Duncan Jones' Warcraft - Part 2

[Tim_Riggins]

The thing with critics is that the really good ones will be more knowledgeable, like being able to identify good cinematography, or good acting, or good storytelling, or good direction, or good sound design, etc, etc.

You ask the average joe, he could think Transformers is awesome, but won't know better. Like someone who only saw like a hundred movies in his lifetime will be less knowledgeable than a true cinephile.

This is probably very condescending, but it is what it is, and there is truth in that. Now, even great critics have their guilty pleasures, or will love something that puzzles you, like with every movie and every person.

 

[Iceman]

Fantasy stuff like this is one my favourite genres and I like the Warcraft universe, but the trailers for this felt a bit off. I would have preferred them make the orcs good guys in a sequel rather than the first film.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

Well, it's what got Blizzard really onboard, giving equal narrative weight to both sides, it's a smart move and fresh. The marketing really let the movie down, the trailers they showed to fans at PAX were infinitely superior.

 

[Iceman]

It does sound fresh but like the Vader twist, might work better after they've established their universe and orcs as primarily a great threat in the first film before we see the other side.

 

[Light]

Now this, is a real review from someone whose opinion actual matters.

Not a "critic". Just a guy like the rest of us.

Lol I take it your mocking me, I know its ironic me saying don't listen to the critics but then hoping for you to listen to me. Like a poster above says its best to form your own opinion, personally I loved the movie and cant wait for a sequel. I found the Orcs lifestyle interesting and loved how bound by honor they was. The film was so immersive to me that I actually gave a dam about CGI characters and was gutted when a certain

Spoiler

chieftain died

Spoiler

looking forward to the sequels and seeing his son kick ass.

Lothar would have been more bad ass if Travis wasn't essentially playing a Ragnar light here.

Spoiler

The end when he fights black hand though and just takes him out so easily and the Orcs honor the duel by letting him leave.

. I saw this in 3D by the way, first 3D movie I have ever loved (I liked Tin-Tin in 3D but wearing glasses to watch a movie has never appealed to me. This film should make bank though and I think people will come away loving the Orcs, this movie in no way compares to all the other video game movies and is definitely in a league of its own.

 

[Abudefduf]

Game of Thrones is not the first nor did Tolkien invent orcs.

He sort of did though. I know he borrowed the name from Beowulf and the general idea of a malevolent race of creatures (the "goblins") from George MacDonald, but still. The "fantasy orc" as we know it today wouldn't exist if it wasn't for him.

Same goes for many classic fantasy elements, actually, but I digress.

I'm not happy about the mixed reception. Hopefully if it's not horrible it still manages to be a decent hit, because we really need a successful fantasy flick that proves the genre's potential and paves the way for more of them in the future. Well, at least I need it, lol.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

It's not me being a contrarian or puking on the reviews, because hell, if the movie had great reviews (which was never going to happen anyway), I'd probably be saying something else, but I'm sure that regardless of the quality of a video game adaptation, just it being, precisely, a video game adaptation will have some critics hating it.

I kinda hate the disdain some critics here are clearly exhibiting towards the videogame medium.

 

[Mask&Cape]

What I was pointing out was that you were placing value on anither commenters opinion. What is the difference between a forum member and a professional critic? Only that you relate to and trust their perspective.

Who said that I rely on critics to form my opinion? What I do value is discussion and analysis. That's why I'm on these boards. Other people can notice things that someone else might not or bring a different perspective to it. What professional critics offer is no different really than the thoughts offered by other commenters here except that many are trained writers, able to present their ideas in an organized manner. A good piece of criticism is a good piece of writing regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

Can relate to him? Yes I suppose since like me he probably just goes to the movies for a bit of entertainment like myself with no other motives or baggage.

Trust his opinion? Yes, for the same reasons - I may not agree with his opinion but he has no other motive or baggage about why he is there. What is wrong with that?

I don't trust "professional" critics, I suppose, because of that. Also, it is simply they serve no true value. What is the point of reading any "professional" review on a book, film, etc. just go experience it for yourself.

Another difference is I won't base my decision to see Warcraft or not on the opinion of the chap above either.

