BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 96

[Marvin]

No but when the news gets a glimpse of the batmobile from a helicopter that would pretty much cinch it.

Lois figured out who Clark was based solely on rumor and innuendo...the Batman fighting crime in Gotham whether against the major rogues or just the mob would not be hidden n a world of surveillance and openess. This isnt grainy footage of Big Foot taken in the forest, these would be videos in high def taken, and not just one or two (like most urban legends) out in the middle of nowhere but hundreds if not thousnds of them of him running around one of the biggest cities in the country. Someone would have looked into it and it would not be hard to connect the dots.

it just doesnt pass the smell test...

I fear for this production in that it's not a matter of what they aim to do making sense but as last time(see Jon's death), people outright not getting it regardless.

Alot of people are buying into the bolded. I actually see it a lot and I fear it's one of the major hang ups contending with the myth idea. However it reads to me as to the precise way people are coming about this wrong. For example: Santa Claus is an Urban myth, simply seeing his 'tech' make an appearance during the parade or any other instance(non magical of course) doesn't actually negate the premise that he's an urban legend. If anything that stuff inherently enforces and fuels it, especially those ready to believe(see kids), in batman's case, the superstitious and cowardly, corrupt, the downtrodden civilians, orphans..etc. The batsignal every night and within view of Arkham/Jail windows is a master class on this on this sort of hoax/conspiracy.
That is, seeing this fancy high tech car driving around every so often, but never seeing who in fact is driving it, could easily be seen by the skeptics(such as Perry or Martha may be) as...elaborate to say the least. Something that maybe a Clark Kent(with a special interest in metas) would be sent down to Gotham to investigate and get to the truth of.

That people would even correlate the most recent vehicle to 'the batman' is a stretch imo. Gone are the 90's where the 'batmobile' had bat symbols on the hubcaps. Seriously, you see that thing roll by some windy after noon and unless you read comic books or follow current movie news you aren't entirely entitled to think you saw this thing they call the 'batmobile' but rather some terrorist vehicle or some movie prop(on a film shoot) or a bunch of things.

One has to understand just what it takes to prove a myth true. Just how much footage and eyewitness reports does there need to exist for BigFoot himself to step out of the myth realm into the fact realm? Serious question.
Just how many youtube videos and roswell conspiracies until aliens are a fact? Perhaps like in MOS it will take a city battle and truly coming forward. Till then, myth's will be myths.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I pointed to it as an example of people previously believing the totally implausible because it was presented as is within a fictional movie.

No organisation like The League of Shadows as presented in Batman Begins or Hydra as presented in First Avenger / The Winter Soldier could ever exist. They're both completely implausible, on the level of Batman and all of his characteristics being completely implausible.

Yet people find those organizations easier to believe, for whatever reason. Including myself. You cannot expect others to alter their threshold of belief with these things. It never works.

 

[Marvin]

Is it necessary that she dress like the American flag?

Come now DA, surely you understand that she is DCU's captain america in premise as well as execution.

That is, I personally don't understand the american flag(let alone any country) colours myself, outside of a 50's tv show in which she was in the army and comic serials around those mid century war times. I often get into how as fans we tend to not always criticize what's in front of us for what it is and based on it's own merits or logic but rather...how close it is to our preconceived notions often times derived from source material. The recent ninja turtles aesthetics for example.

I'd personally rather wonder woman look like an ageless amazon god tbh, not so much a walking propaganda ad. But then again, I fancy myself open to most any direction.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Am I the only one who thinks Batman as an urban legend is silly? The concept of Batman is pretty silly, period.

Aside from the silliness of the idea of Batman, he's supposed to be a legend, but there is a big searchlight with his logo on it on top of the GCPD, and it lights in the sky almost every night

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

^A GCPD custom: hanging the shadow of the bat over the city every now and then -- a sign to the criminals that the city doesn't belong to them

 

[Lencho01]

Aside from the silliness of the idea of Batman, he's supposed to be a legend, but there is a big searchlight with his logo on it on top of the GCPD, and it lights in the sky almost every night

That too. t:

It's just interesting that people have some sort of cut off as to how long the guy can be a legend when the idea of it really makes no sense within a real world context. So, now you're dealing with it from a fictional context, where anything can happen according to TPTB. So, if they say this Batman tries his best to be kept a secret, then so be it.

