The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 20

[Dark Raven]

It's weird, even though he screwed up two FF films, I've always had a soft-spot in my heart for Tim Story. I feel like he meant well, and would have made better films if he could, but he just didn't know how to make them work.

Simon Kinberg, on the other hand, annoys me no end. He had an arrogant attitude and apparent contempt for the FF. He seemed to think he was smarter than the comic-book writers and fans and there was something wrong with us for not recognizing his brilliance.

You still don't recognise it!!

 

[Detective Conan]

The 2005 film was a perfectly decent superhero film kept from being better by a cliched script.
"It's better writing if the villain's origin is tied to the hero's, as we learned from Batman in 1989."
"This character is a genius inventor, so he's a socially awkward geek.

The 2005 film was not a perfectly decent superhero film. It's godawful imo.

 

[MasterCat]

The 2005 film was not a perfectly decent superhero film. It's godawful imo.

Why? Because of Doctor Doom? That was a completely average decision, a legacy of how comic book movies have been written since 1989. It was considered sloppy writing to have a villain whose origin has nothing to do with the heroes
Bad actors like Chris Evans and Ioan Gruffudd?
Technology not advanced enough? Like I said, the source material has a problem with Reed being a supervillain who lets his fellow citizens die of cancer, which he totally cured in a weekend.
It was a fresh, family-friendly, utterly average entry in the genre.

 

[TheVileOne]

Wolverine being Canadian is a major part of his character. He's also one of the few prominent Canadian superheroes.

Also, part of Wolverine's creation was if the writers could write a Canadian accent in comic form.

 

[MasterCat]

Now here were some really awful superhero films:
Superman 3 & 4
Batman Forever and and Robin
Catwoman
Daredevil and Elektra
Ghost Rider
X-Men 3
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
Green Lantern
Thor: The Dark World
ASM 2

 

[The Infernal]

I wish. But I don't want to set my hopes too high. IMHO always one of the best and most iconic looks in comics. I don't get why filmmakers tend not to agree.

I prefer the classic blue and yellow, however I do also like how the red/brown and yellow is drawn in older comics that I wouldn't mind seeing a version of it for a film or two.

If they ever do flashbacks to his team X days then I'd love to see them adapt those costumes too. Hopefully with both Sabretooth and Pre-Deadpool Wade Wilson and Maverick.

Yup, Charles is American. I guess some people think he must be British from the movies having Stewart & McAvoy play the part.

Huh. I always thought Xavier was American. ...just like I thought Picard was French.

 

[MasterCat]

If they ever do flashbacks to his team X days then I'd love to see them adapt those costumes too. Hopefully with both Sabretooth and Pre-Deadpool Wade Wilson and Maverick.

Oh fun, an X-Men Origins: Wolverine remake!

 

[The Infernal]

Origins did a disservice to those characters, but I would like to see them interact as a team within a better film and the first Deadpool did hunt at him having a shady military background. Not that I'd like all of most of any potential film to dwell on that.

 

[Detective Conan]

Why? Because of Doctor Doom? That was a completely average decision, a legacy of how comic book movies have been written since 1989. It was considered sloppy writing to have a villain whose origin has nothing to do with the heroes
Bad actors like Chris Evans and Ioan Gruffudd?
Technology not advanced enough? Like I said, the source material has a problem with Reed being a supervillain who lets his fellow citizens die of cancer, which he totally cured in a weekend.
It was a fresh, family-friendly, utterly average entry in the genre.

It’s a severely awful film imo.

-Characterizations are bad(Everyone is written horribly especially Sue who’s both written and acted terribly).


Jessica Alba and Ian Groffoad have no chemistry.

- there’s no stakes. But approaching things so comedically a lot of the sad, heartfelt moments don’t register because the film is too goofy.

The film isn’t shot/edited well — there’s poor scene transitions, and flat camera work.

The plot is plodding. The story meanders and barely anything happens after they get their powers.

lol on you calling it ‘fresh’. It’s about as fresh as Fan4stic was fun. No offense I just can’t take you seriously after what you just wrote.

Chris Evans and Micheal Chiklis weren’t enough to save this turd of a film.

It’s just so sadly mediocre.

 

[MasterCat]

lol on you calling it ‘fresh’. It’s about as fresh as Fan4stic was fun. No offense I just can’t take you seriously after what you just wrote.

Well I can't take you seriously if you think a good Fantastic 4 film involves a Sue Storm whose actress is pushing 40, a 40-something supervillain Reed like the main comics continuity, and an antagonist general audiences have never heard of.

 

[Detective Conan]

Well I can't take you seriously if you think a good Fantastic 4 film involves a Sue Storm whose actress is pushing 40, a 40-something supervillain Reed like the main comics continuity, and an antagonist general audiences have never heard of.

:

 

[Crimz]

It’s a severely awful film imo.

-Characterizations are bad(Everyone is written horribly especially Sue who’s both written and acted terribly).


Jessica Alba and Ian Groffoad have no chemistry.

- there’s no stakes. But approaching things so comedically a lot of the sad, heartfelt moments don’t register because the film is too goofy.

The film isn’t shot/edited well — there’s poor scene transitions, and flat camera work.

The plot is plodding. The story meanders and barely anything happens after they get their powers.

lol on you calling it ‘fresh’. It’s about as fresh as Fan4stic was fun. No offense I just can’t take you seriously after what you just wrote.

