EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

[ChukNoris]

How would they portray Wakanda, though?

It's kinda unbelievable to have an unknown tribe/nation in Africa....

Maybe have Wakanda as an island?

 

[roach]

My bad, I let my other argument bleed into yours, roach. Regardless, it sounds like people outside know about the country... that makes sense. When earlier you said no one knows anything about it, but it's got all this prosperity from interacting with people, it's like... hmmm...

Unless the lawyer plays into the story, it may not be a good idea to include.

Yes people would know about Wakanda but thats about it....much like the country of Tanzania. We know it's a country in Africa but without looking it up on the internet what could you tell me about it. Now imagine if that country purposefully hid info about it.

 

[InternetPeople]

Yes people would know about Wakanda but thats about it....much like the country of Tanzania. We know it's a country in Africa but without looking it up on the internet what could you tell me about it. Now imagine if that country purposefully hid info about it.

That's easier said than done. That's like asking people to not look behind the curtain. At least with Atlantis or Asgard we can say it's unreachable. Wakanda is right there...on a map. You can just Google Earth it or whatever. I think you're asking a lot from the audience to make this place exist.

 

[chamber-music]

Basically Wakanda would be like North Korea a closed off state that those outside don't really know exactly what goes on.

 

[InternetPeople]

That has really worked out well for North Korea, eh?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

That has really worked out well for North Korea, eh?

Wakanda doesn't have 24 million people who live off of food rations.

 

[chamber-music]

Wakanda isn't run by a crazy dictatorship

 

[InternetPeople]

If those were the only problems then South Korea would be Wakanda. You guys want to make a fictional country and shove it into the real world, but there is nothing to compare it to because it is impossible. You're completely ignoring why countries fail and instead making those failures into unequaled successes. What you want has never happened and never will, especially in an ever increasingly connected world. Nothing remotely compares to your dream Wakanda.

Even the Japan of Africa is a stretch. Japan wasn't so technologically superior in WW2 that it didn't get bombed in submission by a technologically and economically superior country called the US. Japan has only became modernized after they changed from their traditional government and received massive investment from US capitalism.

There is a disconnect happening between what works in a fully fictional world and meshing that world within our own. This uncompromising stance to create a hidden world on a modern Earth won't work.

And to touch on something further up the thread, if the people of Wakanda went to schools around the world for their education, they would only be taught to the same degree as everyone else. If Wakanda is supposed to be superior, then they must be superior on their own, otherwise Wakanda is no more advanced than anyone else.

 

[RockSP]

Regardless of what some people in this thread have said, the MCU is not the real world. They can make Wakanda happen if they want to. Would there be changes from the comics? Of course, all comic book movies have made changes from the source material.

 

[InternetPeople]

But it is. The MCU uses WW2, New York and other real places. They have made it a point throughout the comics to use real places and insert their characters in our world.

No one is saying Wakanda won't exist in some form, what we are saying is that Wakanda needs to be semi-believable in a modern world otherwise the place looks like fantasy land on Earth. Is Asgard believable on Earth? No, why should Wakanda be? Because that's what the comics say? The comics say all sorts of things and the films don't stick to that material perfectly anyway.

We are trying to fix huge holes in Wakanda's history so that we can make a compelling story for Black Panther within that world. BP is informed by his homeland, and if that isn't remotely believable it takes away from the character and no one wants that.

 

[RockSP]

I wrote this in another thread but this is a little plot of what I thought for a Black Panther film

Black Panther - Set in a mix of Wakanda and New York. Origins of Black Panther are explored in depth. Explains Wakanda and it's lore. BP faces Ape-Man. In the mix BP goes to New York and breaks into Tony Stark's lab and plants a virus in his system. He then makes himself known so Iron Man can come after him in Wakanda. There they fight and BP activates the virus rendering Tony's suit useless. Having defeated Iron Man he offers BP a shot on the team after realizing BP is not a villain. Leads in to Avengers 3.

What do you guys think?

I don't think a BP film should co-star Iron Man. He needs to be established on his own (not counting possible cameos).

 

[E-Man]

But it is. The MCU uses WW2, New York and other real places. They have made it a point throughout the comics to use real places and insert their characters in our world.