 

[DA_Champion]

Yet people find those organizations easier to believe, for whatever reason. Including myself. You cannot expect others to alter their threshold of belief with these things. It never works.

If you're believing everything except what Snyder/Terrio/Goyer contribute even when it's less fantastical than what was already there then you're likely to have a hard time with the movie regardless.

And I'm sure James Gunn knew that people wouldn't believe that Peter Quill could survive being in space for thirty seconds ... he did it anyway. Good for him.

 

[dhandler01]

I fear for this production in that it's not a matter of what they aim to do making sense but as last time(see Jon's death), people outright not getting it regardless.

Alot of people are buying into the bolded. I actually see it a lot and I fear it's one of the major hang ups contending with the myth idea. However it reads to me as to the precise way people are coming about this wrong. For example: Santa Claus is an Urban myth, simply seeing his 'tech' make an appearance during the parade or any other instance(non magical of course) doesn't actually negate the premise that he's an urban legend. If anything that stuff inherently enforces and fuels it, especially those ready to believe(see kids), in batman's case, the superstitious and cowardly, corrupt, the downtrodden civilians, orphans..etc. The batsignal every night and within view of Arkham/Jail windows is a master class on this on this sort of hoax/conspiracy.
That is, seeing this fancy high tech car driving around every so often, but never seeing who in fact is driving it, could easily be seen by the skeptics(such as Perry or Martha may be) as...elaborate to say the least. Something that maybe a Clark Kent(with a special interest in metas) would be sent down to Gotham to investigate and get to the truth of.

That people would even correlate the most recent vehicle to 'the batman' is a stretch imo. Gone are the 90's where the 'batmobile' had bat symbols on the hubcaps. Seriously, you see that thing roll by some windy after noon and unless you read comic books or follow current movie news you aren't entirely entitled to think you saw this thing they call the 'batmobile' but rather some terrorist vehicle or some movie prop(on a film shoot) or a bunch of things.

One has to understand just what it takes to prove a myth true. Just how much footage and eyewitness reports does there need to exist for BigFoot himself to step out of the myth realm into the fact realm? Serious question.
Just how many youtube videos and roswell conspiracies until aliens are a fact? Perhaps like in MOS it will take a city battle and truly coming forward. Till then, myth's will be myths.

All I am saying is it doesnt make any sense. They could make it work but on its face it sounds ridiculous. It isnt like I am going to boycott the movie over it I just it find it laughable, but in reality so is the entire concept of Batman anyways.

The reason why none of us really buy it though is because it is a plot point that isnt needed. Putting hard numbers on stuff allows for plot holes, the best way to do things like this is be as vague as possible.

That is why the LOS worked as a concept...it wasnt like they were running around in the open talking up their plans and so on...they stay in secret and only come out when they feel a city has grown too big and corrupt. It isnt like they took down a country every week, they showed up when they deemed themselves needed.

My guess is this Batman has been around a while but operates very little to avoid exposure. There will be urban myths about him which keep his legend alive but I doubt he has gone out every night for the past X amount of years striking fear into the hearts of the wicked.

The problem isnt the concept, the problem is locking in a set time period IMHO. Why paint yourself into a corner for no reason?

 

[dhandler01]

That too. t:

It's just interesting that people have some sort of cut off as to how long the guy can be a legend when the idea of it really makes no sense within a real world context. So, now you're dealing with it from a fictional context, where anything can happen according to TPTB. So, if they say this Batman tries his best to be kept a secret, then so be it.

So why not leave it at that...why put a number on it? Just say "Legends of a vigilante in Gotham have been around for years." Boom done.

