Apocalypse X-Men: Apocalypse Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 5

[DavidHaller]

It would tremendously help if the director, writer and producer would re-read Claremont's X-Men run to get some inspirations for some amazing power pieces...Claremont really knew how to use the powers of characters like Storm and Cyclops!

the potential for action scenes is really limitless. But 'X-Men: Apocalypse' was really dull and boring in this regard and did not showcase Singer's eye for beautifullly choreographed action pieces at all. Everything was horribly choreographed! Especially the final act. Jean's moment was the only gleam of hope (the walking on air-moment). I personally wasn't impressed by the aeshetic of the Phoenix effect although to be honest and why did they not do anything exciting and unique with the Astral Plane is also utterly beyond me. They could have been able to showcase Xavier's ability in such new psychedelic and surreal ways. Making use of the 3D technology in a creative manner...

Magneto vs. Apocalypse could have been glorious also but we got some cheep ass looking CGI green screen mess!!! Urg!

Why didn't they let Magneto built an armor out of metall around him like he did in the comic books (Age of Apocalypse) and kick the hell out of Apocalypse's physical form while Xavier attacks his mind? That would have been something we haven't seen Magneto do with his powers for a change...

I repeat myself but this movie was soooo unbelievably disappointing after "Days of Future Past".

 

[GuestStar2004]

i don't think we needed a magneto vs apocalypse fist fight.

 

[henzINNIT]

It would tremendously help if the director, writer and producer would re-read Claremont's X-Men run to get some inspirations for some amazing power pieces...Claremont really knew how to use the powers of characters like Storm and Cyclops!

the potential for action scenes is really limitless. But 'X-Men: Apocalypse' was really dull and boring in this regard and did not showcase Singer's eye for beautifullly choreographed action pieces at all. Everything was horribly choreographed! Especially the final act. Jean's moment was the only gleam of hope (the walking on air-moment). I personally wasn't impressed by the aeshetic of the Phoenix effect although to be honest and why did they not do anything exciting and unique with the Astral Plane is also utterly beyond me. They could have been able to showcase Xavier's ability in such new psychedelic and surreal ways. Making use of the 3D technology in a creative manner...

I thought it started strongly. I liked how the mansion walls grew up around them as Charles punched him. It petered out really quickly though. Sad that something with limitless visual potential basically came down to a guy getting stepped on by a bigger guy. I've been waiting for a scene like that since we heard it got deleted from First Class.

As for Magneto, anything would have been more interesting than watch Fassbender awkwardly hang on wires with a bunch of CGI crap flying around him.

It's safe to say at this point that Singer is not the guy to do large, extended action sequences, but he's shown much more style in the past regardless.

 

[superweirdo87]

1.07M Monday in the dailies.

 

[X-Maniac]

It would tremendously help if the director, writer and producer would re-read Claremont's X-Men run to get some inspirations for some amazing power pieces...Claremont really knew how to use the powers of characters like Storm and Cyclops!

I've said that on here for months...

But I do think they tried a bit more this time, as Magneto's force-field bubble made an appearance... but there's a long way to go yet!

the potential for action scenes is really limitless. But 'X-Men: Apocalypse' was really dull and boring in this regard and did not showcase Singer's eye for beautifullly choreographed action pieces at all. Everything was horribly choreographed! Especially the final act. Jean's moment was the only gleam of hope (the walking on air-moment). I personally wasn't impressed by the aeshetic of the Phoenix effect although to be honest and why did they not do anything exciting and unique with the Astral Plane is also utterly beyond me. They could have been able to showcase Xavier's ability in such new psychedelic and surreal ways. Making use of the 3D technology in a creative manner...

I agree the astral plane battle could have been so much more. Now, of course, Doctor Strange will do it all better and anything X-Men does will look like a rip-off.

I also wasn't impressed by the Phoenix effect. It should have been far more awe-inspiring, mystical and dazzling... as it was, I can hardly remember it.

Magneto vs. Apocalypse could have been glorious also but we got some cheep ass looking CGI green screen mess!!! Urg!

Why didn't they let Magneto built an armor out of metall around him like he did in the comic books (Age of Apocalypse) and kick the hell out of Apocalypse's physical form while Xavier attacks his mind? That would have been something we haven't seen Magneto do with his powers for a change...

Well, Magneto in armour might have seemed a bit like the Hulkbuster in Avengers: AoU. So I'm not that keen on that idea.

