Why is Thor considered so powerful?

[Horrorfan]

I am sorry for coming off like an ash. I understand what you mean about ..

But if you look at past issues of Thor ... like REAL old ones. Thor is hard to take down. And I remember one ish where him and Hulk square off(I have it, but I'm at work.) Hulk beats hhim bad, but it comes to a stalemate. Once Thor's (damn I forget what its called.) Anger kicked in he and Hulk were just pounding each other and nothing. And Thor dropped the hammer ... didn't use it once Hulk said ... "Thor weak without hammer." Oh yeah it was Thor 385. Hulk claimed victory, and Thor was beaten and battered.

Not your fault, I probably should have phased it that way in the first place!

 

[Mr. Green]

But if Hulk has had Thor in stalemates, he is NOT as powerful as a god should be imo.

But you think Ultimate Thor IS?

616 Hulk would kill all of the Ultimates including Ultimate Thor and Ultimate Hulk.

Hulk has unlimited strength. Thor is a badass and has come close to beating a Banner Hulk in a Thor issue.

Read Thor: Disassembled.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

616 Hulk would kill all of the Ultimates including Ultimate Thor and Ultimate Hulk.

Heh, could you say that again? I think I had something crazy in my ear. If you really believe this then I have some lovely ocean property to sell you....in Nevada.

 

[Xofenroht]

Oh Hulk is helluva strong- but should he really be on the level of a god?

To me, a god should be probably the (or one of if there are many gods) most powerful being around by a long margin, not being taken to a draw by a freak accident of nature.

Well, you do know that each god is different? Just because the gods seem all powerful in one pantheon doesn't mean that they will be in the next. There have been freaks of nature to conquer gods before, Hulk isn't the only one.

 

[Horrorfan]

I didn't say ultimate Thor was more powerful? I just said I have see him do impressive things...and also, the Hulk was defeated by the ultimates but it was an awesome battle.

But I was speaking from my own view on what a god is....I guess to me those type of gods who could be conqured by beasts like the Hulk or freak or whatever you wanna call it is a 'lesser god', more like super human rather than all powerful entity.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Thor is actually quite powerful for a comic book character. He's easily one of the most powerful in the Marvel universe when he's written as well as he should be, right up there with the Silver Surfer and others of that caliber. I think you're overestimating what a god (with a lower-case "g") should be. Thor's easily one of the most powerful comic book gods around when you measure him against Marvel's Ares, Hercules, Balder, or pretty much any other god. He doesn't wield total control over the forces of life and death or anything (unless he's the beefed-up version of King Thor from the "Ragnarok" storyline) but he's still a virtual juggernaut in terms of his weight class.

The reason the Hulk gets to stalemate Thor has to do with context. Thor is a warrior god from a warrior race. He holds honor in combat in extremely high regard, which translates to his fighting an opponent on roughly equal ground. Hulk believes he's the strongest one there is; in Thor's mind, that means Thor has to pit his own strength against the Hulk, not the full breadth of his powers against the Hulk's single power of strength. Thor could easily sap the gamma energy out of the Hulk with Mjolnir and turn him back into Banner, just as the Surfer did in a couple of their fights. But that would be dishonorable in Thor's mind. When the Hulk tells Thor to throw Mjolnir away or otherwise disable it because he's not being fair, Thor doesn't call the Hulk on what a little girl he's being; he complies and willfully neglects using Mjolnir for that fight. That's the way Thor operates. When he's got all of his powers focused on an enemy, he's well beyond the Hulk, who's basically a one-trick pony (albeit a really good one) with pure strength and brute force. Thor can approach the Hulk's strength (though he can't match it except in some extreme circumstances), AND he's also got an array of powers versatile enough to match a herald of Galactus. If that's not powerful to you, I'm curious to know what is.

