The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 3

[The Joker]

Milost, milost, milost.

I actually liked him a lot. Yeah he got a bit OTT sometimes, but he usually had great points to make.

 

[Brother Jack]

Rises got good reviews and broke a billion worldwide, more than even its predecessor. BVS had neither, despite starring the three oldest and most famous superheroes in history.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Rises got good reviews and broke a billion worldwide, more than even its predecessor. BVS had neither, despite starring the three oldest and most famous superheroes in history.

Namor is older than Diana.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Milk toast?

 

[Ryan]

I'll still throw tdkr on once in awhile to see if i'll change my mind. Unfortunately, as soon as I discover something I like, I'll find something else that brings it down for me. So my feelings towards it remains the same, in that I find it to be my least favourite in the trilogy. What's more is that in some recent articles I posted here (regarding Batman Begins 10 year anniversary and the dark knight trilogy vs the cap trilogy) highlighted in their editorials that tdkr was at the very least the film that split the fan base the most.
While there are performances and certain aspects I do like in tdkr, unfortunately my only loyalty to it is because (as BatLobsterRises put it) of the good will put forward by the first 2 films. I probably couldn't say it any better than as stated in this pro Dark Knight trilogy vs Cap trilogy posting http://collider.com/dark-knight-trilogy-better-than-captain-america/ Ha, so maybe to end it on a positive note. TDKR is my least favourite of the trilogy, but probably my third favourite superhero film.

 

[BatLobster]

_____ was a character and sparked some good debates, which was fun...for a while. But it started getting a bit much towards the end, and it got creepy when after getting banned he came back and said that he has dozens of SHH! accounts and changes his posting style with each one, and sometimes plays both sides on a given topic just to stir the pot.

I mean, whether or not that's even true, it's a creepy AF thing to even say.

 

[The Shape]

It was true, and still is.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

_____ was a character and sparked some good debates, which was fun...for a while. But it started getting a bit much towards the end, and it got creepy when after getting banned he came back and said that he has dozens of SHH! accounts and changes his posting style with each one, and sometimes plays both sides on a given topic just to stir the pot.

I mean, whether or not that's even true, it's a creepy AF thing to even say.

That's just sad.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

_____ was a character and sparked some good debates,

There is an actual account with that name.

 

[shauner111]

Good points like Bane is not a big dude in Rises, Hardy didn't get big, he's puny. I don't remember a single good point that guy made.

 

[JackWhite]

Eh, he was a pretty decent poster in the beginning but yeah, he really did turn into a troll.

 

[Alex Logan]

I just rewatched TDKR and enjoyed it quite a bit. BW's arc is the most in depth and fleshed out of the three films. A lot of the problems I had with the film registered less (not that there aren't still flaws).

TDKR lovers can rejoice.

This. This whole trilogy was about Bruce Wayne, the third film being the most fleshed out as you said. I think a lot of people forgot that these movies really weren't about Batman and I think Bruce's journey though the whole trilogy was what made these films so appealing to the masses.

Most of the complaints that I remember were along these lines, "He wasn't Batman long enough.", "He quit twice in one movie, Batman would never do that.", "(insert character name) wouldn't do that.", "The film had too many plot holes." Granted there were other complaints, but the ones described above were the vast majority. Yes, the film does have flaws, just like the first two.

Even without hindsight, I don't think the reception to TDKR was anywhere near BvS. The most it ever got was "it's a bad sequel" or "it's a bad Batman film", but almost no one said it was a bad film period. Everyone was debating the film in the context that we all agreed on what the core positives were (acting, soundtrack, effects, etc.). With BvS you barely have even that.

Exactly. The reception to TDKR has been nothing compared to BvS, TDKR received mostly positive reviews. It even carries a higher rating than Batman Begins on RT and MC, the same can't be said for BvS.

 

[Brother Jack]

This. This whole trilogy was about Bruce Wayne, the third film being the most fleshed out as you said. I think a lot of people forgot that these movies really weren't about Batman and I think Bruce's journey though the whole trilogy was what made these films so appealing to the masses.

I don't know if you knew this, but Bruce is Batman. You can't have one without the other.

 

[BatLobster]

Still, it wasn't until Begins that a movie ever tried to get an audience invested in Bruce Wayne minus the whole Batman persona. By making the audience wait an hour for to see him in the suit...it allowed for a chance to get emotionally invested and rooting for Bale's Bruce in a way that was never really there for any previous incarnation of the character.

To be honest, I would've happily watched an entire origin movie where he only returns to Gotham and adopts the persona at the very end. The first act of Begins is up there.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Mask of the Phantasm included?

 

[BatLobster]

I was thinking more of the live action films. MOTP was definitely the closest thing to an origin film until 2005.

 

[JackWhite]

If anything the films were getting progressively more about Bruce accepting his need/destiny to be Batman as they went along. That is basically one half of his arc in TDK, the other being how far will he go to stop criminals as crazy and unpredictable as the Joker.

