The Dark Knight Rises Nolan...add Robin!!!!!! - Part 1

[serendipity]

I know someone already posted a link to this news but . . .

http://screenrant.com/robin-the-dark-knight-rises-schrad-99995/

There it is again for conveinence.

That is VERY interesting.

 

[Knight Rise]

Did anyone ever think of the location as the new Batcave?

 

[serendipity]

I thought the Turda salt mines looked an awful lot like a Batcave.

 

[Colonel Kurtz]

I know someone already posted a link to this news but . . .

http://screenrant.com/robin-the-dark-knight-rises-schrad-99995/

There it is again for conveinence.

That is VERY interesting.

I don't get why people have it in their heads that Nightwing can be in the movie. We haven't even introduced Dick Grayson as Robin yet! How the hell do you skip over something like that? It's similar to people thinking Harry Osborn became the Hobgoblin. I think it stems from over-exposure to cartoons in the 90's.

 

[Knight Rise]

I don't get why people have it in their heads that Nightwing can be in the movie. We haven't even introduced Dick Grayson as Robin yet! How the hell do you skip over something like that? It's similar to people thinking Harry Osborn became the Hobgoblin. I think it stems from over-exposure to cartoons in the 90's.

Exactly, but you'll have someone here in a few minutes go on about how things change for a film, no matter how stupid or unlikely they sound. Why is it so hard to believe someone who flat out told you that he wasn't going to be a part of it?

 

[Mr. Earle]

I don't think he'll add Robin. But I could see him adding Nightwing or even Red Hood.

But you have to have them as Robins first otherwise they re just random vigilantes.

i stand corrected. i will rephrase. Nolan's movies and burtons movies were exceptional without robin and worked perfectly to achieve the character's great universe without robin. they werent perfect, as nothing is, but robin wasnt missed AT ALL in any of the great upscale batman movies. Batman forever and Batman and Robin were trash due to writing and also the concept of batman with a green tights, weird outfit child hovering around him is ust not acceptable. yuk. no matter what they try, for film in a realistic approach. ANY superhero with a mask that covers only ur eye area is stupid as that doesnt conceil anything and how will robin talk and no one acknowledge its his voice?
also another dynamic people miss is to make it believable that bruce wayne can be pre occupied when batman is out and about is understandble and logically can fool people, but bruce wayne hangin about a kid here and there and then suddenly two superheroes with the same descriptionn, robin's hair all exposed and dna can be taken from that hair if cops sweep a scene etc just isnt plausible in a NOLAN movie.

see nolan covered these basic things with batman as batman is well conceiled. only his mouth and his eye parts are visible and we see what happened when paper trails led back to him in TDK. now imagine the **** up robin would bring in. too many vulnerable spots. mask can be easily removed. is as much of a disguise as superman's which was always stupid, and how would robin disguise his voice or make villains fear batman anymore or respect him when he adds another potential casualty for batman to wirry about and deal with? in a realistic world. what we got is all we need from nolans characters. batman just needs to have more exceptional fight choreography, more shadowy scenes, more ninjitsu, and less growling and more of a whisper like in BB and we got a perfect movie.

robin has too much to explain to a smarter audience of today. i swear he would leave hair somewhere for cops to trace

Should realism be that much of a concern when we re talking about Batman?

Im more into the updated NON robin angle burton used for film. in fact i love the show THE BATMAN for excluding robin too.

I got bad news for you. Robin and Batgirl were introduced in later seasons.

i just dont feel we get enough time to develop the dynamics of batmans full potential with all these characters.

What characters? At some point all angles of being a vigilante are explored, all themes about justice, morality and so on are covered and this is where Robin comes in, giving batman a brother in arms, a successor, a son.

Robin's look is just too goofy and not plausible in todays modern world which nolan tackled by fixing the car into a new age of things, and being workable with the technology the new cops of today have. robin is just outdated.

Then Nolan can update him like the car.

Nolan's batman is about fear and redemption which u cant develop in one movie with a new character like robin and robin has never been scary lol. that mask is HORRIBLE. new age people, we need an update or set the movie in a time where skimpy masks worked

I dont think you know what redemption means and besides that your whole opinion on the character is based on the design of his mask. That's it, i'm not discussing this with you anymore unless you read some good comics.

 

[serendipity]

I don't get why people have it in their heads that Nightwing can be in the movie. We haven't even introduced Dick Grayson as Robin yet! How the hell do you skip over something like that? It's similar to people thinking Harry Osborn became the Hobgoblin. I think it stems from over-exposure to cartoons in the 90's.