Also, Thor's had varying degrees of super-speed and reflexes. Back in the Silver Age, he demonstrated extreme super-speed, like on the level of Superman and his ilk. Since then, however, he's gradually decreased in speed until he's now roughly around Spider-Man's level in reflexes, speed, etc. He's still capable of flying beyond light speed with Mjolnir (or the Odinpower if we're talking King Thor), though. Unfortunately, travel speed doesn't equate to reflex speed.

 

[Horrorfan]

Thor is actually quite powerful for a comic book character. He's easily one of the most powerful in the Marvel universe when he's written as well as he should be, right up there with the Silver Surfer and others of that caliber. I think you're overestimating what a god (with a lower-case "g") should be. Thor's easily one of the most powerful comic book gods around when you measure him against Marvel's Ares, Hercules, Balder, or pretty much any other god. He doesn't wield total control over the forces of life and death or anything (unless he's the beefed-up version of King Thor from the "Ragnarok" storyline) but he's still a virtual juggernaut in terms of his weight class.

The reason the Hulk gets to stalemate Thor has to do with context. Thor is a warrior god from a warrior race. He holds honor in combat in extremely high regard, which translates to his fighting an opponent on roughly equal ground. Hulk believes he's the strongest one there is; in Thor's mind, that means Thor has to pit his own strength against the Hulk, not the full breadth of his powers against the Hulk's single power of strength. Thor could easily sap the gamma energy out of the Hulk with Mjolnir and turn him back into Banner, just as the Surfer did in a couple of their fights. But that would be dishonorable in Thor's mind. When the Hulk tells Thor to throw Mjolnir away or otherwise disable it because he's not being fair, Thor doesn't call the Hulk on what a little girl he's being; he complies and willfully neglects using Mjolnir for that fight. That's the way Thor operates. When he's got all of his powers focused on an enemy, he's well beyond the Hulk, who's basically a one-trick pony (albeit a really good one) with pure strength and brute force. Thor can approach the Hulk's strength (though he can't match it except in some extreme circumstances), AND he's also got an array of powers versatile enough to match a herald of Galactus. If that's not powerful to you, I'm curious to know what is.

Also, Thor's had varying degrees of super-speed and reflexes. Back in the Silver Age, he demonstrated extreme super-speed, like on the level of Superman and his ilk. Since then, however, he's gradually decreased in speed until he's now roughly around Spider-Man's level in reflexes, speed, etc. He's still capable of flying beyond light speed with Mjolnir (or the Odinpower if we're talking King Thor), though. Unfortunately, travel speed doesn't equate to reflex speed.

That was a good post. I just thought gods couldn't die either. Although he does come back a lot too. Now to get all fan boy on those with more knowledge on both than me; who takes it, Supes or Thor? Not a fist fight, but all out power battle.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Norse gods can die. The reasoning behind it is actually the linchpin of the "Ragnarok" arc that ended Thor's last series, in fact. Think of it this way: as I mentioned, Thor is a warrior god and the Norse gods are a warrior race. What good is a warrior who goes into battle knowing he's not risking anything? The Norse gods need to be able to die in order to be the Norse gods, basically.

If we're talking about all of the characters' respective powers, as they stand in their most recognizable forms, I'd give it to Superman about 6 times out of 10. The only reason for that is his speed. Super-speed is one of the absolute most potent abilities in a fight. Superman has it; Thor doesn't. It's as simple as that, really. I've seen people argue ways around the super-speed problem, but my line of thought is still basically that although Supes has a weakness to magic and Thor packs magic power to spare, Thor's still gotta hit Superman with those magic blasts, which is no small feat with the huge, gaping chasm of a speed difference that exists between them.

If we're talking about the most recent, empowered incarnations of each character, meaning the present Superman just before he lost his powers in Infinite Crisis and King Thor before he "died" at the end of "Ragnarok," Thor would take it 10 times out of 10. bad place, probably 11 times out of 10, just 'cause Thor said so. He dropped his honor schtick and gained practically inconceivable magic power, so Superman would basically stand no chance whatsoever.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

When the Hulk tells Thor to throw Mjolnir away or otherwise disable it because he's not being fair, Thor doesn't call the Hulk on what a little girl he's being; he complies and willfully neglects using Mjolnir for that fight.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Nice hidden dig there. On that other note, it says that Thor is on Hulk's strength level on base.

