The Dark Knight Rises Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

[titansupes]

Just wanted to pipe in and thank Anno Domini and BatLobsterRises for their eloquence. Personally, I grew weary of defending TDKR long ago.

I do consider myself to be an individual of some intelligence, perceptive and discerning enough, with a degree of emotional maturity. I can't, intellectually, deny a physical response. I've seen films that have given me chills. I've seen films that have thrilled me so that I've had the exhaustive rush of actual physical experience. And I've seen films that made my eyes well up and chest heave with emotion. I'd never seen a film that made me do all three. Until I saw TDKR.

Is it beyond criticism?
Obviously not.
I like to compare it to another of my favorite films, The Godfather. I smile, and wince a bit, at Talia's death scene, as I do when Sonny's devastating hook during his beatdown of Carlo misses by a foot. I consider the absurd, baroque machinations of the assassination of Sonny, with a half dozen likely points of failure, and compare it to every other actual mob hit in mid-Twentieth Century America, where the target was simply gunned down in or just outside a well-frequented haunt, and compare it to the likelyhood of Gotham's entire police force being sent into the sewers. Do these fatal flaws diminish my enjoyment of the films? Not one bit.

If Citizen Kane had to stand up to the scrutiny of The Dark Knight Rises, it would be dismissed after the first scene. Charles Foster Kane whispers his last word, "Rosebud", in an empty room. A nurse enters, but only after hearing the crash of a snowglobe, which has fallen from the dead man's hand to the floor.
Rest of the movie?
Plot hole.

Nailed it.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Watching it right now and still feel the same way about it. Very entertaining but flawed movie, just like the first two films in this trilogy.

I feel bad for some of the fans here who spent years wasting their energy on intense plot speculation. Then when the movie came out and had a different story than some of them speculated, they end up disappointed.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Lol. I wonder if it would be the same as TDK if the plot was different what some speculated?

 

[Victarion]

Lol. I wonder if it would be the same as TDK if the plot was different what some speculated?

What kind of TDK speculation did you read? All I recall was Batman giving Joker his scars during the prologue. Thankfully that never happened!

 

[Anno_Domini]

Why I asked the question....only saying I wonder if that were the case if the situation was the same with TDK.

 

[Ryan]

I'll be honest. I went into Batman Begins with no expectation and instantly loved it. With TDK, I actually didn't know how I felt at the end of it. I thought it would have had a more similar vibe to Batman Begins, and when it didn't, I wasn't sure how I felt about that. As time went on though,I stopped the comparison to BB, and I feel its the best superhero movie that's ever been made. With TDKR, it was pretty well everything I thought it would be, and for me that was a let down. Its probably the only film of the series that I find I dislike the more I watch it. I honestly didn't feel there was anything unique about it or anything that truly surprised me. I felt they did an amazing job of reimagining Bane in terms design and protrayal and I liked Anne's protrayal of Catwoman. I'm a Batman fan and to me Bruce's character is secondary. While I enjoyed Bruce's/Batman story in BB, I was ok with it as it was an origin story. But for me TDKR, just didn't have enough "Batman" moments for me (which was actually a critique I had for TDK). I guess in short, it wasn't plot holes that made TDKR feel like a disappointment to me. It was the lack of originality that truly let me down. I read alot of others posts about how much they love it, and I think thats great. It would be stupid of me to multiquote there 'feelings" about a film and try to prove to them why they shouldn't like it. As the Joker said, sometimes we "just do things". Some loved it and some didn't. I fall in the "didn't" category. Soon to be quoted.

 

[milost]

TDKR didn't really do anything for me either. I was disappointed with the end result, especially with all that hype. I guess it didn't fall victim to the threequel curse where it was actually a financial success, but the movie just left a bad taste in my mouth for some reason. I love Batman Begins and The Dark Knight is probably my favorite Batman film, but TDKR just frustrates me. I just don't like what it tries to convey or what it does. Everything, from the plot to the situations just feels weird. Only thing I liked and enjoyed throughly was Catwoman, it's just too bad she's in this sort of movie. That, and there needed to be more of her.

It feels like a different movie compared to The Dark Knight, and especially Batman Begins, even when they try to throw in all those cliched references from Ra's to the flashbacks of Two-Face. It's jot just script or story, but the setting and characters as well. Just couldn't get into it. It's like everything changed. I've since moved on. For me, personally, it ends with the Dark Knight.

You can't please everyone I guess.

 

[RustyCage]

Regarding emotional response: Different things effect different people differently. I try not to judge a movie based on emotion for that reason.

Personally, my most notable emotional response to TDKR was that gut-sinking feeling of knowing something terrible was going to happen when Batman is fighting Bane for the first time. I knew what was coming, but that didn't stop the power of the scene. Pretty sure I didn't blink until it was long over.