Yes, I like the discussion and analysts in places like this too, but that is very different to "professional" critics who do not discuss - they set down in writing or voice their opinions and there is no discussion. Maybe some run their own blogs and do discuss the films with "non-professionals" but again that isn't a review.

And it has nothing to do with being able to write or set out your ideas well. It doesn't mean a critics ideas are of any greater value than yours or mine. And it still isn't a discussion like happens here.

If you had good ideas but could not explain yourself as well as someone else, I would not value you any less.

EDIT: on the topic of presenting opinions, please forgive any misspellings. I'm on an iPhone and my keypad is lagging behind what I'm actually typing.

 

[Mask&Cape]

The thing with critics is that the really good ones will be more knowledgeable, like being able to identify good cinematography, or good acting, or good storytelling, or good direction, or good sound design, etc, etc.

You ask the average joe, he could think Transformers is awesome, but won't know better. Like someone who only saw like a hundred movies in his lifetime will be less knowledgeable than a true cinephile.

This is probably very condescending, but it is what it is, and there is truth in that. Now, even great critics have their guilty pleasures, or will love something that puzzles you, like with every movie and every person.

That is VERY condescending.

I don't like Transformers either but people who do "don't know any better"?

I can't find an emoji to satisfactorily express my dismay.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Lol I take it your mocking me, I know its ironic me saying don't listen to the critics but then hoping for you to listen to me. Like a poster above says its best to form your own opinion, personally I loved the movie and cant wait for a sequel. I found the Orcs lifestyle interesting and loved how bound by honor they was. The film was so immersive to me that I actually gave a dam about CGI characters and was gutted when a certain

Spoiler

chieftain died

Spoiler

looking forward to the sequels and seeing his son kick ass.

Lothar would have been more bad ass if Travis wasn't essentially playing a Ragnar light here.

Spoiler

The end when he fights black hand though and just takes him out so easily and the Orcs honor the duel by letting him leave.

. I saw this in 3D by the way, first 3D movie I have ever loved (I liked Tin-Tin in 3D but wearing glasses to watch a movie has never appealed to me. This film should make bank though and I think people will come away loving the Orcs, this movie in no way compares to all the other video game movies and is definitely in a league of its own.

Dude, not at all. I'm sorry you thought I was mocking but it is genuine.

You are right to say "don't listen to critics listen to me". Like I said above you opinion is of more value some so-called "professional" because you have no motive or baggage going into a film. Like myself, you are there just to be entertained. I might or might not agree with you after I watch it myself but that is beside the point .

 

[redhawk23]

Can relate to him? Yes I suppose since like me he probably just goes to the movies for a bit of entertainment like myself with no other motives or baggage.

Trust his opinion? Yes, for the same reasons - I may not agree with his opinion but he has no other motive or baggage about why he is there. What is wrong with that?

I don't trust "professional" critics, I suppose, because of that. Also, it is simply they serve no true value. What is the point of reading any "professional" review on a book, film, etc. just go experience it for yourself.

Another difference is I won't base my decision to see Warcraft or not on the opinion of the chap above either.

Yes, I like the discussion and analysts in places like this too, but that is very different to "professional" critics who do not discuss - they set down in writing or voice their opinions and there is no discussion. Maybe some run their own blogs and do discuss the films with "non-professionals" but again that isn't a review.

And it has nothing to do with being able to write or set out your ideas well. It doesn't mean a critics ideas are of any greater value than yours or mine. And it still isn't a discussion like happens here.

If you had good ideas but could not explain yourself as well as someone else, I would not value you any less.

EDIT: on the topic of presenting opinions, please forgive any misspellings. I'm on an iPhone and my keypad is lagging behind what I'm actually typing.

Again you were the one harranguing people to "form their own opinions" and then you point out someone's opinion you trust when you yourself haven't seen the film. Many people have critics whose perspectives they trust just the same.

The pattern here is you latched on to someone whose opinion confirmed your own expectations.

The difference between most casual posters posting a review and a really good critic posting a review is that both can say that they like a movie but a great writer can articulate why. They can harness a knowledge of writing and the filmmaking process and really dig into the mechanics at work. Its not just "I like the characters" its delving into how the setup and payoff of the story help provide characterization and depth. Read some of FilmCritHulk's work sometime.

