The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge

[Tacit Ronin]

Maybe they will use the 'vibrate the very molecules in the air to appear aesthetically different' explanation.

 

[Brother Jack]

As cool as that opening fight was in the trailer and as good as Affleck's Batman may be, it's still very disappointing to me that the signs are pointing towards Superman getting upstaged yet again. I feel like I was barely reintroduced to him in the last movie and he's already being overshadowed by Batman and the JL. I really wish WB/DC had focused on a Superman trilogy first after Man of Steel and left the other stuff for later.

 

[titansupes]

I'm worried that I haven't seen anything beyond the most superficial stuff (the costumes, the Batfighting) worth getting excited over.

 

[The Joker]

As cool as that opening fight was in the trailer and as good as Affleck's Batman may be, it's still very disappointing to me that the signs are pointing towards Superman getting upstaged yet again. I feel like I was barely reintroduced to him in the last movie and he's already being overshadowed by Batman and the JL. I really wish WB/DC had focused on a Superman trilogy first after Man of Steel and left the other stuff for later.

Not surprising considering the whole reason they were putting Batman in it is because he's a way cooler character to audiences than Superman is.

Hopefully one day we'll get a creative team that can make Superman as cool as the great Chris Reeve was.

 

[Decepticonus]

My problems with Luthor, Doomsday, glossy CG, Wonder Woman, and the story in general haven't changed even after the last trailer... which just tells me WB cares only about Batman and nobody else.

He makes them money, that's why ugh.

 

[The Shape]

Yes, Batman makes WB money, but the notion that "WB only cares about Batman and nobody else" is pretty silly at this point, as if WB somehow sent out a mandate to the BvS crew that read, "It doesn't matter if everyone else is in the film sucks, as long as Batman is great".

An individual's issues with elements that have been presented in trailers -- while being pleased with the Batman elements -- does not equate to WB only caring about Batman.

 

[Decepticonus]

Yes, Batman makes WB money, but the notion that "WB only cares about Batman and nobody else" is pretty silly at this point, as if WB somehow sent out a mandate to the BvS crew that read, "It doesn't matter if everyone else is in the film sucks, as long as Batman is great".

An individual's issues with elements that have been presented in trailers -- while being pleased with the Batman elements -- does not equate to WB only caring about Batman.

Keep in mind Snyder is a HUGE Superman fan. He was looking forward to making MoS ever since Watchmen. Even when asked who wins in a fight he said Superman. He admitted Batman was a bad ass but said back to the audience "But really?" He personally found it odd when people criticized him for liking Superman. Of course WB could pull some strings to make Batman outshine Superman, but would Snyder agree to that? I think not and both the director and the studio have to be able to come to agreement when making a film.

 

[The Joker]

Keep in mind Snyder is a HUGE Superman fan. He was looking forward to making MoS ever since Watchmen. Even when asked who wins in a fight he said Superman. He admitted Batman was a bad ass but said back to the audience "But really?" He personally found it odd when people criticized him for liking Superman. Of course WB could pull some strings to make Batman outshine Superman, but would Snyder agree to that? I think not and both the director and the studio have to be able to come to agreement when making a film.

Sam Raimi and Spider-Man 3 would disagree. I'm sure there's other examples, but he's the one that always springs to mind when it comes to studios muscling in on the creative decisions of movies and going over the director's head.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

He was looking forward to making MoS ever since Watchmen.

Is this another one of their history revisions? I very clearly remember reading Snyder being hesitant to take on Superman until Nolan had to convince him.

And ever Since Watchmen? The very concept for MOS didn't even exist then.

Yes, Batman makes WB money, but the notion that "WB only cares about Batman and nobody else" is pretty silly at this point, as if WB somehow sent out a mandate to the BvS crew that read, "It doesn't matter if everyone else is in the film sucks, as long as Batman is great".

Wasn't there reports of WB wanting more Batman footage in the film at the expense of everybody else?

 

[Decepticonus]

Sam Raimi and Spider-Man 3 would disagree. I'm sure there's other examples, but he's the one that always springs to mind when it comes to studios muscling in on the creative decisions of movies and going over the director's head.

Regardless, he agreed to it. He didn't have to and just check out instead. Good point, but don't forget in the end - it's the studios' film, not the director's.

Is this another one of their history revisions? I very clearly remember reading Snyder being hesitant to take on Superman until Nolan had to convince him.

And ever Since Watchmen? The very concept for MOS didn't even exist then.
?

