Justice League: News and Speculation - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 62

[idiot09]

Don't care. However, I don't think it's as important as Superman's hair.

Great to see you took our often a bit too harsh jabs sportingly. I would like to clarify none of us meant to insult you, it was just all in some good fun

To be fair, it is quite hilarious to read how up in arms some people get about BvS.

The word you are looking for is "triggered".

 

[misslane38]

Going by Geoff John's tweet, I think Superman will be getting his own beloved CW TV show. Since most of his fans have already made up their minds about Cav-El, they can simply stop bothering about his arc in DCEU already.

You mean the tweet about some announcement about another TV show? I don't think that was referring to Superman. If I recall, some speculated that it was about a possible Watchmen series or the new Black Lightning show that will be on Fox. The last thing I read about a Superman show didn't sound promising. According to Entertainment Weekly a few weeks ago,

CW President Mark Pedowitz tells EW there are currently no plans for a Superman spinoff. “Tyler did a great job,” he said following his panel at the Television Critics Association’s press tour on Sunday. “There’s no plan to do a series. There are no plans at the moment for him to return [to Supergirl]. If they wish to have him return, we’d love to have him.”

I don't think Magog had a symbol in Kingdom Come.

My only concern about Magog is I really don't want the DCEU to tell the story of Kingdom Come. I'm especially anxious and against any story that would involve killing Lois Lane. It's also a story that the author, Mark Waid, admits doesn't get Wonder Woman right. Remove the fridging of Lois, write Wonder Woman better, don't pair up Superman and Wonder Woman, and it might be okay. Still, though, it's an incredibly violent and bleak story featuring older versions of the characters. Perhaps there is a way to rework it, and maybe that would be fine. As it is, though, the possibility of Magog makes me feel uneasy. I'd rather not. If it's just an Easter Egg, though, that could be okay. That being said, doesn't Steppenwolf have a horned look to him? Could the image not be a reference to him rather than Magog?

 

[misslane38]

Your point is invalid because Superman is supposed to inspire people and give them hope. Moreover, movies are a fantasy. People these days buy tickets to have fun and laugh. Especially when it comes to these stupid comic book movies. Leave the serious tone to TV shows.

Superman is supposed to inspire people, but it's not supposed to be easy.

You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They'll race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time...they will join you in the sun, Kal. In time...you will help them accomplish wonders.

A world that needs Superman to give them hope is a world that would initially struggle with accepting him and embracing his role in their world. Reeve's Superman, for instance, doesn't give his world hope because when he debuts that hope is already there ready to greet him. In order to show how Superman gives humanity hope, his story first must explore a state of despair or cynicism. Humanity and Superman, therefore, must struggle and strive together.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

You mean the tweet about some announcement about another TV show? I don't think that was referring to Superman. If I recall, some speculated that it was about a possible Watchmen series or the new Black Lightning show that will be on Fox. The last thing I read about a Superman show didn't sound promising. According to Entertainment Weekly a few weeks ago,

CW President Mark Pedowitz tells EW there are currently no plans for a Superman spinoff. “Tyler did a great job,” he said following his panel at the Television Critics Association’s press tour on Sunday. “There’s no plan to do a series. There are no plans at the moment for him to return [to Supergirl]. If they wish to have him return, we’d love to have him.”



My only concern about Magog is I really don't want the DCEU to tell the story of Kingdom Come. I'm especially anxious and against any story that would involve killing Lois Lane. It's also a story that the author, Mark Waid, admits doesn't get Wonder Woman right. Remove the fridging of Lois, write Wonder Woman better, don't pair up Superman and Wonder Woman, and it might be okay. Still, though, it's an incredibly violent and bleak story featuring older versions of the characters. Perhaps there is a way to rework it, and maybe that would be fine. As it is, though, the possibility of Magog makes me feel uneasy. I'd rather not. If it's just an Easter Egg, though, that could be okay. That being said, doesn't Steppenwolf have a horned look to him? Could the image not be a reference to him rather than Magog?

KC's status quo is vital to the bleak tone of the story.

If Lois were alive and Supes wasn't mournful he wouldn't be living like a reclusive farmer at the beginning of the story. That sets the tone of that whole story.

And I agree with your criticisms but I also understand that a "happy ending" is only where the storyteller decided to stop.

Superman is destined to outlive Lois. It's poignant and sad, but it's true. Pairing him with Wonder Woman makes sense in the long run. It's no coincidence that in almost every alternate version of Superman he has a relationship with Diana. It's even the reason why she calls him Kal one-on-one in canon stories.

 

[Arachnerd]

The only thing I watch from Screen Junkies is Honest Trailers.

Don't really give a crap about anything else they make.

 

[Legendver2]

Superman is supposed to inspire people, but it's not supposed to be easy.

You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They'll race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time...they will join you in the sun, Kal. In time...you will help them accomplish wonders.

A world that needs Superman to give them hope is a world that would initially struggle with accepting him and embracing his role in their world. Reeve's Superman, for instance, doesn't give his world hope because when he debuts that hope is already there ready to greet him. In order to show how Superman gives humanity hope, his story first must explore a state of despair or cynicism. Humanity and Superman, therefore, must struggle and strive together.