Also the vast majority of critics these days are very involved either in their comment sections or in social media. Often their review is only the starting point for an on going discussion. Even in the old days, critics wrote rebuttles to one another. Whole communities of critics have existed. The French New Wave grew out of a community of critics and film scholars who finally just decided to make the films they wished they could see.

 

[redhawk23]

Dude, not at all. I'm sorry you thought I was mocking but it is genuine.

You are right to say "don't listen to critics listen to me". Like I said above you opinion is of more value some so-called "professional" because you have no motive or baggage going into a film. Like myself, you are there just to be entertained. I might or might not agree with you after I watch it myself but that is beside the point .

What motive do you think critics somehow inherently bring to a film?

Everyone brings some amount of predisposition to any work. Someone whos read a lot of fantasy stories might be either thrilled to see certain things brought to life in a film or bored because certain tropes may be tired out for them. Meanwhile a non-fantasy fan may be perplexed by things they aren't familiar with or blown away by things they've never seen before.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

You agree with the reviews that go along with what you think, and disagree with those that don't, it's simple enough.

Like redhawk said, it'll either be your thing or it won't, and that's totally fine. What I know is that I see the latest footage, the PAX trailers, the amount of heart & soul poured into it by everyone involved, Duncan's passion, and I'm just excited, I think it looks awesome.

I'm not expecting a great movie nor have I ever expected such a thing, I'm expecting a good film, an excellent Warcraft adaptation that doesn't try to be anything else and is earnest in its intentions. That's all I want, it's obvious that some critics just cannot (and that has nothing do with the quality of the film) see a movie like Warcraft in the same way that they'd see more serious or "legitimate" films, if that makes any sense.

I just find it great, this variety, that you can love classic films, indie films, like you can love goofy comedies, or blockbusters, or superhero films. Duncan Jones says the film is a good old fashioned romp, and I believe him.

 

[Iceman]

I'm not happy about the mixed reception. Hopefully if it's not horrible it still manages to be a decent hit, because we really need a successful fantasy flick that proves the genre's potential and paves the way for more of them in the future. Well, at least I need it, lol.

Same here. I'm grateful for LotR and Game of Thrones but there seems like a big gap after that to the next level. I'd love to get at least one big fantasy film a year and the early ones have to be good to establish it as a viable medium (outside of just adapting all-time classic stories).

 

[psylockolussus]

Eh. I thought it was really bad. The pacing is really off, like just how they cut to the next scene felt so sloppy. and I just slept after 1 hour and 20 minutes but I tried to kept myself awake but I hard time paying attention to it and people were leaving the theater before it ended! I didn't like it at all. The story was a bit over the place yet it the premise was just so simple and the visual effects looked pretty bad... like the blue force-fields, the thunder strikes. There's nothing really special to it.

I'll give this a 4 out of 10.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You agree with the reviews that go along with what you think, and disagree with those that don't, it's simple enough.

Like redhawk said, it'll either be your thing or it won't, and that's totally fine. What I know is that I see the latest footage, the PAX trailers, the amount of heart & soul poured into it by everyone involved, Duncan's passion, and I'm just excited, I think it looks awesome.

I'm not expecting a great movie nor have I ever expected such a thing, I'm expecting a good film, an excellent Warcraft adaptation that doesn't try to be anything else and is earnest in its intentions. That's all I want, it's obvious that some critics just cannot (and that has nothing do with the quality of the film) see a movie like Warcraft in the same way that they'd see more serious or "legitimate" films, if that makes any sense.

I just find it great, this variety, that you can love classic films, indie films, like you can love goofy comedies, or blockbusters, or superhero films. Duncan Jones says the film is a good old fashioned romp, and I believe him.

Do I sometimes disagree with critics on films? Yeah. There are other occasions where I really enjoy a movie that is rather mediocre or bad for one reason or another. Nostalgia, my fanboy tendencies, an actor or actress I am a fan of. But no matter these things, I never undercut the critics. If all that matters for you is your own opinion, negative or positive reviews shouldn't bother you.