Revision? No, but I am not aware of that story at all.
And to be more precise he wanted to do "a" Superman movie after Watchmen, given that Watchmen is really not a hopeful story at all unlike Superman usually is.

I think it is fair to say we will get more Batfleck than Supes, since he does have top billing.

 

[The Joker]

Wasn't there reports of WB wanting more Batman footage in the film at the expense of everybody else?

Yes:

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2015/09/...superman-in-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice

It was reported as a rumor so it may not be true. But it sounds plausible.

Regardless, he agreed to it. He didn't have to and just check out instead. Good point, but don't forget in the end - it's the studios' film, not the director's.

He had no choice. He was contracted to do 3, and the studio made demands on certain creative decisions that he had to accept. Like Venom. Raimi's original concept for the third movie had Sandman and the Vulture as the villains, but Sony in their infinite wisdom decided the fans want Venom and made Raimi axe Vulture and replace him with Venom.

Raimi later admitted he had no real creative control over Spider-Man 3;

“They really gave me a tremendous amount of control on the first two films, actually,” Raimi told British magazine Empire. “But then there were different opinions on the third film and I didn’t really have creative control, so to speak.”

http://www.mtv.com/news/2593893/sam-raimi-wants-full-creative-control-for-spider-man-4/

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying Zack Snyder is in the same boat as Raimi was, or that Batman is the Venom of BvsS. I'm just saying if WB really wanted to pump Batman up over Superman, they could. Snyder would have to like it or lump it.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Revision? No, but I am not aware of that story at all.

Snyder said:

“It's funny, when Nolan came to me and said, 'Do you want to do Superman?' I was like 'No!' That's a difficult one

 

[The Shape]

Keep in mind Snyder is a HUGE Superman fan. He was looking forward to making MoS ever since Watchmen. Even when asked who wins in a fight he said Superman. He admitted Batman was a bad ass but said back to the audience "But really?" He personally found it odd when people criticized him for liking Superman. Of course WB could pull some strings to make Batman outshine Superman, but would Snyder agree to that? I think not and both the director and the studio have to be able to come to agreement when making a film.

I'm not even bringing Snyder's own feelings into the conversation. But people often like to say that WB only cares about Batman, which is kind of silly, as they are literally in the process of attempting to launch a universe full of other characters.

I agree that Batman so far is seemingly the best element of BvS that we've seen thus far, but I don't think that necessarily somehow becomes WB's fault or desire -- to have him be better than everything else.

 

[The Shape]

Yes:

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2015/09/...superman-in-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice

It was reported as a rumor so it may not be true. But it sounds plausible.

Yup, one of the many, many (likely false) BvS rumors to come about in the past few years. This one came from El Mayimbe's site, although you linked to the IGN pick-up.

 

[The Shape]

I'd be interested to see a compiled list of all the BvS rumors of the past 2-3 years, and then see after the film how many were true/false. However, there have been a LOT of unverified rumors and reports about this movie, so I don't know if anyone has the will (or time) to compile a list like that.

 

[The Batman]

Snyder looking forward to MOS since Watchmen is revisionist history. First off, as Tacit's earlier post mentioned, Nolan went to Snyder to hire him. It's not like Snyder sought to make MOS all along. Also:

http://www.mtv.com/news/2594577/war...an-lawsuit-must-produce-movie-sequel-by-2011/


In that article, dated July 09, months after Watchmen came out, its mentioned that Alan Horn testified that there was no director for the next Superman film yet.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, Tacit is 100% correct on that. Snyder was skeptical about doing Superman until he heard Nolan/Goyer's take.

Of course Snyder was talking up Supes at a CC panel full of Superman fans, promoting his Superman movie. And saying he thinks Superman would win in a fight is kind of just stating the obvious and doesn't necessarily mean he likes the character more.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Snyder is more of a Batman fan. Not only was it impossible for him to be looking forward to making MoS after Watchmen (which is impossible as you guys pointed out), but during the promotion of Watchmen he was talking about how his real ultimate dream would be to do Dark Knight Returns.

Fast forward a few years and he's introducing a Miller-influenced Batman into his Superman sequel, which was his idea btw.

I'm also not saying there is any specific agenda at WB to make Batman appear "better"...that kind of makes no sense as they're praying that all of these movies work. But to say that Snyder is a bigger Superman fan...I think he possibly loves both characters equally, but if he hadn't had the experience making Man of Steel I'd guess that he was more of a Batfan. He tends to like darker material in general, and most hardcore Superman fans aren't too fond of DKR.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Is Cavil gonna be the same as Clark as he is as Supes? Based on the snippet of his covo with Wayne in the previous trailer and his convo with Batman in one of the clips, he plays them both exactly the same, just with glasses on for Clark.

