BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - Part 35

[BH/HHH]

Man of Steel 3: For The Man Who Has Everything

It would go completely against Superhero tropes and formula.

Plus. The return of Russell Crowe and Michael Shannon t:

Aw hell yes, I would love that

 

[georgec]

Snyder really nailed the last days of Krypton in so many ways. The visuals of stagnation and decay, the hauntingly sad music. I actually love how Jor El dies before Lara and Kal's ship leaves well before the final implosion. It makes it feel more tragic in a way and really hammers home the point that if you know when the world is going to end, you have nothing you can do but wait.

I agree - the Krypton scenes were pretty great.

 

[roach]

It looks like a well made cosplay in retrospect.

like something his mom could have made from a blanket or something

 

[Lencho01]

Tom Welling as Green Lantern?

But, it's for Sector 2813...

SMALLVILLE SEASON 11: LANTERN #1
Written by BRYAN Q. MILLER
Art by MARCIO TAKARA
Cover by CAT STAGGS
On sale APRIL 16 • 40 pg, FC, 1 of 4, $3.99 US RATED T • DIGITAL FIRST
The Green Lantern ring for space sector 2813 was inactive for years after Krypton’s end, until the creation of the Argo colony recalled it to service. As none of Zod’s followers are suitable candidates, the ring’s search brings it to the nearest Kryptonian it can recruit! SMALLVILLE SEASON 11 continues in “Lantern” part 1 of 4!

 

[BH/HHH]

Was loving the Smallville comic but with my wedding looming I had to drop my comics.

 

[roach]

Question.

Everytime I watch MoS I'm always intrigued by the codex. Why does it look like an ancient skull? Is it meant to be the progenitor of the modern Kryptonian race?

Has this been explained in anything like the directors commentary or a prequel comic, etc?

The Yahoo fan event was, IMO, a bust but there were some interesting nuggets that came out of it and one of them was the thinking behind the codex. I think it's on youtube if you want to watch it.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Question.

Everytime I watch MoS I'm always intrigued by the codex. Why does it look like an ancient skull? Is it meant to be the progenitor of the modern Kryptonian race?

Has this been explained in anything like the directors commentary or a prequel comic, etc?

It's a device whose mystery is only exceeded by its power.

 

[Marvin]

Too bad he ruined it by dragging it on for 10 mins more than it needed.

Seems people in this this thread disagree. Pretty much my experience reading reviews in this prose.

Question.

Everytime I watch MoS I'm always intrigued by the codex. Why does it look like an ancient skull? Is it meant to be the progenitor of the modern Kryptonian race?

Has this been explained in anything like the directors commentary or a prequel comic, etc?

It's actually representational of what KalEL has become(a walking sperm bank of sorts). If this series wanted to get into tragic SciFi and really wanted to piss of the Superman GA and Fanboys in particular, they would literally have that be Superman's skull when all is said and done. That's what I could see a Morrison doing in a maxi.

Anyways, if it is another soul with dna encoded onto itself it begs the question of just how did it come about. Perhaps it had something to do with brainiac.

 

[roach]

It's actually representational of what KalEL has become. If this series wanted to get into tragic SciFi and really wanted to piss of the Superman GA and Fanboys in particular, they would literally have that be Superman's skull when all is said and done. That's what I could see a Morrison doing in a maxi.

didn't they already?

 

[Marvin]

didn't they already?

No, they just poked at them alittle. Fate is where the real tragedy of things can be explored, with origins there is always 'hope'
Superman's fate is holy ground.

 

[Rowsdower!]

The funny thing about all the fanboys trashing this movie for minor changes is, they don't know just how close they came to a Superman movie that took the source material and urinated all over it. I remember reading a summary of JJ Abrams' Superman script about 10 years ago and flipping the **** out. That thing was absolutely horrible. Even Cavill (who would have played Superman had that movie gone into production) couldn't have saved that garbage.

 

[roach]

The funny thing about all the fanboys trashing this movie for minor changes is, they don't know just how close they came to a Superman movie that took the source material and urinated all over it. I remember reading a summary of JJ Abrams' Superman script about 10 years ago and flipping the **** out. That thing was absolutely horrible. Even Cavill (who would have played Superman had that movie gone into production) couldn't have saved that garbage.

That's why I don't think certain directors on superhero movies are a slam dunk. JJ Abrams is one of my favorite directors and I await his Star Wars but his Superman would have been crap.
Bryan Singer has done miracles with the X-Men but couldn't get Superman.
A lot of people worship the ground Whedon walks on but just because Avengers made a lot of money does not mean every superhero he touches would be the same.

 

[Rowsdower!]

That's why I don't think certain directors on superhero movies are a slam dunk. JJ Abrams is one of my favorite directors and I await his Star Wars but his Superman would have been crap.
Bryan Singer has done miracles with the X-Men but couldn't get Superman.
A lot of people worship the ground Whedon walks on but just because Avengers made a lot of money does not mean every superhero he touches would be the same.

I completely agree. Abrams in particular has a real problem with story. He writes great characters, but when it comes to the stories themselves, he's often very derivative and relies a little too much on coincidence and "the unexplained." Singer couldn't get Superman right because his knowledge of the character consisted of two dated movies. And while The Avengers was great, not everything Whedon does is amazing. Agents of SHIELD is lame in every sense of the word, though I'm sure The Question will tell you up and down how it's the greatest thing since sliced bread while bashing every single aspect of Man of Steel that he can think of.

