Why is Thor considered so powerful?

[herakles]

I loved Ultimate, because it put a new, modern spin on things that made it simply more relevant to today's society.

Another fanboy snuckered by the Fat JoeQ

The Ulitimate line is just Marvel's main Universe tweaked and marketed to people into thinking it is something new, "modern and relevent " take on the Marvel U.

McDonalds and Starbucks does the same thing by Spending $$$$ into getting people to think that their CRAPPY product DOESN'T SUCK!!

The ONLY Reason why the Ultimate line is popular is that it has Good writers and pencilers and Marvel markets the hell out it.!!!

I don't care that the Hulk was created by a Gamma Bomb, Iron Man was held captive by the North Koreans, Peter Parker got bit a radioactive spider, or that Thor was forced into being Donald Blake.

I CARE if those titles are WELL drawn and written. The origins of superheros should ONLY matter in their premier appearance!!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Fair point. But Thor's range of infuelnce is alot greater. Doesn't matter how fast you can react to hurricanes, tornados, hailstorms, and lightning strikes going on all at once, because more likely than not, they're going to hit you not matter what.

True, but take into account Superman's durability along with his speed. Thor could have every weather effect nature is capable of creating (and probably a few more besides, given how complete his mastery of the weather has been shown to be before) trained on Superman, but I doubt it'd slow Superman down enough to effectively allow Thor to land more than a couple of glancing blows on him every now and then. On the other hand, Superman's fast and tough enough that he actually does stand a halfway decent chance of making it through the weather effects in fighting form, which would allow him to land a thousand blows on Thor for every one of Thor's. He's also comparable in strength to Thor, which means his punches will count the same as Thor's. 1,000 to 1 is not a very good ratio for Thor's continued health.

I think Instantly geting to Asgard from New York is a bit above Wally.

Not really. Wally can shift his body through dimensions and time better than any other speedster, and if the conditions under which he outraced teleportation the first time were duplicated, I don't see what a difference in the beginning and ending locations would matter. All outracing instantaneous transportation means, really, is that you've broken the time barrier and can move while time stands still. That's effective at getting you from any point to any other point faster than anyone or anything that is beholden to time, which Thor's teleportation is.

 

[The Question]

Not really. Wally can shift his body through dimensions and time better than any other speedster, and if the conditions under which he outraced teleportation the first time were duplicated, I don't see what a difference in the beginning and ending locations would matter. All outracing instantaneous transportation means, really, is that you've broken the time barrier and can move while time stands still. That's effective at getting you from any point to any other point faster than anyone or anything that is beholden to time, which Thor's teleportation is.

Ah. Yes. I forgot, Wally is some speed force god now. Bothers me a bit, that does. Really, I've never been fond of the speed force. Or, at least, I'm not fond of what they've done with it. Giving The Flash new powers like stealing speed and the such.

Another fanboy snuckered by the Fat JoeQ

The Ulitimate line is just Marvel's main Universe tweaked and marketed to people into thinking it is something new, "modern and relevent " take on the Marvel U.

McDonalds and Starbucks does the same thing by Spending $$$$ into getting people to think that their CRAPPY product DOESN'T SUCK!!

The ONLY Reason why the Ultimate line is popular is that it has Good writers and pencilers and Marvel markets the hell out it.!!!

I don't care that the Hulk was created by a Gamma Bomb, Iron Man was held captive by the North Koreans, Peter Parker got bit a radioactive spider, or that Thor was forced into being Donald Blake.

I CARE if those titles are WELL drawn and written. The origins of superheros should ONLY matter in their premier appearance!!

So, why would you have a problem with the Ultimates?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Ah. Yes. I forgot, Wally is some speed force god now. Bothers me a bit, that does. Really, I've never been fond of the speed force. Or, at least, I'm not fond of what they've done with it. Giving The Flash new powers like stealing speed and the such.

I'm very happy with the Speed Force. While Barry was basically just a guy who could run fast and create whirlwinds, Wally has versatility to add to his unparalleled speed. It makes him one of the most powerful characters in comics, and writers like Waid and Johns have made such great use of that power in their stories.