 

[Lencho01]

So why not leave it at that...why put a number on it? Just say "Legends of a vigilante in Gotham have been around for years." Boom done.

I don't know. Because fans and adults seem to want everything explained.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

You can't say Batman's an urban legend for years. One flaw.

Dick Grayson.

If he exists, it defeats Batman being an urban legend. Criminals know Robin is Nightwing.

You can't tell me Batman can be an urban legend. Maybe in the beginning but not with Batfleck.

Even if Grayson doesn't exist, there's Gordon. Why have a giant flashlight in top of the GCPD for an urban legend?

 

[Travesty]

For example: Santa Claus is an Urban myth, simply seeing his 'tech' make an appearance during the parade or any other instance(non magical of course) doesn't actually negate the premise that he's an urban legend. If anything that stuff inherently enforces and fuels it, especially those ready to believe(see kids), in batman's case, the superstitious and cowardly, corrupt, the downtrodden civilians, orphans..etc. The batsignal every night and within view of Arkham/Jail windows is a master class on this on this sort of hoax/conspiracy.
That is, seeing this fancy high tech car driving around every so often, but never seeing who in fact is driving it, could easily be seen by the skeptics(such as Perry or Martha may be) as...elaborate to say the least. Something that maybe a Clark Kent(with a special interest in metas) would be sent down to Gotham to investigate and get to the truth of.

I could get on board with this comparison, if every citizen in Gotham was a 5-6 year old.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

You can compare Bats to Santa.

Santa comes out once a year, Bats is out every night.

 

[WBwins]

Snyder said Superman was the first public hero in the DCCU.But that was a long time ago.That plot piont could easily have changed especially considering the decision to have Bats be Older

 

[Travesty]

Snyder said Superman was the first public hero in the DCCU.But that was a long time ago.That plot piont could easily have changed especially considering the decision to have Bats be Older

Exactly, things change all the time. Just like how Nolan said he wouldn't use Robin.

 

[WBwins]

Exactly, things change all the time. Just like how Nolan said he wouldn't use Robin.

Exactly.or like Snyder said wed be getting a Lex that was a cross between Richard Branson and Bradpitt

 

[TheNextNolan22]

http://batman-news.com/2014/09/14/gotham-review-youve-never-seen-city-quite-like/

 

[Enriquespy]

And I'm sure James Gunn knew that people wouldn't believe that Peter Quill could survive being in space for thirty seconds ...

People can suvive in space for 30 seconds.

Just not as unharmed as him.

 

[BatFan1979]

People can suvive in space for 30 seconds.

Just not as unharmed as him.

And not to take the topic too far, but isnt Quill only half human? Maybe his body handles space differently? Just a thought....okay- BvS!

 

[Marvin]

I could get on board with this comparison, if every citizen in Gotham was a 5-6 year old.

Forget Gotham,
I'm starting to question the avg age of the members on this very board.
t:

You can compare Bats to Santa.

Santa comes out once a year, Bats is out every night.

...

 

[Jekecy]

I actually see it a lot and I fear it's one of the major hang ups contending with the myth idea. However it reads to me as to the precise way people are coming about this wrong. For example: Santa Claus is an Urban myth, simply seeing his 'tech' make an appearance during the parade or any other instance(non magical of course) doesn't actually negate the premise that he's an urban legend. If anything that stuff inherently enforces and fuels it, especially those ready to believe(see kids), in batman's case, the superstitious and cowardly, corrupt, the downtrodden civilians, orphans..etc. The batsignal every night and within view of Arkham/Jail windows is a master class on this on this sort of hoax/conspiracy.
That is, seeing this fancy high tech car driving around every so often, but never seeing who in fact is driving it, could easily be seen by the skeptics(such as Perry or Martha may be) as...elaborate to say the least. Something that maybe a Clark Kent(with a special interest in metas) would be sent down to Gotham to investigate and get to the truth of.