Misslane, you shouldn't feel compelled to respond to a post labeling these as stupid comic book movies. Your input is too deep to be appreciated here .

 

[misslane38]

Superman is destined to outlive Lois. It's poignant and sad, but it's true. Pairing him with Wonder Woman makes sense in the long run. It's no coincidence that in almost every alternate version of Superman he has a relationship with Diana. It's even the reason why she calls him Kal one-on-one in canon stories.

It's not true. First of all, if Superman was destined to outlive Lois, why is she currently outliving him in the DCCU? Sure, he'll be alive again, but that just goes to show that nothing is for certain. There have also been several incarnations of the Superman myth that allow for a happy ending for Lois and Clark. Lois and Clark age together in Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman because Superman gives up his immortality to save Jimmy Olsen's life. Grant Morrison wrote an end to the Post-Crisis era Superman and Lois in "DC One Million" in which the characters become gold and silver immortals. Alan Moore's conclusion to the Pre-Crisis comic book age, "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" depowered Superman after he killed Mxyzptlk, and he and Lois lived happily ever after as Lois and Jordan Elliot.

Pairing Superman with Wonder Woman, therefore, is not some sort of foregone conclusion. Superman has a relationship with Wonder Woman in elseworlds because elseworlds are typically used to explore dystopian and deconstructed ideas of these characters, which means Superman and Wonder Woman together is a sign that something about the world in which these heroes live has fundamentally soured. So any hints of those sorts of stories bleeding through into the DCCU does not sit well with me.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Fair enough. I do like SPO and WEHTTMOT?

 

[idiot09]

Yeah well whether you like Diana with Clark is a personal preference. I dont. And for the record I dont like Diana with Bruce either.

Superbat 4 lyf.

On a serious note, even if there is a dystopian future where Lois Lane dies, I would like Clark to be alone in respect for her memory. Yeah it kind of sucks, but I would prefer that to him being with Diana. I dont want any of the trinity members to be romantically involved with one another.

 

[idiot09]

PS : Two informative posters having a civil discussion without it turning into a huge comment war...what kind of sorcery is this?

 

[Arachnerd]

PS : Two informative posters having a civil discussion without it turning into a huge comment war...what kind of sorcery is this?

Shh. Give it a minute.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Yeah well whether you like Diana with Clark is a personal preference. I dont. And for the record I dont like Diana with Bruce either.

Superbat 4 lyf.

On a serious note, even if there is a dystopian future where Lois Lane dies, I would like Clark to be alone in respect for her memory. Yeah it kind of sucks, but I would prefer that to him being with Diana. I dont want any of the trinity members to be romantically involved with one another.

Yeah, I agree with that last part. For film.

But I don't see a KC adaptation that doesn't involve Lois' death. It's like trying to adapt Injustice without Lois dying. It just doesn't work.

 

[idiot09]

Shh. Give it a minute.

We have a good streak going on in the JL forum for the last few days. Civil discourse, good informative posters, its going good. Long may it last.

 

[steve4991]

If any of ya'll want a definition of "hate" and "bias", check out Chive's worst movie list that just dropped. BvS across the board in almost every category and they gave Ben worst actor for Batman lol

 

[idiot09]

Yeah, I agree with that last part. For film.

But I don't see a KC adaptation that doesn't involve Lois' death. It's like trying to adapt Injustice without Lois dying. It just doesn't work.

True. Ive always said I would love a KC adaptation done by Zack. But I want it to be an elseworld thing not connected with the main slate maybe? Imagine Ross's visuals through Zacks imagery. Although I have a soft spot for clois, and there are a few aspects of KC I dont like, I dont mind it as an elseworld tale.

 

[misslane38]

I do apologize if I come off too strongly when it comes to Lois Lane. She's my favorite character, and that can be a struggle sometimes. So many stories like Kingdom Come and Injustice: Gods Among Us treat her like some object by killing her off for manpain and to clear the way for a Superman and Wonder Woman romance. It hurts to see your favorite character brutally murdered like that, like a plot device, and so when there's a possibility of Injustice or Kingdom Come plot points in the DCEU, which some predict could be true because of the Knightmare sequence, or this hint about Magog, it upsets me.

I've also been able to appreciate the struggle and the darkness of this universe so far, in part, because I saw it as part of the journey to get to something brighter. For Superman and Lois to endure all that they have, and for the world to have endured all of that, only to suffer the fate of those tragic stories wouldn't sit well with me at all. That's why I can accept adapting aspects of those stories to a point, but only if there are twists/subversions and changes to it. I'd much prefer new stories be told or other stories adapted.

 

[Arachnerd]

We have a good streak going on in the JL forum for the last few days. Civil discourse, good informative posters, its going good. Long may it last.

There's a storm coming, Mr. Wayne IO9.

You and your friends better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you're all gonna wonder how you ever thought you could defend the DCEU, and yet disregard Marvel Studios for the rest of them.

 

[idiot09]

If any of ya'll want a definition of "hate" and "bias", check out Chive's worst movie list that just dropped. BvS across the board in almost every category and they gave Ben worst actor for Batman lol

LOL no thanks.