 

[The Question]

I just think that there's enough someone could do with super speed that you don't need to add stealing velocity, dimension hopping, speed force constucts, and stuff like that. Personally, I prefer the idea of The Flash's only power being super speed, but he knows enough about phsyics to make that one power just as potent as Superman's half dozen.

 

[herakles]

So, why would you have a problem with the Ultimates?

First I feel that it those resources could be better used in the regular lines BUT that is my opinion

Also some of the ideas sound lame to me like Thor being this envornmentalist and the Hulk getting his power from the Supersoldier serum. To me that idea sucks and shows a real lack of thought!

Also I am just prefer the Marvel of when I was young and just started reading comics.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I just think that there's enough someone could do with super speed that you don't need to add stealing velocity, dimension hopping, speed force constucts, and stuff like that. Personally, I prefer the idea of The Flash's only power being super speed, but he knows enough about phsyics to make that one power just as potent as Superman's half dozen.

In order to take advantage of the relativistic physics that make his speed so potent, though, the Flash needs the Speed Force. It's the catch-all that explains why his flesh doesn't immolate or tear off of him due to the tiny amount of friction caused by air resistance and why he can even come remotely close to light speed when his body should be accumulating so much mass that he couldn't physically move long before that point. Plus, more often than not, Wally tends to use physics with his super-speed anyway. Witness the infinite mass punch or the way he and Jay accelerated a fire demon into a tiny sun that they could then collapse and form a wormhole with. I think the Speed Force just enriches the basic super-speed power more than making the Flash a speed god.

Also, the dimension-hopping and time travel came long before the Speed Force. The former comes from molecule vibration, which even Barry was capable of, and the latter came from the Cosmic Treadmill before Wally began using the Speed Force to do it without the assistance of tech. I could stand to see both of those go myself, though, given that they're only tangentially related to super-speed. Someone on the boards pointed out that Wally's being able to run through time was as silly as the Hulk's being able to punch through time, and I'd have to agree.

 

[The Question]

In order to take advantage of the relativistic physics that make his speed so potent, though, the Flash needs the Speed Force. It's the catch-all that explains why his flesh doesn't immolate or tear off of him due to the tiny amount of friction caused by air resistance and why he can even come remotely close to light speed when his body should be accumulating so much mass that he couldn't physically move long before that point.

True. And while I suppose it's not the only way it could be explained, it definately works. But that's about where I'd like it to stop. Keeping him from killing himself. Not giving him extra powers like speed stealing. That's the stuff that really bothers me.

Plus, more often than not, Wally tends to use physics with his super-speed anyway. Witness the infinite mass punch or the way he and Jay accelerated a fire demon into a tiny sun that they could then collapse and form a wormhole with. I think the Speed Force just enriches the basic super-speed power more than making the Flash a speed god.

True there.

Also, the dimension-hopping and time travel came long before the Speed Force. The former comes from molecule vibration, which even Barry was capable of, and the latter came from the Cosmic Treadmill before Wally began using the Speed Force to do it without the assistance of tech.

Well, I always had a problem with Barry being able to dimension hop by vibrating. And I didn't necesairily mind the cosmic treadmill, since it was really time travel tech that they powered by running.

I could stand to see both of those go myself, though, given that they're only tangentially related to super-speed. Someone on the boards pointed out that Wally's being able to run through time was as silly as the Hulk's being able to punch through time, and I'd have to agree.

There, you and I are in agreement.

 

[Horrorfan]

Another fanboy snuckered by the Fat JoeQ

The Ulitimate line is just Marvel's main Universe tweaked and marketed to people into thinking it is something new, "modern and relevent " take on the Marvel U.

McDonalds and Starbucks does the same thing by Spending $$$$ into getting people to think that their CRAPPY product DOESN'T SUCK!!

The ONLY Reason why the Ultimate line is popular is that it has Good writers and pencilers and Marvel markets the hell out it.!!!

I don't care that the Hulk was created by a Gamma Bomb, Iron Man was held captive by the North Koreans, Peter Parker got bit a radioactive spider, or that Thor was forced into being Donald Blake.