I am not asking for the caricature of Reeve's Clark, but jeez, even Routh played Clark as a different person while avoiding being a cartoon.

So far, Clark just seems like he'll be a slightly quieter version of Superman with glasses. A lot of fans love that take on Clark, but I find it absolutely boring. It just makes the disguise seem even more ridiculous than it already is.

Reading these posts made me think of both Superman and Clark Kent sides of Kal-El's life in different interpretations.

The constants about Superman is how he stands as a symbol of hope, has a commanding presence, and does what he can to be a symbol of justice, honor, and modesty.
Different takes on Clark Kent however, matter.

Earth-2 Clark Kent (the original), was a caricature, displays weakness to avoid detection, and to not break anyone, he maintained the facade of anyone can play on him or step on him, to not make anyone suspicious of him.
All Star Superman took that version, and it fits the power level they gave him in that story more than Superman with his powers in the original take by the character creators.

Earth-1 Clark Kent (my favorite take on this persona), is classy, calm, shows weakness sometimes, and people around him confuse his actions and attitude for cowardice, but he displays enough confidence, and is very smart and entertaining in making pranks backfire, one of my favorite moments of that is when his high school bully tried to prank him in their high school reunion by picking him up, Clark held his own foot under a tree root, and hurt the bully's back in the process.

New Earth Clark Kent (Post Crisis on Infinite Earths), stood as the everyday man, he has his ups and downs, has his successes and fails, and had enough lightheartedness to keep him distinguishable from Superman, yet still retained some of the boy scout attitude.

I admittedly love Man of Steel, and most of you probably knew it, but Clark Kent in that movie is not like any version of his in the comics, certainly not one I'm familiar with, and that is a disappointing bit.

I look at Peter Parker in the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies the same way I view CK in MoS, he doesn't come out as any Peter Parker I'm familiar with in the comics, he's more like Ross Gellar from f.r.i.e.n.d.s. in his awkward and dorky demeanor.

 

[The Batman]

Yeah, Tacit is 100% correct on that. Snyder was skeptical about doing Superman until he heard Nolan/Goyer's take.

Of course Snyder was talking up Supes at a CC panel full of Superman fans, promoting his Superman movie. And saying he thinks Superman would win in a fight is kind of just stating the obvious and doesn't necessarily mean he likes the character more.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Snyder is more of a Batman fan. Not only was it impossible for him to be looking forward to making MoS after Watchmen (which is impossible as you guys pointed out), but during the promotion of Watchmen he was talking about how his real ultimate dream would be to do Dark Knight Returns.

Fast forward a few years and he's introducing a Miller-influenced Batman into his Superman sequel, which was his idea btw.

Agreed. It is so obvious, looking at his sensibilities, which character he would gravitate towards more.

I'm also not saying there is any specific agenda at WB to make Batman appear "better"...

Mark Waid, a writer who worked at DC, straight up admitted that WB has a Batman bias:

http://voicesfromkrypton.net/man-of-steel-exclusive-talking-superman-with-mark-waid/

That’s where I grit my teeth – again, I’m not the insider I once was, but I still have my ear to the ground. I’ve talked over and over to the people at DC over the last ten years, and I know what WB’s feeling is about Superman, which is that he’s stupid, he’s corny and why can’t he be more like Batman? Well, because he’s not Batman, but there’s nothing Hollywood loves more than safe bets. So that certainly always informs the tone and direction that this movie was going to have.

 

[The Batman]

Reading these posts made me think of both Superman and Clark Kent sides of Kal-El's life in different interpretations.

The constants about Superman is how he stands as a symbol of hope, has a commanding presence, and does what he can to be a symbol of justice, honor, and modesty.
Different takes on Clark Kent however, matter.

Earth-2 Clark Kent (the original), was a caricature, displays weakness to avoid detection, and to not break anyone, he maintained the facade of anyone can play on him or step on him, to not make anyone suspicious of him.
All Star Superman took that version, and it fits the power level they gave him in that story more than Superman with his powers in the original take by the character creators.

Earth-1 Clark Kent (my favorite take on this persona), is classy, calm, shows weakness sometimes, and people around him confuse his actions and attitude for cowardice, but he displays enough confidence, and is very smart and entertaining in making pranks backfire, one of my favorite moments of that is when his high school bully tried to prank him in their high school reunion by picking him up, Clark held his own foot under a tree root, and hurt the bully's back in the process.