 

[KingOfDreams]

I love the Ultimate version, not too familiar with the 616 version

I think I die a little inside when I read statements like this.

 

[Horrorfan]

I think I die a little inside when I read statements like this.

Yeah I am sorry I like a well written cinematic comic with lots of political intrigue



But this Ragnarock storyline sounds cool...is it out already in tpb?

 

[wobbly]

Heh, could you say that again? I think I had something crazy in my ear. If you really believe this then I have some lovely ocean property to sell you....in Nevada.

According to the 'official' strength levels given to the Ultimate strong-guys, the 616 versions are around 8 to 10 times stronger, so saying 616 Hulk could wipe the floor with them isn't a bad assessment based on that. Of course this is still up in the air until they really do meet (the zombieverse storyline doesnt count). Only a matter of time until they do, especially as that Zombie storyline has easilly opened up the door for a future crossover.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

I think I die a little inside when I read statements like this.

I love the Ultimate version, never even heard of the 616 version. What does "616" mean anyway?

Dead yet?

 

[KingOfDreams]

Yeah I am sorry I like a well written cinematic comic with lots of political intrigue



But this Ragnarock storyline sounds cool...is it out already in tpb?

I'm not exactly faulting you for what you like but it saddens me when people know more about the Ultimate books/characters than they do the 616 books/characters. It's partially Marvel's fault I guess. I've never really liked the Ultimate books because by and large it's all stuff I've already seen tweaked a bit. And I know Ultimates is supposed to be fairly different but I've read a couple issues in the shop and it's never grabbed me. Anyway, Ragnorak is in tpb.

 

[Horrorfan]

I'm not exactly faulting you for what you like but it saddens me when people know more about the Ultimate books/characters than they do the 616 books/characters. It's partially Marvel's fault I guess. I've never really liked the Ultimate books because by and large it's all stuff I've already seen tweaked a bit. And I know Ultimates is supposed to be fairly different but I've read a couple issues in the shop and it's never grabbed me. Anyway, Ragnorak is in tpb.

I know you weren't but the thing is, to me, in the 616 (and to be honest, I have read marvel for well over a decade and still don't know why it is called that on the net) universe, not all the characters are that interesting.

I loved Ultimate, because it put a new, modern spin on things that made it simply more relevant to today's society. We live in a different world to what it was when the 616 universe was created, and these titles reflect that. I am not saying it's better or worse, but the fact is, it got people interested in Marvel again. It got me back into reading after a few years of absense after I got tired of over convoluted stories that relied too much on the past events. Not honouring them, but having to be careful over every detail, and requiring years worth of backstory to get the best out of them.

In the MU, the Avengers seemed too DC-ised to me....ie bunch of guys in spandex beating up supervillains who all got along in a cushy mansion, were loved by the public and had a butler even. That is unfair of me, since I never read it, and it might not be like that at all...but thats how it seeemed to me.

But the Ultimates came along and made me go WOW. It had everything. Political intrigue that was very much a sign of the times we live in, giving it a much deeper level that I felt the Avengers probably didn't have before, as opposed to X Men, which always had more under the surface. I LOVE that the Team are more or less estranged, with different relationships all barely held together by the government paycheck. I love that Fury isn't a clean cut good guy. I love that the team could be Government lackeys (I havent read the last arc, probably wont till the TPB). I love the fact that they added things that are actually in character with the 616 versions (for example, I could so see Thor being pissed at Bush over the enviroment, and being a laid back beer guzzler who digs groupies, and I could see Cap as a very fair guy but who has steel morals and a bad ash attitude when needed). I love that Banner became the hulk again out of insecurity. It's the touches that ground it in reality and make them INTERESTING.