If you are excited for Warcraft, if you really believe critics "know nothing", then I do not understand the need to discredit critics. All that shows is you do care.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Again you were the one harranguing people to "form their own opinions" and then you point out someone's opinion you trust when you yourself haven't seen the film. Many people have critics whose perspectives they trust just the same.

The pattern here is you latched on to someone whose opinion confirmed your own expectations.

The difference between most casual posters posting a review and a really good critic posting a review is that both can say that they like a movie but a great writer can articulate why. They can harness a knowledge of writing and the filmmaking process and really dig into the mechanics at work. Its not just "I like the characters" its delving into how the setup and payoff of the story help provide characterization and depth. Read some of FilmCritHulk's work sometime.

Also the vast majority of critics these days are very involved either in their comment sections or in social media. Often their review is only the starting point for an on going discussion. Even in the old days, critics wrote rebuttles to one another. Whole communities of critics have existed. The French New Wave grew out of a community of critics and film scholars who finally just decided to make the films they wished they could see.

What motive do you think critics somehow inherently bring to a film?

Everyone brings some amount of predisposition to any work. Someone whos read a lot of fantasy stories might be either thrilled to see certain things brought to life in a film or bored because certain tropes may be tired out for them. Meanwhile a non-fantasy fan may be perplexed by things they aren't familiar with or blown away by things they've never seen before.

Well put. It is amazing how a right to an opinion only extends so far for certain people.

 

[Abudefduf]

Same here. I'm grateful for LotR and Game of Thrones but there seems like a big gap after that to the next level. I'd love to get at least one big fantasy film a year and the early ones have to be good to establish it as a viable medium (outside of just adapting all-time classic stories).

Yep. There have been a few attempts at finally exploiting the genre after the LotR craze, but now it seems like we're back again to where we were in the 90s. A few crappy movies from time to time and that's it.

Sci-fi on the other hand, is yuger than ever. I wish the fantasy genre would get the same love from the big studios, but eh, c'est la vie I guess.

 

[Iceman]

Yep. There have been a few attempts at finally exploiting the genre after the LotR craze, but now it seems like we're back again to where we were in the 90s. A few crappy movies from time to time and that's it.

Sci-fi on the other hand, is yuger than ever. I wish the fantasy genre would get the same love from the big studios, but eh, c'est la vie I guess.

Well comic book movies were in a bad place too a while back so I'll always hold out some hope, even if I have to wait a few decades. It' s shame as LotR & GoT don't seem to have had much of an effect outside of themselves, not driving demand or trust in other fantasy projects. We really need a fantasy film to be wildly successful that is original and not based on a well known text before I think that might start happening.

 

[BlackFox]

Seeing this Monday so should be interesting to see what they have done with this. I know next to nothing about Warcraft/WOW so I am coming at this very much from a general audience stance, the people I am seeing it with though are avid WOW fans so will be good to compare their thoughts with mine at the same time.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Is this movie already coming out next week, or are these critic/fan screenings?

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

So the marketing on this movie makes it look bad and reviews released say it's bad, and fans are saying to ignore the critics.. I guess I should definitely save my money on this one

 

[BlackFox]

Is this movie already coming out next week, or are these critic/fan screenings?

I guess its an advanced preview showing Monday as its not technically out until next Friday in the UK.

 

[TheVileOne]

I could be wrong, but here is what I think the problem is in turning Warcraft into a movie. Here is my problem with the whole premise of a Warcraft movie. The games aren't about the main characters really. In Warcraft, you are taking control of races or you are taking the role of a character you create specifically for the world of the game. It's not a typically heavily narrative focused game like Uncharted or The Witcher.

Then again, I'm not sure you can convert Uncharted into a movie either because it takes away all the agency the player gets while playing the game and that's why it works so much.

I don't think people are going to get invested in the Assassin's Creed movie either because it's not going to have that emotional connection players get from "feeling" like an assassin.

 

[Doctor Jones]

So what's the buzz on this? As bad as the marketing is, I'm hoping this movie is good. For once I want a good video game movie. From what I see here it seems to be more on the mixed to negative side?