No one is saying Wakanda won't exist in some form, what we are saying is that Wakanda needs to be semi-believable in a modern world otherwise the place looks like fantasy land on Earth. Is Asgard believable on Earth? No, why should Wakanda be? Because that's what the comics say? The comics say all sorts of things and the films don't stick to that material perfectly anyway.

We are trying to fix huge holes in Wakanda's history so that we can make a compelling story for Black Panther within that world. BP is informed by his homeland, and if that isn't remotely believable it takes away from the character and no one wants that.

The MCU featured a World War 2 that had a Nazi with a red skull for a head, technology far more superior than anything at the time on both Stark and Hydra's end, and vibranium being pretty much indestructible. In modern day they have a giant hellicarrier that's basically a submarine and flying ship, and no one knew a damn thing about it. Wakanda isn't that far fetched when you consider that the SHIELD has a giant floating ship that no one has seen, even Tony Stark who had the most advanced tech of them all. In this world it's not so far fetched that a place like Wakanda could exist without much contact from outsiders.

 

[roach]

The MCU featured a World War 2 that had a Nazi with a red skull for a head, technology far more superior than anything at the time on both Stark and Hydra's end, and vibranium being pretty much indestructible. In modern day they have a giant hellicarrier that's basically a submarine and flying ship, and no one knew a damn thing about it. Wakanda isn't that far fetched when you consider that the SHIELD has a giant floating ship that no one has seen, even Tony Stark who had the most advanced tech of them all. In this world it's not so far fetched that a place like Wakanda could exist without much contact from outsiders.

This.....no one is gonna walk out of the theater because its too unbelievable...if so they'll have hard time with Gotg.

 

[InternetPeople]

It's the super advanced world with no contact from outsiders that is hard to believe. Wakanda cannot achieve the level of sophistication that some folks are arguing for, by themselves. The modern world has achieved what it has through trade and an exchange of ideas. To say a country who has stayed apart from the rest of the world achieved even greater achievement faster than the rest of the collective world is a bridge too far. Couple that with being super small, landlocked with few human and natural resources, and they're lucky they can make a toaster, let alone giant laser cannons.

The United States, Europe, Japan and other advanced nations would not be where they are without each other. An advanced Wakanda cannot exist without the rest of the world as Wakanda does not possess the resources it would need to be advanced by itself.

I can believe Asgard in space, I cannot believe Asgard on Earth and that's the problem. You can make fantastic, unbelievable worlds in space because it doesn't play by the same rules as Earth does. An unbelievable Wakanda only works to undermine Black Panther, not make him better. I won't walk out of Black Panther, I just won't see it.

 

[roach]

It's the super advanced world with no contact from outsiders that is hard to believe. Wakanda cannot achieve the level of sophistication that some folks are arguing for, by themselves. The modern world has achieved what it has through trade and an exchange of ideas. To say a country who has stayed apart from the rest of the world achieved even greater achievement faster than the rest of the collective world is a bridge too far. Couple that with being super small, landlocked with few human and natural resources, and they're lucky they can make a toaster, let alone giant laser cannons.

The United States, Europe, Japan and other advanced nations would not be where they are without each other. An advanced Wakanda cannot exist without the rest of the world as Wakanda does not possess the resources it would need to be advanced by itself.

I can believe Asgard in space, I cannot believe Asgard on Earth and that's the problem. You can make fantastic, unbelievable worlds in space because it doesn't play by the same rules as Earth does. An unbelievable Wakanda only works to undermine Black Panther, not make him better. I won't walk out of Black Panther, I just won't see it.

But it's not our universe...it's the MCU....they had lazer beams and arc cannons in WW2, a man in a cave can build a sophisticated suit or armor....he has an AI house...now imagine Tony Stark's ingenuity expressed on a country level.

 

[InternetPeople]

But it's not our universe...it's the MCU....they had lazer beams and arc cannons in WW2, a man in a cave can build a sophisticated suit or armor....he has an AI house...now imagine Tony Stark's ingenuity expressed on a country level.

Then they would take over the world, but I bet you have a really good way of explaining that away too.

What you guys want is for Wakanda to be an outlier to an extreme degree. Let's bring it back down a bit so that it actually works.

