TDKR SPOILERS (read at your own risk) - Part 5

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by Thread Manager, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. Greens

    Greens I am Danny DeVito

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    All three CB films were good this year but the scope and event-like experiences of Avengers and TDKR blow TASM away.
     
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  2. GamingFreak

    GamingFreak Well-Known Member

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    TASM had great writing? I must have dreamed up the crane scenes.
     
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  3. Broker

    Broker Well-Known Member

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    Those scenes were beyond cheesy.

    I'm a SM fan, but I thought TASM was poor and was an inferior re-make of a decade old movie.
     
    #53
  4. The_Shadow

    The_Shadow Well-Known Member

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    TDKR was fantasic, I really have no complaints. Watching it for the first time in theaters I didn't think it was too long, but I know I'll have a hard time watching it completely through the 3rd/4th/5th time I watch it on DVD.

    I found myself trying to compare TDKR and The Avengers and realized they're two completely different movies and both earn 5/5 stars.
     
    #54
  5. Atom Ant

    Atom Ant Well-Known Member

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    Why does everyone discount the Foley character? Foley is simply the representation of the "John Doe" cop of Gotham. and in part the "John Doe" citizen of Gotham. It's in him we see the effect of Batman and his symbol the most. He's not the idealistic John Blake.
    He's the everyday cop and through him we see what hope can do to inspire and shake people out of their complacency. When Bats has Gordon light that flare and it sends up the signal. And he looks out of his window and decides to fight instead of hide. that moment when he appears in his dress blues and leads the charge is when you see Bruce's mission finally comes to fruition. and yeah it's seen in the others too. Blake,Selina, the other cops etc..but it's most apparent in Foley.

    And that is what this trilogy is all about. What is Batman? A Dark Knight of justice? No. He's a symbol of hope. That if good people find the will to act that nothing is impossible.
     
    #55
  6. SpideyFan866

    SpideyFan866 Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't a remake.

    The only thing the"same" was the origin.

    And I mean really, would you rather have them butcher the origin JUST so people won't say it was a remake?
     
    #56
  7. Atom Ant

    Atom Ant Well-Known Member

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    that's just pants on head ******ed.
     
    #57
  8. SpideyFan866

    SpideyFan866 Well-Known Member

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    and TBH, Comparing TASM to Avengers and TDKR just isn't fair.

    Those are films with years and year of build up and story behind them.

    TASM is a simple origin story. One with sequel implications, but a simple origin story non the less.

    TASM is a film that deserves to be compared with the like of Iron Man and Batman Begins, not TDKR and Avengers where it really pales in comparison, really on the scope alone.
     
    #58
  9. SpideyFan866

    SpideyFan866 Well-Known Member

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    I think it goes beyond that.
     
    #59
  10. Broker

    Broker Well-Known Member

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    Re-make/re-boot: I think we are splitting hairs.

    I didn't suggest they should butcher the origin, my point was that, IMO, this origin story was a poorer version of the 2002 origin story.
     
    #60
  11. Atom Ant

    Atom Ant Well-Known Member

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    TASM wasn't terrible. But it wasn't special either.
     
    #61
  12. SpideyFan866

    SpideyFan866 Well-Known Member

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    Not really.

    Was it different?

    Yes.

    But I think they both represent the time they were made.

    If SM1 were released today, it'd be laughable.
     
    #62
  13. Broker

    Broker Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so, but that's just my personal opinion. You are entitled to yours equally.

    There's always an element looking back with rose tinted glasses, of course, but when watching TASM I felt that many of the 2002 origin scenes, such as where Peter is bitten or where he first becomes aware of his new abilities, were superior.
     
    #63
  14. SpideyFan866

    SpideyFan866 Well-Known Member

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    I kinda can agree on that.

    While I blame it mainly on the pacing, they did kinda rush through his discovery of his powers.
     
    #64
  15. Broker

    Broker Well-Known Member

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    I did feel that. But then TASM was stronger in other areas I think.

    To some degree it's horses for courses. As in, I quite like Raimi's shot of the spider chomping down on Peter, whereas others might prefer Webb's more subtle approach here.

    Part of me wanted to see him bitten by a heap of spiders when he broke into the lab!
     
    #65
  16. SpideyFan866

    SpideyFan866 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. When all those spiders fell on him, I thought they were gonna feast on him but alas, only one was able to bite.

    At least, one that we saw.
     
    #66
  17. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    So Bruce needs to completely telegraph his endgame to us in the pit? I don't agree with that at all.

    I also wasn't saying Bruce retires BECAUSE he saved Gotham from a nuclear annihilation. It's just that if you look at it that way, it seems like a great way for him to go out. If you're gonna retire Batman, that's not a bad way. Just like I thought at first, "okay well if they're gonna kill Batman, a mushroom cloud is a pretty badass way to go out"

    The reason he fakes his death as both Wayne and Batman is simple: he wants a life away from Gotham. Alfred's words about there being nothing there for him but pain and tragedy finally sink in. Not to mention the other added benefits of turning Batman into a symbol, the Manor into an orphanage. It's his way of starting over.