I CARE if those titles are WELL drawn and written. The origins of superheros should ONLY matter in their premier appearance!!

LOL it has 'GOOD WRITERS AND ARTISTS.' Read that again, and then realise you said that it sucks. So something that is well written and drawn...sucks?But you like other titles that are also 'well written and drawn'? Methinks you're confused.Er I am sorry, but anyone who watches the news for more than ten minutes these days can EASILY see how much more relevant The Ultimates is than the 'old' Avengers. Just watch the news, or read a news paper.I find it funny too you find the Hulk's serum stupid, but are totally ok with a gamma bomb explosion causing it in the first place.It just seems to me that some fanboys are bitter because they finally realised that Marvel are a buisness, and they need to attract new readers. It's not like they scrapped the 616, if you want to read the convoluted, boring characters there (I love Onslaught, but they are brining him back because they are running out of ideas), then you can still do that. But luckily, the fresher Ultimate lines are there for those of us who don't want that too.

 

[The Question]

First I feel that it those resources could be better used in the regular lines BUT that is my opinion

Except, Millar, Bendis, and Ellis couldn't have written most of the storioes they wrote in the Ultimate line if it were in continuity.

Also some of the ideas sound lame to me like Thor being this envornmentalist and the Hulk getting his power from the Supersoldier serum. To me that idea sucks and shows a real lack of thought!

How does it show a real lack of thought? They wanted to get away from the whole "radiation gives everyone super powers" thing. A super steroid makes more sense in creating The Hulk than a gamma explosion. And really, it's not like it takes anything away from the character. And what's wrong with Thor caring about the environment?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Just view the Ultimate characters as wholly separate from their 616 counterparts. 616 Thor is the actual Norse god with all the trappings that entails. Ultimate Thor is a crazy hippie with a power belt and techno-hammer. Totally different characters with just a name in common, just like DC's Thor (who was a moron).

 

[Xofenroht]

How does it show a real lack of thought? They wanted to get away from the whole "radiation gives everyone super powers" thing. A super steroid makes more sense in creating The Hulk than a gamma explosion. And really, it's not like it takes anything away from the character. And what's wrong with Thor caring about the environment?

Especially considering he's the god of an elemental force...

Edit: Corp, Ultimate Thor has been confirmed as a god.

 

[The Question]

Just view the Ultimate characters as wholly separate from their 616 counterparts. 616 Thor is the actual Norse god with all the trappings that entails. Ultimate Thor is a crazy hippie with a power belt and techno-hammer. Totally different characters with just a name in common, just like DC's Thor (who was a moron).

Ultimate Thor is a god. He just lost his powers because Loki ****ed with reality.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Ok. So he's a crazy hippie with a power belt and techno-hammer who used to be a god.

 

[The Question]

I guess.

 

[Advocate05]

OKay and that makes it better than the 616.



GO Ultimates!!!



BTW ... just thought about it ...

Originally posted by The Question:
Ultimate Thor is a god. He just lost his powers because Loki ****ed with reality.

Originally posted by TheCorpulent1:
Ok. So he's a crazy hippie with a power belt and techno-hammer who used to be a god.

How can you LOSE God powers? Even if you bend reality to where you lose them ... Reality has to bend back. Thereby putting the God powers back on oneself. Okay I maybe over thinking this, but i don't think so.

 

[Mr. Green]

Apparantly Odin turned his back on the whole situation.

Don't hate on the Ultimates though. It's one of the best written books out today.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

OKay and that makes it better than the 616.

For some, I'm sure. I think Ultimate Thor is about .5% of the character 616 Thor is, but that's just me. It's Millar's spin on the concept of a modern-day deity, which works well in the context of the Ultimates. I'd have to attempt to assassinate Millar or anyone else who tried to transplant Ultimate Thor's character on 616 Thor, though, which would probably land me in jail. Good thing the universes are remaining separate for the time being.

 

[The Question]

OKay and that makes it better than the 616.



GO Ultimates!!!

Never said it was better. I like both equally.

BTW ... just thought about it ...




How can you LOSE God powers? Even if you bend reality to where you lose them ... Reality has to bend back. Thereby putting the God powers back on oneself. Okay I maybe over thinking this, but i don't think so.