And at least Magneto's power went beyond just moving big chunks of metal, he also summoned the metallic elements of the earth and seemed to be affecting the poles. Plus, he had his magnetic force field bubble.

However, the overall result (a needless Auschwitz scene and a climax where he hovered in a bubble) was not the best we could hope for.

 

[Tilapia]

If they recast Rogue they might as well do so for everyone this isnt a good idea, it's best to introduce a new Rogue in the timeline when they catch up. They don't need to wait 15 years just to do the DPS if they choose to do so they don't have to be that old in a few years they would be mid early twenties which is more than fine let's not reach. I do agree though I think they should focus on either Proteus/Sinister or Shadow King then close the trilogy starting off with the DPS I think would be a good way to handle it. I just don't think 15 years is needed just to tackle the DPS. I'm looking forward to seeing these characters grow into the role. I'm hoping for either Shadow King or Proteus next movie.

If they do DPS sooner rather than later, then Jean must survive considering she was there in 2023 (or maybe it was her clone, whatever). Otherwise they need to alter the timeline yet again, which is likely considering Cable is coming in.

If Cable arrives in the 90's and they decide to do DPS in tandem, then you could definitely get it in there within the next 6-8 years. If they are keeping consistent with DoFP ending and timeline, then you have to do smaller stories for the next two films, then sit on X-Films for a bit until the cast grows a bit more into their roles. Regardless, I think we are getting another time travel and timeline change, so count me in this camp.

Frankly, this box office has been such a disappointment that I don't even think we should get additional X-Films with this cast from a business standpoint. I would do a Gambit spin off in the 80's and stay in the future with X-Force. I would not want to invest hundreds of millions in expensive X-Men productions if I were an executive.

As a fanboy, my direction would be:

2019: X-Men 7 (late 80's with Gambit, Sinister and the X-Men)
2020: X-Force (Cable goes back in time at the end)
2021: Deadpool 3
2022: DPS Part I (Cable appears at the end, Jean sacrifice)
2023: DPS part II (Dark Phoenix)

 

[ApophènX]

I've said that on here for months...

But I do think they tried a bit more this time, as Magneto's force-field bubble made an appearance... but there's a long way to go yet!
I agree the astral plane battle could have been so much more. Now, of course, Doctor Strange will do it all better and anything X-Men does will look like a rip-off.

I also wasn't impressed by the Phoenix effect. It should have been far more awe-inspiring,...
And at least Magneto's power went beyond just moving big chunks of metal, he also summoned the metallic elements of the earth and seemed to be affecting the poles. Plus, he had his magnetic force field bubble.
However, the overall result (a nNEEDLESS Auschwitz scene and a climax where he hovered in a bubble) was not the best we could hope for.

The bubble effect on Magneto was more there to show he closed himself from other, isolation in his bubble, in his helmet. Where in the final scene it is Apoczlypse who is in a bubble and alone.

And Charles astral plane being is house was really powerfull, it blurrs the limits beetwen him and others, his heart is his house, it's headspace. He said it in DoFP his power comes from there (showing his head and relating it to his chest.)

Because he is Magneto and Apocalypse opposite he needs the help of others, he can't walk alone. And so he call Jean in his head/heart/bird-cage. He don't want to be closed in a cage and (big emotional revelatio) his mistakes was to control people, like in cage, put there mind in cage. He as to be free, so he get bald. Meaning is open, connected. Not in cage or helmet or bubble. Connected. Others. Family.

They gave it meaning and most of you seems to be asking for big entertainment. And then some complains they are no "message" and politcal stuff or whatevd, that makes me angry. As for Magneto coming back to Auschitws when the character is about being slave to his memory and Apoc giving him a speech about a forest burning (and his daughter die in a forest) and him feeling the earth right after (oh and his daughter was also feeling the earth, it was ger power) and destroying the birth plzce of his power and trauma.

But you know, emotional complexity is overated and "NEEDLESS".

 

[Flint Marko]

The bubble effect on Magneto was more there to show he closed himself from other, isolation in his bubble, in his helmet. Where in the final scene it is Apoczlypse who is in a bubble and alone.

And Charles astral plane being is house was really powerfull, it blurrs the limits beetwen him and others, his heart is his house, it's headspace. He said it in DoFP his power comes from there (showing his head and relating it to his chest.)