I'm sorry if you don't like that, but I'm tired of the stigma that because it came first, 616 is automatically inferior. It isn't that way at all, and if it got people interested in comics again, or for me, reintroduced me to them , it can't be a bad thing at all.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Thor is actually quite powerful for a comic book character. He's easily one of the most powerful in the Marvel universe when he's written as well as he should be, right up there with the Silver Surfer and others of that caliber. I think you're overestimating what a god (with a lower-case "g") should be. Thor's easily one of the most powerful comic book gods around when you measure him against Marvel's Ares, Hercules, Balder, or pretty much any other god. He doesn't wield total control over the forces of life and death or anything (unless he's the beefed-up version of King Thor from the "Ragnarok" storyline) but he's still a virtual juggernaut in terms of his weight class.

The reason the Hulk gets to stalemate Thor has to do with context. Thor is a warrior god from a warrior race. He holds honor in combat in extremely high regard, which translates to his fighting an opponent on roughly equal ground. Hulk believes he's the strongest one there is; in Thor's mind, that means Thor has to pit his own strength against the Hulk, not the full breadth of his powers against the Hulk's single power of strength. Thor could easily sap the gamma energy out of the Hulk with Mjolnir and turn him back into Banner, just as the Surfer did in a couple of their fights. But that would be dishonorable in Thor's mind. When the Hulk tells Thor to throw Mjolnir away or otherwise disable it because he's not being fair, Thor doesn't call the Hulk on what a little girl he's being; he complies and willfully neglects using Mjolnir for that fight. That's the way Thor operates. When he's got all of his powers focused on an enemy, he's well beyond the Hulk, who's basically a one-trick pony (albeit a really good one) with pure strength and brute force. Thor can approach the Hulk's strength (though he can't match it except in some extreme circumstances), AND he's also got an array of powers versatile enough to match a herald of Galactus. If that's not powerful to you, I'm curious to know what is.

Also, Thor's had varying degrees of super-speed and reflexes. Back in the Silver Age, he demonstrated extreme super-speed, like on the level of Superman and his ilk. Since then, however, he's gradually decreased in speed until he's now roughly around Spider-Man's level in reflexes, speed, etc. He's still capable of flying beyond light speed with Mjolnir (or the Odinpower if we're talking King Thor), though. Unfortunately, travel speed doesn't equate to reflex speed.

Very good post indeed, except for the speed issue, yes he was faster but not Supes level. Really Thor himself has few powers, its that damn hammer of his that is so versatile. I know he can control Weather without it, but, it makes it easier and then we have all it's other Space and time tricks etc. Thors biggest power is his Godforce blast which has even given pause to Galactus.

- Whirly

 

[Anubis]

I know you weren't but the thing is, to me, in the 616 (and to be honest, I have read marvel for well over a decade and still don't know why it is called that on the net)....

616 is the designated number of the regular Marvel Universe. This was revealed in Alan Moore's Captain Britain run. The MU is universe 616. There are many theorys as to why they chose this number. Sign of the devil, date of first ish of Fantastic Four, but I believe Alan Moore said he just chose a big number at random to show how insignigicant the universe is or some such. So, people refur to the regular MU as 616 because it's faster to type than, the regular Marvel Universe or whatever.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

According to the 'official' strength levels given to the Ultimate strong-guys, the 616 versions are around 8 to 10 times stronger, so saying 616 Hulk could wipe the floor with them isn't a bad assessment based on that. Of course this is still up in the air until they really do meet (the zombieverse storyline doesnt count). Only a matter of time until they do, especially as that Zombie storyline has easilly opened up the door for a future crossover.