Why would reality have to bend back? Loki can bend reality. Why wouldn't he be able to keep it bent?

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Except, Millar, Bendis, and Ellis couldn't have written most of the storioes they wrote in the Ultimate line if it were in continuity.



How does it show a real lack of thought? They wanted to get away from the whole "radiation gives everyone super powers" thing. A super steroid makes more sense in creating The Hulk than a gamma explosion. And really, it's not like it takes anything away from the character. And what's wrong with Thor caring about the environment?

Yeah, I'd have to agree here. In the 616 a whole crapload of people got their power from radiation, so if were really talking in terms of ingenuity, then it'd be the 616 that falls short. At least the Ultimate line is diverse with it's origins and the characters to an extent, it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do: stand alone. It was stated quite clearly that they made the Ultimate line for people to be able to get into without digging through decades of continuity and sometimes confusing plot lines and shifting views. Consequently that drew in alot of people that love 616 as well, longtime fans became fans of the Ultimate line AND the 616, just as Question and myself.

I don't get why it is that people have to try and bash your head in with a roack, as seen at the top of the page with the attack on Horror Fan, if you like the Ultimate line over the 616. It is possible to like *gasp* BOTH!

*Waits for people to pick their jaws up off the floor*

Personally I like them equally.

 

[Xofenroht]

Yeah, I'd have to agree here. In the 616 a whole crapload of people got their power from radiation, so if were really talking in terms of ingenuity, then it'd be the 616 that falls short. At least the Ultimate line is diverse with it's origins and the characters to an extent, it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do: stand alone. It was stated quite clearly that they made the Ultimate line for people to be able to get into without digging through decades of continuity and sometimes confusing plot lines and shifting views. Consequently that drew in alot of people that love 616 as well, longtime fans became fans of the Ultimate line AND the 616, just as Question and myself.

I don't get why it is that people have to try and bash your head in with a roack, as seen at the top of the page with the attack on Horror Fan, if you like the Ultimate line over the 616. It is possible to like *gasp* BOTH!

*Waits for people to pick their jaws up off the floor*

Personally I like them equally.

It's not the Ultimate line I see that's the problem, nor is it how much people like it. Heck, I quite enjoy reading The Ultimates. What I do think is the problem is how people run to it, then try to use those titles to back them up in debates about a specific character. No matter how long the Ultimate Universe is around, it will always be known as "The Other Universe". Ultimate Thor will never just be Thor and etc.
The origins of the silver age characters are products of their time. There was alot of nuclear paranoia going around in which Stan Lee seemed to cash in on at the time. You couldn't do that today because no one really cares. They're more concerned with a shady government or addressing social inequality.

 

[Mr. Green]

Heh, if strength was the only element that decided a battle, there really wouldn't be an Avengers based on the guys they face, not to mention the FF4 taking down Galactus. In any case, The Ultimates being beaten by 616 Hulk alone is highly inprobable and comes off smacking of 'fanboy'.

Actually, it has nothing to do with being a fanboy (which I probably am). I love the Ultimates, but they almost got their asses handed to them by Ultimate Hulk. 616 Hulk is WAY, WAY, WAY stronger, and can continue getting stronger as he gets angrier.

616 Hulk> Ultimate Hulk > Ultimates-Wasp.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Ultimate Cap is the only character I can think of off the top of my head who's actually more powerful than his 616 counterpart.

 

[Anubis]

Ultimate Colossus too.

 

[thor87]

wll its been a while since ive been to the boards but its a thor thread so ill put my 2 sense in. Yeah i love thor (616) that is, and the ultimate thor who seemed to me like a giant liberal with a hammer, wasnt as cool. I like the Ultimates though, it gives a new take on an already proven idea, i dont see why the two are mutually exclusive, you can like both. I personnaly preffer 616 just cause its what i know, but the Ultimates have done some good stuff, now in the ultimate verse someone said they were 8-10 times weaker than 616, i think that goes for everone except ult. cap who seems to be a lot stronger than 616. Oh an on an unrelated thor note, lets all pray that he comes back soon.