    Yes, the Nolans chose to keep us out of Bruce's head there until the very end. But that's why I love it. It's a very devious, methodical, and darkly heroic thing Batman/Bruce does at the end. He puts the few people he cares about in the world through hell to achieve his endgame. He's not Jesus on the cross dying to save the world. He's friggin' Batman. I love how the ending reinforced that. It also played off Bruce's paranoia for him to truly sever his ties to everyone like that.

    Did the Nolans and Goyer choose to present it that way because they wanted drama, speeches, crying, etc? Well, sure. And it paid off in spades for me.

    You don't have to like it The Guard, I'm sure you will debunk everything I've said here blow by blow and explain why it didn't have to be that way, but all I'm saying is that for me and many others, the ending worked emotionally, it worked for the character, and it was as satisfying a conclusion to Batman's story as I've ever seen, even if I could have more or less guessed it. The execution of it, the music, Bruce's funeral, Caine's performance...it had impact.

    When you watch the movie a second time with the mindset that post-pit Bruce knows that stopping the nuke is his last mission, things just fall into place a bit more. The fact that he lures Selina to his side with the clean slate, etc.

    People might say the movie "cheated" us there, but I don't think so. The first time you watch it, maybe. But the movie is not designed to be watched just once. Nolan knows we'll be watching this movie for years to come. Personally, I'm glad there's no moment in which the movie lets us in on Bruce's plan. It's just not something I want to see, I like it more as Bruce's "prestige" as it were. If you're looking at "The Pit" as the movie-verse version of a Lazarus Pit, it just seems so fitting that he makes it out of there and ends up getting a "new life" as it were.
     
    #67
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
  18. tdeverea

    tdeverea Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I like TASM better than IM for sure. BB just plain kicks a$$ from a story-telling standpoint, and is likely the best origin film ever for a comic book character. For me, only Casino Royale beats it by a hair in the 'overall' category for iconic character origins.
     
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  19. Reikowolf

    Reikowolf Hyperphotonic

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    I was of the same mind. My argument was founded on how poorly Green Lantern was received. It very much followed the same format as the first Raimi Spider-Man, which was fine in 2002; but TDK was a game changer for the comic book genre.

    To that end, I view TASM as parallel to begins, a great starting point and can go so many interesting and great places with the character and mythology (IMHO it's like the Ultimate Universe Anyway)

    My only real grievance is how they should have tied it to Avengers, especially with the Crane scene... would it not make a lot of sense if the cranes were their because they were rebuilding Manhattan after the events of Avengers??
     
    #69
  20. tdeverea

    tdeverea Well-Known Member

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    I think there was too much cut from Webb's vision. The director's cut may be quite special. I hope we get to see it.
     
    #70
  21. Reikowolf

    Reikowolf Hyperphotonic

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    I've said it more than a few times, the script is thick but it all makes sense to the viewer that is paying attention. It's a very solid script and many of the grievances I've noted are based on people's personal tastes and preferences... their expectations do not allow them to enjoy it as much as they could.

    Many argue how it went away from the crime-drama elements from TDK, which completely skews their opinion of the movie if that's what they were expecting.

    This is very much a terrorism story, which could be argued as being even more "real" and relevant to today's society. The stakes are at the highest they could be for a Batman story in Nolan's universe.
     
    #71
  22. shallbecomeabat

    shallbecomeabat Yes, father...

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    Matter of opinion. Man, you really start to annoy the crap out of me with all your negativity. We all get you didn't liked it. You don't have to be a ***** about it. And again with the Avengers thing. At least try some new material, man. Boring.
    I still loved it, think its the best out of the three and the best comic book movie in general. GO RISES!
     
    #72
  23. Reikowolf

    Reikowolf Hyperphotonic

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    haha.

    I had a pool going this summer for top grossing summer movie.

    I had no doubt Avengers would take it. I knew TDKR would be the better movie though.

    I don't think it's fair to compare the two, I loved Avengers; but I also loved TDKR. There's def. room to like both in very different ways and even in some of the same ways.
     
    #73
  24. kthevs

    kthevs Well-Known Member

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    A little off topic, but i just got the official novel, and it confirms that Bruce gives Selina the pearl necklace that belonged to his mother.

    Bruce is going to get some!
     
    #74
  25. Atom Ant

    Atom Ant Well-Known Member

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    I can think of several reasons he'd want to lost his Bruce Wayne identity.
    For one he can't be sure that no one else could ever find out or already knows that he was Batman. And he still has a lot of powerful enemies. This protects Alfred and Selina to some extent.

    another is he won't be hounded by paparazzi. he can live pretty normally as long as he keeps a low profile.
     
    #75

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