Because he is Magneto and Apocalypse opposite he needs the help of others, he can't walk alone. And so he call Jean in his head/heart/bird-cage. He don't want to be closed in a cage and (big emotional revelatio) his mistakes was to control people, like in cage, put there mind in cage. He as to be free, so he get bald. Meaning is open, connected. Not in cage or helmet or bubble. Connected. Others. Family.

They gave it meaning and most of you seems to be asking for big entertainment. And then some complains they are no "message" and politcal stuff or whatevd, that makes me angry. As for Magneto coming back to Auschitws when the character is about being slave to his memory and Apoc giving him a speech about a forest burning (and his daughter die in a forest) and him feeling the earth right after (oh and his daughter was also feeling the earth, it was ger power) and destroying the birth plzce of his power and trauma.

But you know, emotional complexity is overated and "NEEDLESS".

We've had a conversation similar to this where you explained the imagery and symbolism behind certain moments, but it does nothing to account for the fact that I (and others, apparently) do not think it was handled in an effective way. Again, I point to my middle school poetry; I can explain how it's full of depth and meaning, but it still doesn't make it good.
And for the record I feel the need to say that, again, X-men Apocalypse is better than my middle school poetry. Just an analogy.

 

[StormC]

All the symbolism in the world and it doesn't matter if a scene fails to emotionally connect to the audience.

 

[ApophènX]

All the symbolism in the world and it doesn't matter if a scene fails to emotionally connect to the audience.

But it seems most people didn't get it because they were thinking how luch it is not like CW...

You feel like this and it makes me sad, thats why i keepwriting long post, beczuse i think if people understand a bit more what's behind or offering thel a different view it can transport them and hopefully they will understand a bit more of sole powerfull message.

Those momentum made me high as f***, i was thrilled, feeling like a child in front of the screen, full catharsis. Left the cinema feeling different.

You know taking the audiience and the mass as an argument is really non relevant. You're just reassuring yourself, confort, bubble. But we all know those things

 

[Flint Marko]

But it seems most people didn't get it because they were thinking how luch it is not like CW...

No. People didn't "get it" (and trust me when I say that you're not giving the detractors enough credit) because they found the screenplay to be clunky and not particularly engaging. It's nice that you felt differently, but understand that not everyone is going to feel the way you do.

I really despise this fairly newer trend of posters here telling someone they didn't like a movie because they "didn't get it" or that they were comparing it to another superhero film made by a different studio. It's reductive, intellectually dishonest, and offensive.

 

[fallenAngel]

In all fairness to Singer and co. The budget is significantly less than the other big super hero movies this year. Even less than Dofp.

A lot of the budget for the other movies goes toward the actors, but blaming the movie for a lack of spectacle isn't something you can pin solely on the creative talent behind the camera. Especially since they likely only had certain actors for a limited number of time and decided against killing them off ala Last Stand.

The studio has never had a ton of faith in the X-men property, and as such interest has dwindled (which it would do after this much time anyway). So maybe they shouldn't have tried to tackle Apocalypse, but also if not now when? In another ten years when people may or may not care even less?

The script could've been a lot better, and they clearly tried to echo the past (possibly to make up for a lack of new ideas), but at the end of the day this movie was just perhaps overly ambitious and they clearly tried. I get the disappointment, I don't understand when that turns to hate and open frustration.

I was watching Fantastic Four (2005) the other day. Non of Fox's other superhero properties ever got off the ground besides X-men. Clearly Singer isn't the "Problem"

That being said I wholly would welcome a new director and smaller stories.

 

[X-Maniac]

The bubble effect on Magneto was more there to show he closed himself from other, isolation in his bubble, in his helmet. Where in the final scene it is Apoczlypse who is in a bubble and alone.

And Charles astral plane being is house was really powerfull, it blurrs the limits beetwen him and others, his heart is his house, it's headspace. He said it in DoFP his power comes from there (showing his head and relating it to his chest.)

Because he is Magneto and Apocalypse opposite he needs the help of others, he can't walk alone. And so he call Jean in his head/heart/bird-cage. He don't want to be closed in a cage and (big emotional revelatio) his mistakes was to control people, like in cage, put there mind in cage. He as to be free, so he get bald. Meaning is open, connected. Not in cage or helmet or bubble. Connected. Others. Family.