The guilty, sad look on Selina's face as she watches, and the sober recruits standing around staring (I swear you can feel them swelling up with a mix of fear at first, and then silent, relieved pride) really rubbed that in. The whole thing is the best bit of wordless acting of the whole film - something I felt it needed more of.

Most people get sad over Alfred's scenes, but I was more distracted by how off-beat that stuff was for his character. It was tough to accept his reasoning or his dramatics. I'll try not to be any harder on it than that, because I love Michael Caine as Alfred.

Most people also get emotional over the scene with Batman flying off with the bomb. But I guess I've just seen that trick done so many times that it's become ordinary to me. My feeling throughout the scene was 'You've seen this before, a million times in cartoons, anime, comics, and even with the Adam West show, but this is Chris Nolan, and knowing him, he could kill Batman off right now, but will he?'

It was more suspended fascination with the idea that Nolan might do something that controversial than it was fear or sorrow for Batman -- well, sprinkle in some embarrassment at Batman STILL making that vacant expression he made throughout the whole movie. lol

 

[RustyCage]

TDKR didn't really do anything for me either. I was disappointed with the end result, especially with all that hype. I guess it didn't fall victim to the threequel curse where it was actually a financial success, but the movie just left a bad taste in my mouth for some reason. I love Batman Begins and The Dark Knight is probably my favorite Batman film, but TDKR just frustrates me. I just don't like what it tries to convey or what it does. Everything, from the plot to the situations just feels weird. Only thing I liked and enjoyed throughly was Catwoman, it's just too bad she's in this sort of movie. That, and there needed to be more of her.

It feels like a different movie compared to The Dark Knight, and especially Batman Begins, even when they try to throw in all those cliched references from Ra's to the flashbacks of Two-Face. It's jot just script or story, but the setting and characters as well. Just couldn't get into it. It's like everything changed. I've since moved on. For me, personally, it ends with the Dark Knight.

You can't please everyone I guess.

I have my problems with the film, but I thought the Ra's hallucination was one of the most beautiful things that happened in the trilogy.

Gotta give that bit credit too. Goosebumps. 'Is he really immortal? Did he survive the crash?' And then it turns out Bruce was just having a fever dream again, as he was with the bats in Begins. Love it.

The flashbacks, however, threw off the momentum of the film to me, wasted precious seconds of what could've been newness.

 

[Anno_Domini]

well, sprinkle in some embarrassment at Batman STILL making that vacant expression he made throughout the whole movie. lol

I don't know why you keep bringing up something that Bale could not change, lol.

 

[BatLobster]

I have my problems with the film, but I thought the Ra's hallucination was one of the most beautiful things that happened in the trilogy.

Gotta give that bit credit too. Goosebumps. 'Is he really immortal? Did he survive the crash?' And then it turns out Bruce was just having a fever dream again, as he was with the bats in Begins. Love it.

The flashbacks, however, threw off the momentum of the film to me, wasted precious seconds of what could've been newness.

Another thing about that Ra's hallucination...it felt very reminiscent of Inception. In that Bruce has a revelation in a dream state that he takes back with him to reality (that Ra's al Ghul has a child). Of course he's only half right about it, but I thought it was an interesting connection there.

And yeah, great scene. I love how they shot it in a way that visually mirrored their first meeting in Begins.

Damn man, I love TDKR. I really do.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Didn't really get an Inception vibe, lol, but if you're saying that as a compliment, then more props for ya

I loved the flashback scenes myself...really added something to the entire legacy of Ra's al Ghul.

Speaking of Ra's....anyone feel like that character will show up in Arrow after last week's episode? Malcolm Merlyn talked about meeting a man that helped him show the way of life and how to make it better for everyone.

 

[RustyCage]

I don't know why you keep bringing up something that Bale could not change, lol.

Because it bothers me.

They could have made an effort to address it, but they just didn't. It's puzzling.

 

[RustyCage]

Another thing about that Ra's hallucination...it felt very reminiscent of Inception. In that Bruce has a revelation in a dream state that he takes back with him to reality (that Ra's al Ghul has a child). Of course he's only half right about it, but I thought it was an interesting connection there.

And yeah, great scene. I love how they shot it in a way that visually mirrored their first meeting in Begins.

Damn man, I love TDKR. I really do.

Yeah, it's a joy catching all of these little things.

Good call with the Inception comparison. I hadn't even considered that. It reminded me of BTAS for some reason, but I can't place why...

I'm gonna tell my wife about that next time we watch. She discovered Nolan through Inception before I showed her Batman. It's her favorite film. t:

 

[BatLobster]

Didn't really get an Inception vibe, lol, but if you're saying that as a compliment, then more props for ya

I loved the flashback scenes myself...really added something to the entire legacy of Ra's al Ghul.

Speaking of Ra's....anyone feel like that character will show up in Arrow after last week's episode? Malcolm Merlyn talked about meeting a man that helped him show the way of life and how to make it better for everyone.