 

[steve4991]

Just awful. At this point JL could be critically acclaimed and certain outlets will still trash it. It's unstoppable at this point.

 

[idiot09]

I do apologize if I come off too strongly when it comes to Lois Lane. She's my favorite character, and that can be a struggle sometimes. So many stories like Kingdom Come and Injustice: Gods Among Us treat her like some object by killing her off for manpain and to clear the way for a Superman and Wonder Woman romance. It hurts to see your favorite character brutally murdered like that, like a plot device, and so when there's a possibility of Injustice plot points in the DCEU, which some predict could be true because of the Knightmare sequence, or this hint about Magog, it upsets me.

I've also been able to appreciate the struggle and the darkness of this universe so far, in part, because I saw it as part of the journey to get to something brighter. For Superman and Lois to endure all that they have, and for the world to have endured all of that, only to suffer the fate of those tragic stories wouldn't sit well with me at all. That's why I can accept adapting aspects of those stories to a point, but only if there are twists/subversions and changes to it. I'd much prefer new stories be told or other stories adapted.

I agree. I love Lois as well, and its understandable and you dont need to apologise. Sometimes she has been used as a plot device and yes that sucks.

However I do think the Knightmare Sequence was a misdirect and something the JL will work towards averting, that is work towards making sure that future never happens kind of like DOFP.

I agree with the coming from darkness to the light part. I dont want DCEU Lois to be harmed in anyway, Clark and Lois dont deserve that so early. They deserve to get married and be happy for now, after all they have been through, and they will be imo.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I do apologize if I come off too strongly when it comes to Lois Lane. She's my favorite character, and that can be a struggle sometimes. So many stories like Kingdom Come and Injustice: Gods Among Us treat her like some object by killing her off for manpain and to clear the way for a Superman and Wonder Woman romance. It hurts to see your favorite character brutally murdered like that, like a plot device, and so when there's a possibility of Injustice or Kingdom Come plot points in the DCEU, which some predict could be true because of the Knightmare sequence, or this hint about Magog, it upsets me.

I've also been able to appreciate the struggle and the darkness of this universe so far, in part, because I saw it as part of the journey to get to something brighter. For Superman and Lois to endure all that they have, and for the world to have endured all of that, only to suffer the fate of those tragic stories wouldn't sit well with me at all. That's why I can accept adapting aspects of those stories to a point, but only if there are twists/subversions and changes to it. I'd much prefer new stories be told or other stories adapted.

I totally get where you're coming from. And Lois & Clark are great. But I love KC for what it is. It's my favorite story, and probably the second or third best graphic novel of all time IMO.

 

[idiot09]

Just awful. At this point JL could be critically acclaimed and certain outlets will still trash it. It's unstoppable at this point.

Haters gonna hate. Best to ignore and not give them da clicks they want.

 

[misslane38]

Yeah, I agree with that last part. For film.

But I don't see a KC adaptation that doesn't involve Lois' death. It's like trying to adapt Injustice without Lois dying. It just doesn't work.

In Kingdom Come, Superman doesn't abandon humanity because Lois dies. He does it only after a jury acquits Magog for killing Joker for his crime of attacking the Daily Planet -- the attack that killed Lois. Superman quits because he doesn't feel like society upholds his values anymore. Lois dying probably contributed to his pessimism, but it wasn't the primary reason for Superman's resignation. If Kingdom Come were to be adapted, they don't need to kill Lois, and they shouldn't because a Superman who would give up on people for such a reason isn't one I can say I respect all that much. They could find something else to really shake Superman, something better than what Waid came up with (I really hate Kingdom Come and Injustice. Can you tell?). However, since Batman v Superman already went down this road to some extent, I don't think that would be a desirable story to tell.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

In Kingdom Come, Superman doesn't abandon humanity because Lois dies. He does it only after a jury acquits Magog for killing Joker for his crime of attacking the Daily Planet -- the attack that killed Lois. Superman quits because he doesn't feel like society upholds his values anymore. Lois dying probably contributed to his pessimism, but it wasn't the primary reason for Superman's resignation. If Kingdom Come were to be adapted, they don't need to kill Lois, and they shouldn't because a Superman who would give up on people for such a reason isn't one I can say I respect all that much. They could find something else to really shake Superman, something better than what Waid came up with (I really hate Kingdom Come and Injustice. Can you tell?). However, since Batman v Superman already went down this road to some extent, I don't think that would be a desirable story to tell.

Yeah, I can tell. And I completely get the fridging argument. Knowing Lois as well as you do you really think Superman would hang up his cape if she were still alive? Do you think she would let him?

Kingdom Come is essentially Superman's TDKR. If modern day Lois were around for the Magog ruling she wouldn't have been phased by it (really pissed off maybe) and that in turn would keeps Supes' optimistic.

Superman doesn't retire and eventually the status quo reverts back to where it was.

 

[BH/HHH]

Kingdom Come is the hes test graphic novel bar none for me. If they ever adaptation that (loosely or not) I would be ecstatic. It's a brilliant Superman story and a brilliant story in general.