They gave it meaning and most of you seems to be asking for big entertainment. And then some complains they are no "message" and politcal stuff or whatevd, that makes me angry. As for Magneto coming back to Auschitws when the character is about being slave to his memory and Apoc giving him a speech about a forest burning (and his daughter die in a forest) and him feeling the earth right after (oh and his daughter was also feeling the earth, it was ger power) and destroying the birth plzce of his power and trauma.

But you know, emotional complexity is overated and "NEEDLESS".

Yes, those are good points. But I still think the movie was flawed and far from perfect. It's why the reviews were mixed and the box office underwhelming.

I didn't want the film to be like Civil War but I thought the action scenes could have been better in places.

Now that we've seen Xavier and Magneto letting go of the past, hopefully Singer can let go of the past as well and the franchise can move forwards with some new things to focus on and some new symbolism.

What would you like to see happen in the next films and why?

 

[ApophènX]

No. People didn't "get it" (and trust me when I say that you're not giving the detractors enough credit) because they found the screenplay to be clunky and not particularly engaging. It's nice that you felt differently, but understand that not everyone is going to feel the way you do.

I really despise this fairly newer trend of posters here telling someone they didn't like a movie because they "didn't get it" or that they were comparing it to another superhero film made by a different studio. It's reductive, intellectually dishonest, and offensive.

I found the screenplay to be clunky too, dialogues not that good, acting ok but not excellent. I just get over it and don't let it spoil the experience, i try to focus on positic stuff and what the they did right. It's not by any means perfect.

The "didn't get it" thing is more nuanced i my opinion. Every experience is subjective and so ywe all have our own understanding. People who tell this (and it's pass through my head sometime honestly) are feeling alone because the majority (wich you invoqued to colfort yourself in your opinion in your earlier post) is not with them, they feel alone. It's horrible to feel alone for something you love and experienced in a nice way. So everybody's not so different i think.

This said. People who didn't like a XMA, staying focused, tend to focus on details and not others (my personal experience and reading of the internet) and some time dismiss the films for things they really did not understand. Maybe if they had noticed it in the movies when watching it they would have felt great and loved the movie. Because understanding is about identification, connecting, like empathy. All this is nuanced.

I personnaly think people didn't connect with this movie because more information is in the detailed or in visuals expressions than explained through the language. It's the formula of the films, what we call flaws are only relevant of our taste today. Subjectivity. Movies like Revenants and Gravity did it and where dislissed by most for there non apparent story telling. It's abstract i think, we live in rational time and use to much verbal and sequenced thinkings. Perfect exemple is this sentence or every other written stuffs, little entities...

 

[ApophènX]

Yes, those are good points. But I still think the movie was flawed and far from perfect. It's why the reviews were mixed and the box office underwhelming.

What would you like to see happen in the next films and why?

I agree, flaws and nothing is perfect. I gotta says those flaws were made beautifull with the intention of the movie and what it got right imo.

I would like to see space and the Shi'ar. X-Men versus them would be amazing and a very good oportunity to explore more complex team fight. But i would like the incursion to space to be like a breath, like up:all very rythmic, fight first then some exlorztion and beautfiull stuff, poetry of outer space. And then down. Like a dream, a fleeting moment. Charles finally meeting lillandra for a brief instant. M-Crystal why not, could be great with the guardian inside. Or that crazy guy outside the timeline, i loved him in the tv show.

But space would be second films. The first would set up larger plans wich would resolve in the third act. Sinister sounds good to me. Proteus too, could bring back the father issue of magneto and quicksi in parallels. More family school time, with the technology today they really can make some great mutznt power interzction, something really fun. Maybe Genosha in the third act, would be like a coming back to earth after the second act in space. And include back Magneto. Sinister would have had a plan develloping in the shadow, pulling strings.

So 1:sinister, in the shadow, pulling strings
2: space and proteus (2001 space baby who can model reality you named it)(Phoenix).
3: back to earth and reality, Genosha, Magneto and Sinister coming out the shadows. Dark Phoenix. With politcal issues a mutant god like can be interesting, but reminiscent of Apoc.

A movie with both Proteus and Space travel in it would be awesome, psychic and mind bending, distortion of everything. And really fun in a way, switching with horros of the depth of the mind. Then the coming back to reality and politcal latters would be greatly effective. Contrasting well, morphing emotion and scale can make a film monumental if the flow is right

 

[Frankeh]

What would you like to see happen in the next films and why?