Wouldn't put it past ourselves...but hey, I grew up watching that great stuff. My first exposure to Batman, admittedly.

 

[GothamAlleys]

I would be very dissapointed if Robin was in it. Well first of all, let me express my feelings on the character. I got into Batman in '88. If one remembers or knows, there was no Robin by then and the Batman stories were one off detective stories, with lone Batman solving the cases and confronting the perpetrators at the end. I was aware of Robin and of course, Jason's costume was on display in the batcave all the time and there were many moments when Batman was looking at it, but my point is that the Batman I got to know and love was the very dark, lone character solving often supernatural and/or horrorish stories. The dark Burton movies followed the suit of the lone and dark Batman. When Tim Drake appeared, he was awesome and is still one of my favorite characters (loved the first Robin comic series), but he was staying in the cave workin on the computer and then even when he became Robin, there were plenty of lone Batman issues anyway and they werent such strong team that went together everywhere like the previous Robins

So MY Batman, the Batman I got to know, was a lone figure and thats the Batman that got me in and that Im a fan of. Having anyone besides him would completely change everything. He wouldnt have those monologues or deep lone thoughts, the entire character wouldve been presented in such a radically different ways. When he was alone, he was constantly thinking and wondering, you realy got into his head and you felt like its you and him. With Robin around , naturally its all different because he now has someone to talk to and someone on his side all the time

Another thing is that I cant imagine Robin fitting in a more realistic universe at all. We're talking about a kid here, I dont think Bale's Batman (or Keaton's either) would under any circumstances agree to work with a skilled kid and agreed to have him on his side fighting crime. And even the costume alone doesnt work either, you cant hide your identity with an eye mask like this

And yes, his birth resulted in making Batman a little less dark . . . I guess. They took away his gun for obvious reasons. But you look at Batman - he's still a very dark character. And the lot of people who slam Robin don't know that he's there in issue #1. And he does anchor Batman in a way. Whether you like him or not, Robin's been an integral part of the Batman mythos.

Thats not true. While its not solely Robin's fault (the appearance of Robin coincided with DC's decision to brighten up and make Batman a kid friendly character), when Robin appeared Batman got an incredible makeover and changed radically. He was no longer a killer who was portrayed as a mysterious dark menace, but a blue, constantly smiling detective who worked during the day too. I have all the early Detective Comics and the early Batman issues

 

[Mr. Earle]

All real Batman fans love Robin.

I want to make the argument that, if you accept the view that comics are an American mythology, then Batman-Catwoman-Robin is a coherent trinity like all those found in most ancient pantheons; man-woman-child.

Anyway, Robin can potentially be embarrassing, but the solution to that is not to explain him away. He is an underage vigilante, who owes his success to being taken under the wing of another mentally damaged orphan who perceives his pain. It's beautifully neat, in a way.

I dont know about the nolanverse but in a movie franchise closer in tone with the comics Robin would fit right in. In a world where half the population wears a mask and fights crime, monsters and gods, kids fighting crime isnt that outrageous.

There are many great Batman stories without Robin, some of the best in fact. I can still enjoy a story that has him in it, even if I´m not a fan of the character. When I was a kid, I hated Snarf with a passion, but still loved Thundercats.

Comparing Snarf to Robin.....

all of this over ROBIN, which is why you wont get him as JGL or Nightwing. you delivered all these things to something thats completely impossible for this actor.

Who said anything about JGL as Robin? Isnt he like 30 something anyway?

And in any case, even if he is Robin, couldnt he be Dickbats in the final scene of the movie where we see the future with some forced monologue from Gordon talking about how Batman will always be protecting Gotham?

I don't have to love you either.

It's amazing how incredibly nitpicky people can be when it comes to this particular character. The same audience that accepts the Joker as a villain capable of carrying out schemes with supernatural perfection won't accept Robin because his hair could leave DNA evidence? The same audience that's going to go see Green Lantern fly around the galaxy in a domino mask won't accept the same kind of mask on a regular teenage boy? If people could accept Harv walking around, talking, and showing no signs of pain while half of his face was gone, Robin certainly wouldn't be a problem.

Agreed. I guess Batman is supposed to be realistic. Oh wait...

Robin isn't in the film. I promise. The character is pure silliness, and I can't see how he'd hold the interest of anybody over the age of twelve, but that's just me.

