly IMO and Ledgers Joker was the icing on the cake for that film.

Agreed.

And the stilted dialogue, and the fact that it was very dull up to the point that Bruce becomes Batman (IMO).

Disagree. I was enthralled by the origin. I thought it was brilliant.

I couldnt agree more. Thats why when she was all blowed up I actually loved it... and as much as people seem to dislike Katie Holmes I would have rather had her return for TDK just for continuity...

Agreed.

I never said it was JUST about joker but it focused quite a bit on him. More so than Begins did with scarecrow

And for good reason. That's what TDK was about.

 

[The Morningstar]

That goodbye scene with Bruce and Liv in Armaggedon always makes me cry. I regret nothing.

I always get choked up at the scene where they land at the end, and Chick's son comes running towards him.

 

[Lord]

Katie Holmes didn't return because her husband, Tom Cruise, didn't like the idea of her kissing others, lame, i know

 

[Broker]

Katie Holmes didn't return because her husband, Tom Cruise, didn't like the idea of her kissing others, lame, i know

That's just a stupid ruumour. She's had parts since then that have had her kissing other people (as has he I might add...)

 

[Lord]

I know for fact that Nolan likes BB more then TDK and Wally like TDK more then BB.

How do you know Nolan likes Batman Begins more than The Dark Knight?
Do you even have a link to that?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I disagree entirely. When I heard that Heath Ledger was playing the Joker, all I could think of was Brokeback Mountain. I honestly did not think Heath could pull it off until the trailer.

Now, unlike many, I was so glad he wasn't permawhite, but I wasn't happy with the casting choice.

Same for Aaron Eckhart as Harvey Dent/Two Face.

In both cases, my fears were proven to be utterly unfounded.

I had a lot of fears about TDK, in fact. Of all of them, though, the only fear of mine that was proven to be founded was Maggie Gyllenhall as Rachel Dawes. I don't like Maggie... both in looks and acting. She's not bad, just... not my style, I guess. Actually, truth be told, I don't get what people so dislike about Katie Holmes. Sure, she ain't the greatest actress in the world, and her acting was the least great of the cast in BB, but I really don't think she did a bad job and I think it was a huge mistake that Katie wasn't recast as Rachel in TDK.

And, quite frankly, I liked Rachel Dawes better as played by Katie Holmes. I connected more with Rachel in BB. Sorry, but I did. Maggie's Rachel was colder, somewhat crueler, not as good-looking, and had no where near the amount of chemistry with Christian Bale that Katie did (which is saying something, because Katie didn't have much chemistry with him, either... but she and Christian had a lot more than Maggie and Christian did). I wanted Bruce Wayne and Katie's Rachel to hook up. I didn't want Bruce and Maggie's Rachel to hook up at all.

I couldn't agree more Dark. While Maggie did a solid job, I found Katie to have the better chemistry with Bale. Don't get me wrong, Holmes' acting wasn't top-tier but it was more than enough to keep up with the likes of Murphy and Bale.

The Joker is much more iconic, but Bane is, IMO, the bigger threat to Batman because he's both a mental and physical obstacle, whereas the Joker was just a mental obstacle.

I think you're underestimating the story, quite frankly. It wasn't the most complex story in the world, no. But for a comic book super hero movie? I'm pretty sure Nolan's Batman has the most complex story a DC or Marvel movie has ever had.

Undeniably, yes.

It wasn't the most intricate plot in cinematic history, but the film still a upheld a respectful story with great dialogue, characterization and subtext, which is more than I can say for 85% of Marvel's filmography (and most of the crap that Hollywood is releasing nowadays).

The Joker is the twister mirror image of Batman, but I think you're right about Bane and Bruce.

I concur. Although Bane doesn't possess an alter ego, Bruce Wayne and Bane share alot of the same qualities.

I always loved the Tumblr, but that's just me...

I love it. I love the Batsuit. But I'm weird like that.

Me too, I adored both.

Very true, but Bane can do this, too, and that's the point. Batman could kill the Joker in one swift movement if he wanted to. The Joker very nearly broke Bruce Wayne mentally. He succeeded in breaking Harvey. But he was no physical threat.

Bane can and, it seems, does break Bruce mentally, thereby succeeding where the Joker failed, in a sense, but also breaks Bruce physically.

The Joker was a threat to Gotham society, but not Bruce directly. Bane is both. That's what makes Bane a greater villain.

Keep in mind I'm saying this as someone who's all-time favorite villain is the Joker.

Thank you, I don't know why other fans seem to neglect Bane's abilities and threat level (when comparing him to The Joker).

 

[The Joker]

I couldn't agree more Dark. While Maggie did a solid job, I found Katie to have the better chemistry with Bale. Don't get me wrong, Holmes' acting wasn't top-tier but it was more than enough to keep up with the likes of Murphy and Bale.

Funny how Holmes got nominated for a Razzie for playing Rachel lol.

Personally I didn't like her. She stands out as the weak link of Begins. Especially when she is surrounded by clearly superior actors.

 

[gugumugats]

Simply put: Nolan wouldn't come back to the series unless he knew he could top TDK.

WORD

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Funny how Holmes got nominated for a Razzie for playing Rachel lol.

Personally I didn't like her. She stands out as the weak link of Begins. Especially when she is surrounded by clearly superior actors.

I know,

There's no doubt in my mind that Rachel was the weakest link/character of the series, but it comes down to which actress annoyed me less.

Maggie is the better actress out of the two, unfortunately her voice and demeanor irritated me.

 

[NateHevens]

Funny how Holmes got nominated for a Razzie for playing Rachel lol.

Personally I didn't like her. She stands out as the weak link of Begins. Especially when she is surrounded by clearly superior actors.

Rachel Dawes was the weak link in general, quite frankly. The character was a bad idea to begin with, IMO. Neither Katie nor Maggie had very much to work with. I just think Katie pulled Rachel Dawes off better. Katie's Rachel was just more likeable to me.

But... again... I also like the TDK batsuit, the Tumblr, I was always glad the Joker wasn't permawhite, I actually liked some of the one-liners in BB, and I liked that TDK was more of a Joker/mob movie than a Batman movie. So I'm probably an odd one around these parts...

 

[Patty]

That's because Katie is(or was) more likable. Before Tommy got his claws into her she was cute as a button and a good actress (maybe not great, but good enough to do Rachel... obviously Nolan thought that too.)