Legacy Virus?
Genosha?

I'm not keen on space anymore because I feel what X-Men needs to do after Apocalypse is scale down.

 

[superweirdo87]

"Frankly, this box office has been such a disappointment that I don't even think we should get additional X-Films with this cast from a business standpoint. I would do a Gambit spin off in the 80's and stay in the future with X-Force. I would not want to invest hundreds of millions in expensive X-Men productions if I were an executive."


Naturally, X-Men movies do cost money. But, the budget could in the mid-100s. Fox does have to make X-Men movies periodically do keep the rights. Also, the rights are on a separate deal from Deadpool. They might be able to get by on using X-Men characters in Deadpool or X-Force. But Gambit might be more dicey as a business proposition. Depending on the budget, a less than strong Gambit performance may not leave Fox drowning in a pool of red ink. A lot of people say they are unenthusiastic about a Gambit movie.

 

[superweirdo87]

Legacy Virus?
Genosha?

I'm not keen on space anymore because I feel what X-Men needs to do after Apocalypse is scale down.

Also, the budget. We don't want to gamble on a high budget that is difficult to earn back.

 

[Frankeh]

How about a Storm movie? Directed by someone who is passionate and whose vision is to bring the character exactly as it is in the comics to the screen.

They'd have a female-led solo film which for an IP ripe with great female characters have been non-existent. Plus they'd redeem themselves in the eyes of Storm fans (if they get it right).

I don't get a feeling Shipp was disliked in the role, more like Storm didn't linger in people's minds post-viewing, which is the filmmakers fault. Getting her white hair from Apocalypse (regardless if he "advanced" her mutation) is pretty much beyond repair though...

 

[Wildcard]

It's just not possible though. Look at The Wolverine that was a solo film and it cost about $120 million to make. Even Captain America and Thor first solos were around $140 million and they're just solo films. I don't think the X-Men films have been over budgeted. All these huge comic book franchises are costly. Especially team related ones with big cast. They're going to be on the high end of $100 million and early $200 million.

I think DP proves that it is possible to scale back these budgets. I'm not saying X-Men should or could be done for the same budget, but they do need to scale back more. That goes for other superhero films as well (i.e BvS costing $250 million).

The MCU pretty much perfectly captures what I'm talking about. They only increase the budgets substantially when it's absolutely necessary. And it always pays off.

With X-Men, as others have said, they're almost re-telling the same stories so it's not the same.

 

[kevork89]

I think DP proves that it is possible to scale back these budgets. I'm not saying X-Men should or could be done for the same budget, but they do need to scale back more. That goes for other superhero films as well (i.e BvS costing $250 million).

The MCU pretty much perfectly captures what I'm talking about. They only increase the budgets substantially when it's absolutely necessary. And it always pays off.

With X-Men, as others have said, they're almost re-telling the same stories so it's not the same.

You are right there. Did you hear how the reported budget for Suicide Squad is $200-$250 million and that probably doesn't include the reshoots they've had to do.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

How about a Storm movie? Directed by someone who is passionate and whose vision is to bring the character exactly as it is in the comics to the screen.

EXACTLY from at what point of time in the comics? Storm has ranged from everything between a zero-personality sap and Claremonts weird bondage/dominated Mistress. Personally I love the 90s animated speech giving version; she was awesome then.

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fz93UFClpo[/YT]

I think this is one of the biggest issues the movies will always have; everyone's got such strong connections to different time periods of the comics/media that everyone seems to has such strong ideas of what they think the movie should be. IF the film doesn't match whatever ideal they've made up over the years in their head people will always be disappointed.

Even if they added "Comic accurate costumes" they'd be the wrong costumes to a lot of people.

 

[GuestStar2004]

You are right there. Did you hear how the reported budget for Suicide Squad is $200-$250 million and that probably doesn't include the reshoots they've had to do.

Suicide squad could be a surprise hit like guardians of the galaxy

 

[GuestStar2004]

How about a Storm movie? Directed by someone who is passionate and whose vision is to bring the character exactly as it is in the comics to the screen.

Doubt it would do that well

 

[kevork89]

Suicide squad could be a surprise hit like guardians of the galaxy

Definitely but that budget plus reshoots and money spent on marketing. They're gonna struggle to make a profit. I read BvS with budget, marketing and all that ended up costing WB $400 million.