Its obvious that you havent read any comic books.
At least you would have some arguements.

Personally, yeah, I think he'd be a perfect fit for the closing chapter of this trilogy.

Bruce's relationship with his father was such a huge part of Batman Begins. I can't think of anything that makes sense more than to mirror and revisit that.

I'd love to see that.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I would be very dissapointed if Robin was in it. Well first of all, let me express my feelings on the character. I got into Batman in '88. If one remembers or knows, there was no Robin by then and the Batman stories were one off detective stories, with lone Batman solving the cases and confronting the perpetrators at the end. I was aware of Robin and of course, Jason's costume was on display in the batcave all the time and there were many moments when Batman was looking at it, but my point is that the Batman I got to know and love was the very dark, lone character solving often supernatural and/or horrorish stories. The dark Burton movies followed the suit of the lone and dark Batman. When Tim Drake appeared, he was awesome and is still one of my favorite characters (loved the first Robin comic series), but he was staying in the cave workin on the computer and then even when he became Robin, there were plenty of lone Batman issues anyway and they werent such strong team that went together everywhere like the previous Robins

So MY Batman, the Batman I got to know, was a lone figure and thats the Batman that got me in and that Im a fan of. Having anyone besides him would completely change everything. He wouldnt have those monologues or deep lone thoughts, the entire character wouldve been presented in such a radically different ways. When he was alone, he was constantly thinking and wondering, you realy got into his head and you felt like its you and him. With Robin around , naturally its all different because he now has someone to talk to and someone on his side all the time

Another thing is that I cant imagine Robin fitting in a more realistic universe at all. We're talking about a kid here, I dont think Bale's Batman (or Keaton's either) would under any circumstances agree to work with a skilled kid and agreed to have him on his side fighting crime. And even the costume alone doesnt work either, you cant hide your identity with an eye mask like this



Thats not true. While its not solely Robin's fault (the appearance of Robin coincided with DC's decision to brighten up and make Batman a kid friendly character), when Robin appeared Batman got an incredible makeover and changed radically. He was no longer a killer who was portrayed as a mysterious dark menace, but a blue, constantly smiling detective who worked during the day too. I have all the early Detective Comics and the early Batman issues

Finally, a Robin hater who has some arguements and has read some comics. You sir are awesome!

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Yeah, I was surprised that so many people were holding Nolan to that interview he gave years ago where he said 'Robin is in a crib somewhere', during the events of BB. That was a few years ago, the guy might actually change his mind and have a good idea for his inclusion in the intervening time. It's not like he's going to panic and say 'Dear God Goyer! what about that 'crib' interview man?!! That interview was canon!! We're going to have to attack of the clones his ass and boba fett him up to a believable, realistic, sorry I mean, hyper-realistic age to be a vigilante!'
Really hope this is true.

 

[Drz]

Yeah, I was surprised that so many people were holding Nolan to that interview he gave years ago where he said 'Robin is in a crib somewhere', during the events of BB. That was a few years ago, the guy might actually change his mind and have a good idea for his inclusion in the intervening time. It's not like he's going to panic and say 'Dear God Goyer! what about that 'crib' interview man?!! That interview was canon!! We're going to have to attack of the clones his ass and boba fett him up to a believable, realistic, sorry I mean, hyper-realistic age to be a vigilante!'
Really hope this is true.

It's even worse when some people seem to use the Bale quote as an actual argument. Bale has a contract for 3 Batman movies, even if the script had Robin and lets say King Tut as the villain, he'd still would have to do the movie.

Robin fits in the Nolan universe as much as the water emitter that doesn't effect humans, a man whos face is half burned away yet shows no sign of pain and god knows how Bane will be portrayed in this franchise.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

god knows how Bane will be portrayed in this franchise.