Heh, if strength was the only element that decided a battle, there really wouldn't be an Avengers based on the guys they face, not to mention the FF4 taking down Galactus. In any case, The Ultimates being beaten by 616 Hulk alone is highly inprobable and comes off smacking of 'fanboy'. As to the ratings in themselves, considering how long the Ultimate Universe has been around, that's hardly a large margin considering how long 616 has been in existence. As to that ratio, I doubt 616 Rhino or Colossus is 8 to 10 times better than his respective Ultimate couterpart, so that's just a broad, generalized estimation. I would compare the other characters but your specified 'strong guys'.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Very good post indeed, except for the speed issue, yes he was faster but not Supes level. Really Thor himself has few powers, its that damn hammer of his that is so versatile. I know he can control Weather without it, but, it makes it easier and then we have all it's other Space and time tricks etc. Thors biggest power is his Godforce blast which has even given pause to Galactus.

- Whirly

True. Good thing he can will Mjolnir to return to him.

Also, his speed was very close to Superman's current level. There were numerous mentions in comics that he was "as fast as the lightning he commands." Lightning travels somewhere around 90,000 miles per second, as far as I recall, which is pretty close to the speed of light. I think I've heard Superman's current top speed is about 145,000 miles per second. Not quite as fast, but still close enough that I'd give Thor a majority of their fights if he were still capable of moving and reacting at that speed.

 

[Vanguard07]

Heh, if strength was the only element that decided a battle, there really wouldn't be an Avengers based on the guys they face, not to mention the FF4 taking down Galactus. In any case, The Ultimates being beaten by 616 Hulk alone is highly inprobable and comes off smacking of 'fanboy'. As to the ratings in themselves, considering how long the Ultimate Universe has been around, that's hardly a large margin considering how long 616 has been in existence. As to that ratio, I doubt 616 Rhino or Colossus is 8 to 10 times better than his respective Ultimate couterpart, so that's just a broad, generalized estimation. I would compare the other characters but your specified 'strong guys'.

He was making that "8-10 times stronger" statement based on the official strength levels. He wasnt just fanboying it up.
And it's true. Ultimate hulk's (who's the strongest rated) strength is officially rated at the 17 ton range i think. Current 616 Spiderman could probably match that on a good day.
616 Collossus, Hulk, Thor, The Thing etc etc are all in the 100+ ton range

 

[Guyverjay]

True. Good thing he can will Mjolnir to return to him.
.

The very thing that almost caused him to get his head knocked off by juggy

 

[LobokDaikon]

Unless you are Stan Lee,your comment is nothing but assumption.

Did you not see the word "probably" in there?

 

[The Question]

True. Good thing he can will Mjolnir to return to him.

Also, his speed was very close to Superman's current level. There were numerous mentions in comics that he was "as fast as the lightning he commands." Lightning travels somewhere around 90,000 miles per second, as far as I recall, which is pretty close to the speed of light. I think I've heard Superman's current top speed is about 145,000 miles per second. Not quite as fast, but still close enough that I'd give Thor a majority of their fights if he were still capable of moving and reacting at that speed.

Actually, with his hammer. Thor can trancend lightspeed by opening up wormholes. So, in terms of "point A to point B" speed, Thor trumps Superman.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Travel speed's easy, though. It won't help him in a fight where Superman can move and react to everything Thor can throw at him literally hundreds of times faster than Thor can even perceive what's going on.

Also, don't throw super-speed out too quickly when you bring teleportation into the picture. Wally has outrun instantaneous transportation.

The very thing that almost caused him to get his head knocked off by juggy

Yeah, it's pretty sad that Thunderstrike has a better record against Jugs than Thor does.

 

[The Question]

Travel speed's easy, though. It won't help him in a fight where Superman can move and react to everything Thor can throw at him literally hundreds of times faster than Thor can even perceive what's going on.

Fair point. But Thor's range of infuelnce is alot greater. Doesn't matter how fast you can react to hurricanes, tornados, hailstorms, and lightning strikes going on all at once, because more likely than not, they're going to hit you not matter what.

Also, don't throw super-speed out too quickly when you bring teleportation into the picture. Wally has outrun instantaneous transportation.

I think Instantly geting to Asgard from New York is a bit above Wally.