 

[Marvin]

I like Whedon but he was given a big opportunity(about time imo) with that film. If we lived in a universe where Whedon was only given Thor to direct...And Vaughn was given Avengers that would be that.

I do think Whedon was be great on Xmen though. His arc is still one of my favorite.

 

[Crimson King]

I completely agree. Abrams in particular has a real problem with story. He writes great characters, but when it comes to the stories themselves, he's often very derivative and relies a little too much on coincidence and "the unexplained." Singer couldn't get Superman right because his knowledge of the character consisted of two dated movies. And while The Avengers was great, not everything Whedon does is amazing. Agents of SHIELD is lame in every sense of the word, though I'm sure The Question will tell you up and down how it's the greatest thing since sliced bread while bashing every single aspect of Man of Steel that he can think of.

To be fair, it's his brother running that show. Joss Whedon is responsible for the idea behind it.

I think Marvel got Joss Whedon for one purpose: he gets superhero ensemble movies. He wouldn't be a fit for everything, but he does that well.

 

[Dk1201]

Confession time I still haven't seen Man of Steel.... Should I watch it before Batman vs Superman?

 

[roach]

I completely agree. Abrams in particular has a real problem with story. He writes great characters, but when it comes to the stories themselves, he's often very derivative and relies a little too much on coincidence and "the unexplained." Singer couldn't get Superman right because his knowledge of the character consisted of two dated movies. And while The Avengers was great, not everything Whedon does is amazing. Agents of SHIELD is lame in every sense of the word, though I'm sure The Question will tell you up and down how it's the greatest thing since sliced bread while bashing every single aspect of Man of Steel that he can think of.

I think Singer's problem was he was trying to give us what we thought we wanted instead of making a movie that he'd watch. People love the Donner films..as do I..and so he thought people would love a sequel to those films. People have/had been saying that they wanted a character lead movie.
I think if he just set out out to do a movie without thinking of the audience then we would have had a better Superman movie.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I think Singer's problem was he was trying to give us what we thought we wanted instead of making a movie that he'd watch. People love the Donner films..as do I..and so he thought people would love a sequel to those films. People have/had been saying that they wanted a character lead movie.
I think if he just set out out to do a movie without thinking of the audience then we would have had a better Superman movie.

Honestly, I felt it was the opposite. I think he made the movie that he wanted to see, because he was so in love with the Donner films. I guess he probably thought that the audience wanted that too, but really, SR seemed more like his own little Donner fanfic to me.

 

[InJustice]

Singer's problem was making a movie around one demographic.

For instance,
"Half of that I understand and half of it I never will. It was a movie made for a certain kind of audience. Perhaps more of a female audience. It wasn’t what it needed to be, I guess."

There's nothing wrong with including women in the comic book demographic, because they are familiar with the iconography of the superheroes. But it feels like he included women at the cost of alienating other people within the CBM demographic. Hence, the real ****** drama and lack of characterization in the film. Hell, Luthor is the villain but he doesn't really act villainous...he's just there to troll.

At least Donner and his writers knew what they were doing. The romance and drama in STM and SII didn't really feel like they were made for one demographic in mind.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Confession time I still haven't seen Man of Steel.... Should I watch it before Batman vs Superman?

This guy has jokes.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Confession time I still haven't seen Man of Steel.... Should I watch it before Batman vs Superman?

Well it's a sequel to MOS first and foremost, so yes.

 

[The Shape]

Confession time I still haven't seen Man of Steel.... Should I watch it before Batman vs Superman?

 

[J.Howlett]

Honestly, I felt it was the opposite. I think he made the movie that he wanted to see, because he was so in love with the Donner films. I guess he probably thought that the audience wanted that too, but really, SR seemed more like his own little Donner fanfic to me.

In Singer's defense, I get why he went with a sequel. I mean, we *****, moan, and scream about too many origin films and Singer kind of took that to heart.

I mean, of all the great comic book characters, who's origin is the most well known? And if Donner nailed it like everything believes he did (especially the opening 50 minutes), why rehash it?

I do like the fact that Superman Returns was a sequel to Donner's film. At the same time, given the shooting script, had Singer done some rearrange with the film in the front half and the back half, I think it would've been a more successful film.

At the same time, I get it. It had been a long time since Donner's film. He probably should've started the slate clean and yet at the same time, not do another origin film as well.

At the end of the day, I'm kind of glad that it closes the thematic loop that began with Donner's film. It at least has that going for it.

 

[roach]

To be fair, it's his brother running that show. Joss Whedon is responsible for the idea behind it.

I think Marvel got Joss Whedon for one purpose: he gets superhero ensemble movies. He wouldn't be a fit for everything, but he does that well.

I don't think that's the reason. What superhero ensemble movie has he directed before Avengers? I think Marvel got Whedon for two reasons 1) he's a fan favorite and 2) He's cheap

 

[BatLobster]

I think Superman Returns is kind of in an awkward position. I feel like it almost needed to happen in order to make people realize that they didn't want a continuation of the Donner-verse as much as they thought they did. It helped create hunger for a full-on reboot, which is where the franchise really needed to be. And they didn't do themselves any favors by writing themselves into a corner with the kid, which nobody was clamoring to see more of in the sequel.

That said, MoS kind of showed that a lot of people don't really know what they want in a Superman movie, but I think the main reason for MoS's lukewarm reaction is just the high, high expectations based on the trailers and the Nolan-heavy marketing.