I did mean it as a compliment . I tend to enjoy the little connective links between all of Nolan's films.

And yeah, Ra's is just an amazing character. I'm still amazed that they were able to do him such justice and make him feel like this larger than life entity and even address the idea of his immortality without using a Lazarus Pit. It really worked tremendously, and Liam Neeson was perfect.

I don't watch Arrow, but if Ra's turned up on that show...I'd definitely tune in for that, haha.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Because it bothers me.

They could have made an effort to address it, but they just didn't. It's puzzling.

Hahaha, it bothered me too, but only at first in TDK before I found out that the mask was just uncomfortable to Bale, but kudos to the man for not asking for a different suit(as Bale did say it was way worse for the BB suit though).

I don't know how it could have been addressed though in-film. To mention anything people would only ask why Fox didn't make him a new suit, lol.

 

[RustyCage]

The only actor that could hold a candle to Neeson's Ra's is MAYBE Jason Isaacs. Maybe.

But I don't think I'd even want him to at this point. It was just so well done between Begins and Rises.

 

[RustyCage]

Hahaha, it bothered me too, but only at first in TDK before I found out that the mask was just uncomfortable to Bale, but kudos to the man for not asking for a different suit(as Bale did say it was way worse for the BB though).

I don't know how it could have been addressed though in-film. To mention anything people would only ask why Fox didn't make him a new suit, lol.

I was actually hoping for a new suit. Would've given them a chance to fix the problem and let Bale sound/look the part again.

Also, the art designers on the team are freaking amazing and it would've been a blast to see a new Batman look from them.

Such a shame!

 

[redfirebird2008]

I tend to enjoy the little connective links between all of Nolan's films.

Have y'all discussed the Prestige connection in TDKR? Jonathan Nolan talked about it recently.

 

[BatLobster]

Have y'all discussed the Prestige connection in TDKR? Jonathan Nolan talked about it recently.

Bwah? Link?

 

[Anno_Domini]

And yeah, Ra's is just an amazing character. I'm still amazed that they were able to do him such justice and make him feel like this larger than life entity and even address the idea of his immortality without using a Lazarus Pit. It really worked tremendously, and Liam Neeson was perfect.

Oh yah, the way Nolan brought in this realistic idea for Ra's, the League, the Lazarus Pit...it was such a smart way in keeping Nolan's universe that he gave Batman while also giving so much respect to the character of Ra's al Ghul and the most important aspects of the character. The League of Shadows was Nolan's "Big Evil" to his Batman.

I don't watch Arrow, but if Ra's turned up on that show...I'd definitely tune in for that, haha.

I will let you know if I find about anything with Ra's showing up in the future

 

[RustyCage]

Have y'all discussed the Prestige connection in TDKR? Jonathan Nolan talked about it recently.

I remember him saying the trilogy was like the three parts of the magic act. The pledge, the turn, etc. I don't remember if he explained how, but I'm trying to put together how in my head right now.

Unfortunately, what I'm coming up with is kinda vague... wouldn't mind talking it through with you guys, for sure. t:

I guess you could say Bruce makes a pledge in Begins when he sets out to become Batman and starts his war. The turn is when he lies and takes the fall for Harvey...

 

[Anno_Domini]

I was actually hoping for a new suit. Would've given them a chance to fix the problem and let Bale sound/look the part again.

Also, the art designers on the team are freaking amazing and it would've been a blast to see a new Batman look from them.

Such a shame!

I wouldn't have minded a new suit at all though, but since it didn't happen, I just look past Bale's face because it's not the guy's fault at all, haha.

I guess a new suit is never made because it sticks with this modern day knight idea that Nolan has of his Batman though. But, I'm still on the boat on wishing Bruce brought out a new suit once he returned to Gotham City the second time(Bane should've broke his one and only suit of the TDK suit, imo).

 

[Anno_Domini]

I remember him saying the trilogy was like the three parts of the magic act. The pledge, the turn, etc. I don't remember if he explained how, but I'm trying to put together how in my head right now.

Unfortunately, what I'm coming up with is kinda vague... wouldn't mind talking it through with you guys, for sure. t:

I guess you could say Bruce makes a pledge in Begins when he sets out to become Batman and starts his war. The turn is when he lies and takes the fall for Harvey...

The prestige being Bruce finally making Batman the "face" that Gotham City needed while setting up for the future of Gotham such as passing the mantle to Robin John Blake.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Bwah? Link?

Quote from Jonah in a recent Empire interview:

"One of my favourite scenes is when John tells Bruce how he knew he was Batman. It’s like that scene in The Prestige where the little kid sees through Christian’s trick. Little kids, they don’t have any illusions, they just see the truth of the situation. I feel there’s a kind of spiritual connection between the two movies there."

http://www.empireonline.com/interviews/interview.asp?IID=1609