Why is Thor considered so powerful?

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm keeping my eyes on the current FF arc, but so far the first issue hasn't impressed me much.

Ultimate Colossus too.

Proportionately to the other characters. I know he's stronger than 616 Colossus would be compared to, say, 616 Thor. But is Ultimate Colossus actually pound-for-pound more powerful compared to 616 Colossus himself? I thought the super-strong characters didn't have much hope of measuring up to their 616 counterparts because the strength standards of the Ultimate universe are so much lower than the 616 universe's.

 

[demento]

I thought the super-strong characters didn't have much hope of measuring up to their 616 counterparts because the strength standards of the Ultimate universe are so much lower than the 616 universe's.

That initially seemed to be the case but it's been shown time and again that the Ultimatized versions are at least as powerful as their 616 counterparts. This is especially true for Colossus.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Actually, it has nothing to do with being a fanboy (which I probably am). I love the Ultimates, but they almost got their asses handed to them by Ultimate Hulk. 616 Hulk is WAY, WAY, WAY stronger, and can continue getting stronger as he gets angrier.

616 Hulk> Ultimate Hulk > Ultimates-Wasp.

Pfft. The Avengers have been almost levelled by guys in their older runs that wouldn't give them pause in the present day, this is the Golden/Silver stage of the Ultimate line. They're facing off against guys that give them Hell now because they're still fresh off the shelf and haven't gotten the teamwork you see in their counterparts. Realistically looking at the power levels on the members of the Ultimates it's unrealistic to sit back and say that 616 Hulk would win on GP EVERY time.

Ah yes, and as it's been pointed out, not all the Ultimate heavy hitters are 8 to 10 times weaker than their 616 counterparts, just as I said it's just a generalized ratio.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Pfft. The Avengers have been almost levelled by guys in their older runs that wouldn't give them pause in the present day, this is the Golden/Silver stage of the Ultimate line. They're facing off against guys that give them Hell now because they're still fresh off the shelf and haven't gotten the teamwork you see in their counterparts. Realistically looking at the power levels on the members of the Ultimates it's unrealistic to sit back and say that 616 Hulk would win on GP EVERY time.

Ah yes, and as it's been pointed out, not all the Ultimate heavy hitters are 8 to 10 times weaker than their 616 counterparts, just as I said it's just a generalized ratio.

Agreed

Most famous examples of this are probably Ultimate C moving the Submarine, Ultimate Thor v the Skrull alien fleet and Ultimate Hulk tearing Ultimate Wolverine apart literally in U Hulk v Ult Wolvie 1. Ultimate Phoenix looks to be shaping up as truly "cosmic" in Ult Xmen 69 (now there's a number).

- Whirly

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Exactly my point. The Ultimate Universe is progressing quite nicely, has a large fanbase, and is quite popular, so with all things with these elements; it's got a crapload of detractors from the 'old regime'. I'd be fine with the comparisons if they actually made SENSE.

The concept that you can like the newer more than the old or the two equally seems alien to some.

 

[demento]

It almost seems like 99.9% of the disgruntled take issue with Cap's characterization and choose to boycott all things Ultimate based on that alone. I have a feeling that they're going to become more alike under Loeb though...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That initially seemed to be the case but it's been shown time and again that the Ultimatized versions are at least as powerful as their 616 counterparts. This is especially true for Colossus.

The Hulk and Thor still seem vastly less powerful than their 616 counterparts.

 

[demento]

The Hulk and Thor still seem vastly less powerful than their 616 counterparts.

Maybe. They've been shown to be vulnerable but have also pulled off some pretty incredible feats (the battle w/the Chitauri fleet, for example). But we'll probably know more definitively with the next 2 issues of Ultimates 2 when they go up against the likes of Perun and Abomination.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Didn't Thor just teleport a bunch of the spaceships to another dimension in the Skrull battle? 616 Thor's teleported loads of stuff with ease.

 

[demento]

Didn't Thor just teleport a bunch of the spaceships to another dimension in the Skrull battle? 616 Thor's teleported loads of stuff with ease.

Well, he teleported the doomsday bomb that the Chitauri were going to set off but he, Hulk and Iron Man went mano-a-mano w/the fleet.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, that's something, I guess. Still not quite up there with the 616 versions in my opinion, though.

 

[The Question]

Ultimate Thor also took down a bunch of fighters and one of the huge motherships with a lightning strike.

 

[Anubis]

He also got beat up by Colossus.

 

[The Question]

I still hold that he was caught off gaurd, not expecting Collosus to be that strong. Were they to fight again, I think (at least I hope) that things would be a bit more even.

 

[Anubis]

Bah, he should have had intel on who he was facing. I'm sure they were briefed before they went in to try and capture them. He got his ass handed to him, plain and simple. Freakin Hawkeye had to take him down with a Nuke arrow.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Getting caught by surprise is still pretty sad. 616 Thor gets taken by surprise like three times a week and still kicks his opponents' asses.

 

[The Question]

Bah, he should have had intel on who he was facing. I'm sure they were briefed before they went in to try and capture them. He got his ass handed to him, plain and simple. Freakin Hawkeye had to take him down with a Nuke arrow.

Well, it is possible that the upper limits of Collosus' strength were unknown to S.H.E.I.L.D. Plus, Thor isn't an actual member of the team. He just helps them out alot. He could have simply shown up not having been debreifed about anything.

Getting caught by surprise is still pretty sad. 616 Thor gets taken by surprise like three times a week and still kicks his opponents' asses.

I know. Really, this is just me trying to work out Mark Millar's **** up. I mean, in the Ultimates, he said that Thor is stronger than any other recorded superhuman (except for maybe The Hulk). And yet, in UXM, he's getting pimp smacked by Collosus.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Who said Thor is stronger than anyone else? If it was a character in the comic, it's possible that they were just wrong. The same claim has been made about 616 Thor, when clearly he's not the strongest around.

 

[The Question]

It was stated by Loki that Thor is "stronger than anything they've ever encountered, even in the mutant comunity". Remember, the Ultimate verse is alot smaller. Most of the heavy hitters on Thor's level have not apeared. Besides, the fact that Captain America, Captain Britain, and a bunch of super soldiers on Captain Britain's power level all dogpiled on Thor and he swated them away like they were nothing suggests that he is in fact much stronger than all of them.

 

[Anubis]

Which doesn't bode well for they're power levels if he got his ass handed to him by a teenage mutant.

 

[The Question]

That, or it bodes extremely well for Colosus.

 

[Anubis]

true, true.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Getting caught by surprise is still pretty sad. 616 Thor gets taken by surprise like three times a week and still kicks his opponents' asses.

Bah! It wouldn't be the first time someone's lost a very improbable battle, now would it? Thor/Supes, Spiderman/Firelord, Wolverine/DD, ect. Ish happens, but it doesn't happen often. More importantly as I pointed out earlier, this is the Golden Age for the Ultimate line, the characters are just out there and if they're already geting up on the comprable level with ANY 616 counterpart, what does that say for the next say, 2 or 3 years? 5? You're low balling it, bro.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It doesn't really say anything to me. 616 Thor was more powerful early in his existence than he is now.

 

[Horrorfan]

I have read Hulk, and I still say Ultimate would eat 616 up, digest him and crap him out before he's halfway through transformation.

The Ultimate x men would probably batter the current x men. Wolverine is just downright meaner, and Colossus is apparently much stronger, Chuck would play dirtier....


And Ultimate Cap would have 616 cap out cold while he was still questioning if it was morally right to beat up his counterpart.

Ultimate Thor does sound like a bit of a pansy if he can't take Colossus and he is a god though (I haven't read that yet, I am waiting for the trades)