I don't think I've mentioned this before, but if you look at all three films as snap shots of Bruce's career and life as Batman; I think it makes Rises a much better film in regards to it as a follow up to TDK. Some of the issues like how it feels more like a sequel to BB actually are alleviated that way, IMO.

Batman Begins - The beginning of Bruce's crusade.

The Dark Knight - Bruce in his prime as Batman taking on his greatest adversary in the Joker and accepting his fate and need for Batman.

The Dark Knight Rises - Bruce, still haunted by the repercussions of his actions nearly a decade ago, coming out of retirement for last hurrah and finally letting go of his demons.

I actually plan on watching TDKR within the next week or so and plan on having that mindset when I watch it.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Still, it wasn't until Begins that a movie ever tried to get an audience invested in Bruce Wayne minus the whole Batman persona. By making the audience wait an hour for to see him in the suit...it allowed for a chance to get emotionally invested and rooting for Bale's Bruce in a way that was never really there for any previous incarnation of the character.

To be honest, I would've happily watched an entire origin movie where he only returns to Gotham and adopts the persona at the very end. The first act of Begins is up there.

That woulda been a better film that what we've got. Begins is really weird. Bruce stops developing as a character after 45 mins. Making it feel like two movies.

TDK and Rises don't have this problem.

Oh yeah, I can say with confidence that Rises > Begins.

 

[BatLobster]

That woulda been a better film that what we've got. Begins is really weird. Bruce stops developing as a character after 45 mins. Making it feel like two movies.

TDK and Rises don't have this problem.

Oh yeah, I can say with confidence that Rises > Begins.

 

[Brother Jack]

I don't think I've mentioned this before, but if you look at all three films as snap shots of Bruce's career and life as Batman; I think it makes Rises a much better film in regards to it as a follow up to TDK. Some of the issues like how it feels more like a sequel to BB actually are alleviated that way, IMO.

Batman Begins - The beginning of Bruce's crusade.

The Dark Knight - Bruce in his prime as Batman taking on his greatest adversary in the Joker and accepting his fate and need for Batman.

The Dark Knight Rises - Bruce, still haunted by the repercussions of his actions nearly a decade ago, coming out of retirement for last hurrah and finally letting go of his demons.

That's exactly what the trilogy is. And I think it makes for a very general skeletal structure for Bruce's entire arc. In part by borrowing from different comic stories as signposts to mark progression.

As for Begins on its own, I think maybe the greatest thing Nolan did was make Bruce feel like a real human being. I'd never gotten that in a live action film before, as good as some of them were (two). Beyond everything else that was exceptional about it, that was the thing that resonated most. I could empathize with him and understand the internal logic of what was happening, regardless of how larger than life it actually was.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I dunno what happened, Lobby. I watched Rises a few days ago and it clicked with me. It's the most emotionally charged of the trilogy. TDK, which I watched the day before, was a more distant and colder experience.

 

[BatLobster]

I have some issues with Begins' third act, to me it really does kind of turn into a different movie by the end and gets into a very 'obligatory comic book movie climax' kinda mode which feels like such a far cry from where it started.

But it starts so damn strongly that I'm fine with it, and I respect the hell out of the movie for setting the entire tone for what was to come for the trilogy and being a really influential movie in general. It feels the most "compromised" of the three to me. TDK and TDKR feel more like more mature films through and through to me, and I also think Nolan's growth as a director is pretty clear as you progress through the trilogy.

I dunno what happened, Lobby. I watched Rises a few days ago and it clicked with me. It's the most emotionally charged of the trilogy. TDK, which I watched the day before, was a more distant and colder experience.

I've always said that my brain gravitates more towards TDK, but my heart more towards TDKR. So I agree that TDKR is the most emotionally driven one. It really depends on my mood for any of the movies, but if I watch one of them when I'm in just the right mood, it can be immensely satisfying. I've also had 'rougher' viewings of all the movies where I was noticing more things that bugged me. To me it all just goes to show how much I do love the movies at the end of the day, that I'm always willing to go back and revisit and sometimes have different experiences.

Anyway, glad you finally got something out of it.

 

[The Joker]

If it was April 1st I'd swear Tacit was pulling our legs. Talk about doing a 180.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I think the biggest problem of Rises for me now is the fallout from the truth behind Dent: as in there was none. I mean, Bane was gonna release the prisoners anyways, so whatever. And since the movie didn't focus on Gothamites we never got their reaction.

The other problem was the dissonace between redeeming the cops (as dramatized by Foley) and Blake's arc. At the end you see the police are celebrating, they are redeemed. But right after you see Blake throw away his badge, because the structure of the police force is too restricted. So, the movie is redeeming and condemning cops?

 

[Brother Jack]

The other problem was the dissonace between redeeming the cops (as dramatized by Foley) and Blake's arc. At the end you see the police are celebrating, they are redeemed. But right after you see Blake throw away his badge, because the structure of the police force is too restricted. So, the movie is redeeming and condemning cops?

It's saying that Blake doesn't belong in the GCPD, in the system as it were. Because vigilantism is his future, to be the anonymous symbol when it is needed again. It's an isolated and unique experience for one person.