I think Bane will pretty much be how he was in Knightfall, except he won't have one of those novelty beer can holder caps on. I imagine they will keep some kind of Venom/steroid thing going on with him, they'll probably have him popping pills of Venom, like Batman originally did when he went through that Jim Morrison phase.

and as for Robin, we already got a pretty good adaptation of the Flying Graysons origin in BF, so it will be interesting to see how they handle him here with a fresh origin.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I would be very dissapointed if Robin was in it. Well first of all, let me express my feelings on the character. I got into Batman in '88. If one remembers or knows, there was no Robin by then and the Batman stories were one off detective stories, with lone Batman solving the cases and confronting the perpetrators at the end. I was aware of Robin and of course, Jason's costume was on display in the batcave all the time and there were many moments when Batman was looking at it, but my point is that the Batman I got to know and love was the very dark, lone character solving often supernatural and/or horrorish stories. The dark Burton movies followed the suit of the lone and dark Batman. When Tim Drake appeared, he was awesome and is still one of my favorite characters (loved the first Robin comic series), but he was staying in the cave workin on the computer and then even when he became Robin, there were plenty of lone Batman issues anyway and they werent such strong team that went together everywhere like the previous Robins

So MY Batman, the Batman I got to know, was a lone figure and thats the Batman that got me in and that Im a fan of. Having anyone besides him would completely change everything. He wouldnt have those monologues or deep lone thoughts, the entire character wouldve been presented in such a radically different ways. When he was alone, he was constantly thinking and wondering, you realy got into his head and you felt like its you and him. With Robin around , naturally its all different because he now has someone to talk to and someone on his side all the time

Another thing is that I cant imagine Robin fitting in a more realistic universe at all. We're talking about a kid here, I dont think Bale's Batman (or Keaton's either) would under any circumstances agree to work with a skilled kid and agreed to have him on his side fighting crime. And even the costume alone doesnt work either, you cant hide your identity with an eye mask like this



Thats not true. While its not solely Robin's fault (the appearance of Robin coincided with DC's decision to brighten up and make Batman a kid friendly character), when Robin appeared Batman got an incredible makeover and changed radically. He was no longer a killer who was portrayed as a mysterious dark menace, but a blue, constantly smiling detective who worked during the day too. I have all the early Detective Comics and the early Batman issues

You good man, I love you. I differ with your opinions, but goddammit you make sense. Except for the whole 1941 forced makeover of Batman and Superman, that was an entire year after Robin was going around throwing bad guys off buildings to their death while Batman was shooting them.

And regarding the domino mask, there are a few Robin costumes that don't have them, for example, the two Red Robin costumes, or some of the Earth-2 costumes, or Jason's first Pre-Crisis costume.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Another thing is that I cant imagine Robin fitting in a more realistic universe at all. We're talking about a kid here, I dont think Bale's Batman (or Keaton's either) would under any circumstances agree to work with a skilled kid and agreed to have him on his side fighting crime. And even the costume alone doesn't work either, you cant hide your identity with an eye mask like this.

Yeah, but then you could have the angle where Robin tells Bruce he'll fight crime whether Bruce wants him to or not. At this point Bruce has two options. Let him, or lock him in a room. Locking him in a room is child abuse, but letting Dick make his own decision about what he wants to do is not. Bruce can refuse all he wants. If Dick wants to go out and fight crime, then there are only so many ways Bruce can stop him, and none of them are good. As far as the costume, the mask alone doesn't do the trick. The whole costume does. Even if Bruce and Dick were picked out to be Robin, which probably wouldn't happen in a million years due to Bruce's put on as a playboy, and Dick seemingly being in school all day, it's easy enough to fool someone into thinking they were wrong if you're smart. I see this in stories about alter egos ALL the time. Also, if Dick didn't know Bruce was Batman right away, as Bruce planned not to tell him right off the bat, and Dick went to school for say, two or three months before he discovered the Batcave, then that would mean that Dick didn't become Robin as soon as he was adopted by Bruce. Meaning that the connection would be even harder to make. As much as it might sound plausible, putting together the connection that a rich playboy who spends his nights with women is Batman from a ward he adopted who three months later supposedly became his sidekick is a pretty tough claim to make, especially without hard evidence, which would be pretty damn hard to procure. All in all, it's not as hard to make believable as one claims. As far as Batman and Robin's partnership and the darkness of Batman, the Animated Series handled this perfectly. Batman remained reserved and quiet and narrowed his eyes at Robin and his quips and hijinx a LOT, which eventually got Robin to learn to quit playing and focus on the mission, which he began to take seriously. Bruce might be able to act like a father and friend to Dick outside of the mission, but in the mission, it's not fun and playtime anymore. Bruce is no longer Bruce the father and friend, but Batman, the soldier and partner. With Bruce's alter ego comes a complete change in the relationship between Bruce and Dick. That's how it should be handled.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Re: Robin's domino mask. We all believed Chris Reeve's glasses disguise, and the first two movies were set in a realistic world.
The domino masks used in BF and B&R were actually pretty good i thought, esp the Nightwingesque one in B&R. The Comedian's was also effective, they do transform the user's face to a large extent, hell, even Burt Ward's did a good job of disguising his face.

and I'll tell you, I met a girl at a gig and a party one new year, got on well with her, talked away and all that, then a few weeks later I was served by her at a bar and I did not recognise her at all cause she was wearing her glasses. They were quite distinctive glasses, thickish frames, coloured, quite trendy ones, the type that do transform your face a bit.

