BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 13

[smallville fan]

I don't think Bats should fight any of Superman's rogues. They are all too powerful for him.

What about Metallo?

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[ArmsHeldOut]

I wonder if the relationship between Bruce and Clark in this film will be similar to the one between Terry McGinnis and the elderly Wayne in Batman Beyond.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

What about Metallo?

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Yeah, I have a feeling Snyder's Batman will be a little closer to the highly skilled version of the character we're used to seeing in the comics; and I welcome that.

 

[smallville fan]

I wonder if the relationship between Bruce and Clark in this film will be similar to the one between Terry McGinnis and the elderly Wayne in Batman Beyond.

Bruce won't be THAT old.

There'll be some difference of opinion, then some much needed character development will happen and then they'll respect each other.

 

[smallville fan]

Yeah, I have a feeling Snyder's Batman will be a little closer to the highly skilled version of the character we're used to seeing in the comics; and I welcome that.

Yeah I guess so. He'll definitely be more gadget oriented and Snyder's going out of his way to distance Affleck's Batman from Bale and perhaps make him more like Kevin Conroy's.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Bruce won't be THAT old.

There'll be some difference of opinion, then some much needed character development will happen and then they'll respect each other.

I wasn't suggesting that he'll be the same age. That said, Batman Beyond Bruce is an obviously seasoned version of the character who serves as a mentor figure to young Terry McGinnis; and there are certain parallels to what little we know about the relationship between Clark and Bruce in BvS.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Yeah I guess so. He'll definitely be more gadget oriented and Snyder's going out of his way to distance Affleck's Batman from Bale and perhaps make him more like Kevin Conroy's.

If supposedly normal humans can fight like this in Snyder's Watchmen, can you imagine what his version of Batman will be capable of?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUfArXaxUD4

 

[charl_huntress]

What about Metallo?

Thank you for posting that! I think I'm going to put in PB right now! t:

Here's my problem with that scene... Batman wouldn't have survived any of that. I don't care what kind of armor he has on. He wouldn't have survived, so there is no way he can face that sort of villain without drones or robots of his own. That may be interesting to see, but he as a human in this realistic world wouldn't not have survived any of that.

I wonder if the relationship between Bruce and Clark in this film will be similar to the one between Terry McGinnis and the elderly Wayne in Batman Beyond.

GOD I hope not!!! BB was Bruce Timm's love song to Batman while creating his own Batman. I'll give him props for creating that strong of a character, but I don't want to see that sort of relationship mimicked in MOS2w/Bats.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Here's my problem with that scene... Batman wouldn't have survived any of that. I don't care what kind of armor he has on. He wouldn't have survived, so there is no way he can face that sort of villain without drones or robots of his own. That may be interesting to see, but he as a human in this realistic world wouldn't not have survived any of that.

The world created in MoS isn't realistic though. Goyer and Snyder can throw that word around as much as they like, but almost everything about Superman is far-fetched. People who want an overabundance of realism in their films honestly shouldn't be watching comic book movies.

 

[charl_huntress]

They made it realistic enough for a man who flies and shoots laser beams from his eyes. That is all the realism that matters for me.

 

[Herolee10]

I think when it comes to the term "realism", it shouldn't be applied with the mechanics of the technology that's available for the characters to use within that given world.

I think when Goyer and Snyder meant "realism", they were talking more about how the people within that given world would react to certain situations.

And at the end of the day, isn't that the goal? To create realistic characters that people can emphasize with inside of a fantastical world?

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

They made it realistic enough for a man who flies and shoots laser beams from his eyes. That is all the realism that matters for me.

That, in itself, is practically the definition of unrealistic though. If audiences can accept such, the rest is cake.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I think when it comes to the term "realism", it shouldn't be applied with the mechanics of the technology that's available for the characters to use within that given world.

I think when Goyer and Snyder meant "realism", they were talking more about how the people within that given world would react to certain situations.

And at the end of the day, isn't that the goal? To create realistic characters that people can emphasize with inside of a fantastical world?

I agree with that. My point is that the depiction of Batman we see in the comics and animated series is no more unrealistic than a flying alien who somehow looks like a human male and "shoots laser beams from his eyes". If a person has a problem with one and not the other, some form of bias is at play.

 

[charl_huntress]

But it is though....

Batman can do none of the things he did in the animated series.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

But it is though....

Batman can do none of the things he did in the animated series.

Batman's a fictional character. It depends on how you write him.

In the real world, Batman wouldn't be able to do what he does in the comics and animated series. In the real world, a creature like Superman simply would not exist. We're not dealing with the real world though. It's a comic book adaptation.

 

[charl_huntress]

Batman's a fictional character. It depends on how you write him.

In the real world, Batman wouldn't be able to do what he does in the comics and animated series. In the real world, a creature like Superman simply would not exist. We're not dealing with the real world though. It's a comic book adaptation.

Okay...but we are talking about this world. Superman was shown to weakened by the atmosphere. So in my view there is no way Bats would put himself in a position where he could be smashed by an opponent with more strength.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

The unrealistic (or rather the fictional) aspect is the existence of alien life.

That's very different than having unrealistic humans or unrealistic real world phenomena.

For example,

Cap freezing and surviving in regular old ice for 60 years is unrealistic.

Cap freezing in a fictional element or a fictional alien technology is a different kind of unrealistic. This one tends to feel more real.

It's the same argument with people saying that a Lazarus Pit can feel more realistic than what happened in TDKR.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

So in my view there is no way Bats would put himself in a position where he could be smashed by an opponent with more strength.

I'm just saying that Batman is going to have to be closer to his comic book counterpart in order to keep up with the likes of Superman and Wonder Woman in this film. Otherwise, the relationship won't work.

Christopher Nolan's Batman wouldn't be able to keep up. For that reason and more, Nolan decided against having Superman exist altogether in the world he created in his Dark Knight trilogy.

With Snyder's film, though, Batman, Superman and other DC properties are going to coexist; so, the rules have to change a bit. Batman needs to be a little tougher and a lot more inventive.

 

[charl_huntress]

But if he is close to his comic counterpart then he will be in the cave figuring it out. The thing that always separated Batman for me is his intelligence.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

But if he is close to his comic counterpart then he will be in the cave figuring it out. The thing that always separated Batman for me is his intelligence.

Yeah, and that's how it should be. I still want to see some crazy moves though! Otherwise, he's not much different from Batman Beyond Bruce. I don't want him hiding in the cave for the whole movie.

 

[charl_huntress]

Yeah...I get that....but without his own villain who can he fight?

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Yeah...I get that....but without his own villain who can he fight?

Tougher humans. And he can help to at least distract some of Superman's adversaries.

 

[charl_huntress]

I'm a bigger Supes fan than a Batman fan, but even I want him to do more than that....lol

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I'm a bigger Supes fan than a Batman fan, but even I want him to do more than that....lol

When I say tougher humans, I mean highly skilled combatants. He'll also have no problem with the likes of someone like Luthor. I personally think he can handle Metallo as well.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Batman wouldn't have survived any of that. I don't care what kind of armor he has on.

If we can accept all the unusual things that Superman does in the film, I think we can suspend our disbelief much in the same way and imagine that Bats has the means to create some state of the art protective gear that would help to reduce damage in a fight with someone like Metallo.