And let's stop comparing Wakanda to GoTG. If Wakanda was populated by talking raccoons you wouldn't believe it either.

 

[E-Man]

Then they would take over the world, but I bet you have a really good way of explaining that away too.

What you guys want is for Wakanda to be an outlier to an extreme degree. Let's bring it back down a bit so that it actually works.

And let's stop comparing Wakanda to GoTG. If Wakanda was populated by talking raccoons you wouldn't believe it either.

You're thinking way too hard about this. They don't want to take over the world because they're comfortable where they are, and they're only 6 million strong with their own problems to deal with. Why doesn't Asgard take over Midgard? They certainly have the power to do so, but they don't because they're fine where they are as long as Earth doesn't come gunning for them like in Siege. Not to mention that their biggest resource, vibranium, is only in one spot that they want to protect.

But that's once again thinking too hard about this because it's fake. They had a giant floating fortress that nobody but SHIELD and maybe a few governments knew about. Just look at this big ass thing:

You mean to tell me that no one knew this existed, not even a guy like Stark that has eyes everywhere? Of course no one questioned this because it is a cool ass part of the comics, and because everyone knows that there are things in the Marvel U that are fictional. Wakanda wouldn't be so hard to accept when you consider that there is a giant fortress somehow maintaining perfect balance over the air. Why isn't this thing falling out of the sky when it's nearly impossible to make it in real life? Oh yeah, that's because it's fake. Wakanda is fake too, so it wouldn't look silly at all unless you really wanna play the realism game all of a sudden after seeing so much fake **** in Marvel movies.

 

[roach]

They are isolationists...they want to be left alone. Why would they want to take over the world?

But why should Wakanda be toned down....nothing else in the MCU has?

 

[blalex620]

So how do you know Tony fans (much of the audience) won't be like "T'Challa's a ______ for that. Tony didn't do anything to him."

The thing about Panther is he's always been the guy to test the other characters. Add in the aspect that Black Panther is testing Tony to see if he's worthy of helping him and if so then he's also going to help him. In the end it would benefit him and Tony if Panther dies this.

I don't think a BP film should co-star Iron Man. He needs to be established on his own (not counting possible cameos).

It wouldn't be co-staring Iron Man. If they wanted they could make the "Iron Man arc" the last 20-30 minute third act of the film. It's a way to introduce BP to the rest of the MCU in a unconventional but perfect character fitting way.

 

[blalex620]

They are isolationists...they want to be left alone. Why would they want to take over the world?

But why should Wakanda be toned down....nothing else in the MCU has?

it shouldn't. Explained correctly people would accept Wakanda as another crazy place in the MCU. If people can accept everything else in the MCU so far why do people think they can't accept this

 

[roach]

The thing about Panther is he's always been the guy to test the other characters. Add in the aspect that Black Panther is testing Tony to see if he's worthy of helping him and if so then he's also going to help him. In the end it would benefit him and Tony if Panther dies this.



It wouldn't be co-staring Iron Man. If they wanted they could make the "Iron Man arc" the last 20-30 minute third act of the film. It's a way to introduce BP to the rest of the MCU in a unconventional but perfect character fitting way.

I would keep IM out of it. BP needs to flex on his own...if there has to be a cameo maybe Fury or Cap

 

[InternetPeople]

Don't be surprised when Wakanda does not live up to your lofty expectations.

 

[roach]

They are not expectations...I prefaced my first post with: how I would do it as a film maker. I know they won't follow my ideas because they don't know them...but as of right now they don't have an idea of how to do it.

 

[blalex620]

I would keep IM out of it. BP needs to flex on his own...if there has to be a cameo maybe Fury or Cap

I say use IM because so far IM is kind of like the center to the MCU. As of now most people see him and the smartest guy in the MCU. Having Panther come and show him up like he does in the comics is a perfect way to introduce his intellect to the audience and it'd just be cool as heck to see Panther defeat Iron Man

 

[roach]

I say use IM because so far IM is kind of like the center to the MCU. As of now most people see him and the smartest guy in the MCU. Having Panther come and show him up like he does in the comics is a perfect way to introduce his intellect to the audience and it'd just be cool as heck to see Panther defeat Iron Man

And that would be a cool thing to happen in an Avengers movie...let the solo BP action happen in his movie