New Earth Clark Kent (Post Crisis on Infinite Earths), stood as the everyday man, he has his ups and downs, has his successes and fails, and had enough lightheartedness to keep him distinguishable from Superman, yet still retained some of the boy scout attitude.

I admittedly love Man of Steel, and most of you probably knew it, but Clark Kent in that movie is not like any version of his in the comics, certainly not one I'm familiar with, and that is a disappointing bit.

I look at Peter Parker in the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies the same way I view CK in MoS, he doesn't come out as any Peter Parker I'm familiar with in the comics, he's more like Ross Gellar from f.r.i.e.n.d.s. in his awkward and dorky demeanor.

I think ideally, Clark's DP persona would be a mix one Earth 1 and 2.

As long as he makes some effort to differentiate the two personas, I'm good.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I wonder what Edgar Wright could do with Superman. He is possibly the only filmmaker I think can deliver the superman I want on film. The bright, optimistic, joyful tone.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I think ideally, Clark's DP persona would be a mix one Earth 1 and 2.

As long as he makes some effort to differentiate the two personas, I'm good.

That would be an interesting take, and if done right, clever remodeling.

 

[BatLobster]

Mark Waid, a writer who worked at DC, straight up admitted that WB has a Batman bias:

http://voicesfromkrypton.net/man-of-steel-exclusive-talking-superman-with-mark-waid/

Well, yeah. I should have re-phrased. Wb has obviously been historically pretty clueless with what to do with Superman and there is a Batman preference there. I guess what I meant is, I don't think they gave Zack Snyder a directive to make Batman seem cooler in this movie. For one, I think a lot of that just comes with the territory- Batman is just naturally "cooler", and then there's the fact they're trying to launch into Justice League where Superman inevitably plays a huge role.

However, I do think we might very well see multiple solo Batfleck films before we see a proper MoS sequel, so I definitely think there is a pro-Batman bias at WB...understandable as he's been the bigger moneymaker. But I also don't think they'd give notes to make Batman appear better in this movie, because I think that's just what they automatically assume happens once you throw Batman into it. If anything I'd think they'd be hoping this movie brings Superman up to Batman's level in the GA's eyes, just by association if nothing else.

I wonder what Edgar Wright could do with Superman. He is possibly the only filmmaker I think can deliver the superman I want on film. The bright, optimistic, joyful tone.

Once you mention Wright, my mind automatically goes to Raimi- who probably could've also done a great job with it, but his Spider-Man movies already were essentially his versions of Donner's Superman movies. If Wright could dial back the quirkiness a tad, but retain the wit, there could be something there.

I also like your earlier suggestion of Matthew Vaughn.

 

[The Batman]

I wonder what Edgar Wright could do with Superman. He is possibly the only filmmaker I think can deliver the superman I want on film. The bright, optimistic, joyful tone.

Edgar Wright would be an interesting, remarkable choice for a Superman movie. Someone like Wright is, IMO, what the franchise needs.

That would be an interesting take, and if done right, clever remodeling.

People can be so quick to throw out old concepts, but those concepts could thrive with the right re tooling. DP Clark being an act doesn't have to always be Reeve-style either.

Well, yeah. I should have re-phrased. Wb has obviously been historically pretty clueless with what to do with Superman and there is a Batman preference there. I guess what I meant is, I don't think they gave Zack Snyder a directive to make Batman seem cooler in this movie. For one, I think a lot of that just comes with the territory- Batman is just naturally "cooler", and then there's the fact they're trying to launch into Justice League where Superman inevitably plays a huge role.

However, I do think we might very well see multiple solo Batfleck films before we see a proper MoS sequel, so I definitely think there is a pro-Batman bias at WB...understandable as he's been the bigger moneymaker. But I also don't think they'd give notes to make Batman appear better in this movie, because I think that's just what they automatically assume happens once you throw Batman into it. If anything I'd think they'd be hoping this movie brings Superman up to Batman's level in the GA's eyes, just by association if nothing else.

I pretty much agree with all of this.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I dunno if people discussed this in the BvS forums or not, but have you guys noticed that Batman's quote -- if their is even a 1% chance of Superman being bad, that we should have to take it as an absolute certainty -- bears disturbing similarities to Dick Cheney's one percent doctrine? If there's a 1% chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al-Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response. It's not about our analysis... It's about our response

Batman has always been a right wing character, but they are pushing him into nutjob territory.