One has to understand just what it takes to prove a myth true. Just how much footage and eyewitness reports does there need to exist for BigFoot himself to step out of the myth realm into the fact realm? Serious question.
Just how many youtube videos and roswell conspiracies until aliens are a fact? Perhaps like in MOS it will take a city battle and truly coming forward. Till then, myth's will be myths.

A military spec'd tank/automobile hybrid riding through a metropolitan city, on a daily/weekly/monthly basis, potentially passing through millions of citizens...proof is going to be easily attained at some point.

That's a far cry from the blurry AND distant footage associated with Big Foot and UFOs.

This is coming from someone who doesn't mind the 20+ year myth theory. Even though it's a stretch, it's no more ridiculous than him surviving that long anyway.

But adding such a public presentation to the mix? Nope. Sorry, I can't roll with that.

If I had to guess, I think this Batmobile is a new addition to his arsenal. And partly his loud introduction to the world.

 

[Marvin]

I asked what the spec tank was proof of exactly.
Half the people on the internet wouldn't have even guessed it had anything to do with this batman movie had they not been told.

I see a suped up black hummer tank racing down my Toronto streets tmr and just which superhero am I going to associate that with exactly. After I assume it's not some movie prop of course.

All I am saying is it doesnt make any sense. They could make it work but on its face it sounds ridiculous. It isnt like I am going to boycott the movie over it I just it find it laughable, but in reality so is the entire concept of Batman anyways.

The reason why none of us really buy it though is because it is a plot point that isnt needed. Putting hard numbers on stuff allows for plot holes, the best way to do things like this is be as vague as possible.

That is why the LOS worked as a concept...it wasnt like they were running around in the open talking up their plans and so on...they stay in secret and only come out when they feel a city has grown too big and corrupt. It isnt like they took down a country every week, they showed up when they deemed themselves needed.

My guess is this Batman has been around a while but operates very little to avoid exposure. There will be urban myths about him which keep his legend alive but I doubt he has gone out every night for the past X amount of years striking fear into the hearts of the wicked.

The problem isnt the concept, the problem is locking in a set time period IMHO. Why paint yourself into a corner for no reason?

Batman doesn't operate the way spiderman does, in that comparison alone there is enough room to have this approach work. It's only getting people to forgo the giant public battles they seem to think come along with the character that's the crutch. Even in the end there you describe what it would take to go with this but only to add that it's some sort of 'corner'. It's a corner if you did it with spiderman sure but with batman..., sorry all that stuff he did in the 90's kinda makes no sense any more sure but it's not the only way to do this stuff.

There is still a fully functional prolific narrative that can be called batman here. For example, Blade's entire life and public relations short of the second sequel but actually including the first... It's not some corner one has been painted into but rather a different approach that works in it's own right. Things work differently in the real word. Regardless of that batsignal.
I'm thinking now even of the 50 year 'myth' that was the winter soldier(and by central intelligence no less), and how after that film he probably still was a non reality by the general public simply given how big the world is and works.

I'd go so far as to say if people saw a man dressed like batman, the logical conclusion would be that it's a man dressed up like batman and not actually the myth made flesh(caught on camera or not), again see the Santa paradigm in the real(our) world.

 

[C. Lee]

Animation of that art is a thing to adore, even for someone like me who hates the story

For such situations there is always Option C: Say nothing

I know there is....BUT....my post was in response to how 2 posters had just reacted to someone asking questions....poster A tried to answer his questions, poster B made fun of him and called him a troll for daring to ask the questions.

 

[I Am The Knight]

What I don't understand is why some people are desperately trying to defend the urban legend thing it just seems so silly. "No, you must understand this makes so much sense!!"

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Read JLA 35 today, Specter (Hal Jordan) confronted Superman with his killing of Zod and his gang. Superman hates it, and wished to take back what he did, but still thought it was necessary

I know there is....BUT....my post was in response to how 2 posters had just reacted to someone asking questions....poster A tried to answer his questions, poster B made fun of him and called him a troll for daring to ask the questions.

The ones trolling could take that suggestion to heart