 

[Mister H.]

Its obvious that you havent read any comic books.
At least you would have some arguements.

Not many, no. I own all the supposedly "essential" Batman graphic novels and quite a few comics featuring the Joker, along with The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told. I usually skip over any story that features Robin (unless TDKR counts).

Some folks are a lot more into the comic medium than I am and can accept a kid in a flamboyantly gay little costume fighting alongside the Dark Knight...but not me. A man dressed as a bat is pushing it, but his origin and the things he has overcome, the way he has pushed himself to the brink of what is humanly possible, and his freakish collection of enemy combatants makes it work. Robin makes it wreak of corny.

Having said all that, I'm not suggesting Robin could never work on film. I'm stating (emphatically) that he can not work in Nolan's trilogy. It won't happen, and shouldn't happen. Maybe if the next director embraces a more fantasy-based approach with super-powered characters Robin would fit right in...

 

[Secret Fawful]

Robin's costume is based on the one he wore as a circus performer. There is not one thing about this costume-

-that is uglier or less practical than Spider-Man or Batman's costume. In fact Spider-Man's costume is a great one to compare to color wise. I'm not even going to touch the gay comment. Actually yes, I will.

Looks like Robin is plenty interested in the ladies.

He even gets to get as close as he wants.

Nightwing, on the other hand, has a pansy moment and freaks both Robin and the reader out. Robin calls him out for not being a macho man like him.

Robin: 1
Nightwing: 0
You: 0

 

[Lencho01]

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Not much of a comic reader either, eh Fawful?

EDIT- Ooopsss..... Missed the smiley. Sarcasm. Gotcha.

 

[Knight Rise]

close to a picture as i can get to TDK suit

i just dont see it for this film. in the future? definetely, but not now. Why would Robin be needed as a side-kick? If Bane does truely break Batman's back, theres no way in hell Robin could go head to head with Bane alone. He would be destroyed.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

I don't see Dick Grayson as Robin in this or any Nolan film.

What I see is an orphaned young man, taken in by Bruce, who recognizes the young man's pain. Dick struggles with the same anger, and Bruce teaches him to channel it constructively.

He doesn't put on the mask, he doesn't even use the name Robin. Bruce doesn't let him go out with him; he trains him so that someday, even in seven years or more, he can fight alongside him, or even replace him.

It's not a kid sidekick. It's a surrogate son, groomed to someday carry on the mantle.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

And again, all this chronology is terribly moot. Why is it okay to fudge the order of the villains but not Robin?

If these movies were following strict chronology, he would've faced the Chemical Syndicate in Batman Begins, and would've fought Doctor Death & Hugo Strange before meeting the Joker, and certainly before Harvey Dent's transformation into Two-Face.

And he sure as hell wouldn't be meeting Bane yet, let alone getting his back broken. Tim Drake, the third Robin, was already there by that point.

 

[Knight Rise]

I don't see Dick Grayson as Robin in this or any Nolan film.

What I see is an orphaned young man, taken in by Bruce, who recognizes the young man's pain. Dick struggles with the same anger, and Bruce teaches him to channel it constructively.

He doesn't put on the mask, he doesn't even use the name Robin. Bruce doesn't let him go out with him; he trains him so that someday, even in seven years or more, he can fight alongside him, or even replace him.

It's not a kid sidekick. It's a surrogate son, groomed to someday carry on the mantle.

i dont even want Dick Grayson. maybe a hint (like the ending in my signature below), but just adding the character seems like it could cause the entire movie to lose the purpose of Bruce Wayne's story and hand it over to Dick Grayson

 

[Secret Fawful]

Not much of a comic reader either, eh Fawful?

EDIT- Ooopsss..... Missed the smiley. Sarcasm. Gotcha.

What are you talking about. The smily is there to mean that I win. My argument was serious. I read War Games, and I know the actual context of those images, yes, but it still proves that Robin likes girls. Actually, I'm sure tons of panels in lots of comics do. As far as Nightwing, I was kidding about that part.