Chris Evans and Micheal Chiklis weren’t enough to save this turd of a film.

It’s just so sadly mediocre.

Also they took away one of the most important aspects of the team. That they were explorers. They never explored anything and were just another run-of-the-mill superhero team. Most of their time was spent in the Baxter Building and indoors. It was ridiculous.

 

[Crimz]

Well I can't take you seriously if you think a good Fantastic 4 film involves a Sue Storm whose actress is pushing 40, a 40-something supervillain Reed like the main comics continuity, and an antagonist general audiences have never heard of.

Careful, your ageism is showing. Sue in the comics is around that mid 30s to early 40s and is still awesome. If anything the worst Sue was when she was the young Invisible Girl who was just there to be the girl of the team. So I don't understand your obsession with making her as young as Spider-man of all people.

Reed is not a villain in comics, ironically it's his younger alternate reality version that is.#

When Marvel gets actors for Reed and Sue they will be in their 30s/40s. I still think Evan Rachel Wood would be an awesome Sue.

 

[MasterCat]

Careful, your ageism is showing.
Sue in the comics is around that mid 30s to early 40s and is still awesome.

Why is it ageism to want diversity? I've already been emotionally invested in Gwyneth Paltrow's menopausal romance arc and Evangeline Lilly's, where she'll be over 40 if Hope and Scott even get married at all. I'm over that. I'm only interested in a marriage-and-kids arc that's close to the statistical average, not the third romance arc in that narrow age range where the early 40s-50s man is a science hero.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Sue was not in her mid-30s or older when she got in that spacecraft. You're looking at a Sue with 12+ years of sliding timeline and two children behind her and thinking that's appropriate for an FF movie where they first launch the spacecraft.

Reed is not a villain in comics, ironically it's his younger alternate reality version that is.

Oh yes he is. He murdered Bill Foster with a mind-controlled clone of Thor and built an internment camp in the Negative Zone for people with superpowers who civilly resisted the Draft. Plus no one outside his immediate family is allowed to use his life-saving inventions, whereas Doom and Black Panther spread their inventions.

 

[Marvel united]

I don't think Sue should be 40 but early 20s is too young. She should be in her late 20s to early 30s imo

 

[MasterCat]

I don't think Sue should be 40 but early 20s is too young. She should be in her late 20s to early 30s imo

Why should she be much older than her brother? Would you make them half siblings or what?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Wolverine being Canadian is a major part of his character. He's also one of the few prominent Canadian superheroes.

Also, part of Wolverine's creation was if the writers could write a Canadian accent in comic form.

Wolverine absolutely should be Canadian. I just don't necessarily think he needs to be played by a Canadian. Jackman's Wolverine wasn't Australian just because Jackman is.

 

[Marvel united]

Why should she be much older than her brother? Would you make them half siblings or what?

Because she shouldn't be younger than the youngest Avenger (Spider-Man) youngest I would be ok with is 25

 

[fan4stic]

It’s a severely awful film imo.

-Characterizations are bad(Everyone is written horribly especially Sue who’s both written and acted terribly).


Jessica Alba and Ian Groffoad have no chemistry.

- there’s no stakes. But approaching things so comedically a lot of the sad, heartfelt moments don’t register because the film is too goofy.

I don't see how that's so and Sue I think is acted at worst averagely and her character just is meh.

I don't get chemistry arguments. I think chemistry is subjective. I think they're acceptable. Like Peggy/Steve. The most interesting I found their relationship is when they were separated and pining for eachother.

There's plenty goofiness, sure, but I think it's closer to a courtroom drama in comparison to Ragnarok, which undercuts almost everything with a joke.

The film isn’t shot/edited well — there’s poor scene transitions, and flat camera work.

The plot is plodding. The story meanders and barely anything happens after they get their powers.

lol on you calling it ‘fresh’. It’s about as fresh as Fan4stic was fun. No offense I just can’t take you seriously after what you just wrote.

Chris Evans and Micheal Chiklis weren’t enough to save this turd of a film.

It’s just so sadly mediocre.

Meh.

I don't agree. It does and doesn't. Parts progress the story. Not all parts do though.

Being mediocre isn't awful.

 

[MasterCat]

Because she shouldn't be younger than the youngest Avenger (Spider-Man) youngest I would be ok with is 25

That's fine. Can you name a good actress for the part who would be 25 in 2022?

 

[Marvel united]

That's fine. Can you name a good actress for the part who would be 25 in 2022?

Uh, 2022? Sue could be introduced wayy before that.

 

[MasterCat]

Uh, 2022? Sue could be introduced wayy before that.

Why? Why is it important to you to shove her into someone else's movie rather than starting with Fantastic 4?

 

[Detective Conan]

I don't see how that's so and Sue I think is acted at worst averagely and her character just is meh.

I don't get chemistry arguments. I think chemistry is subjective. I think they're acceptable. Like Peggy/Steve. The most interesting I found their relationship is when they were separated and pining for eachother.

There's plenty goofiness, sure, but I think it's closer to a courtroom drama in comparison to Ragnarok, which undercuts almost everything with a joke.Meh.

I don't agree. It does and doesn't. Parts progress the story. Not all parts do though.

Being mediocre isn't awful.

It’s all subjective. I just don’t think they handled the tone well. The balance of humor, and drama is just not done well from my view.

And while the Reed and Sue romance isn’t Anakin & Padme levels of cringeworthiness I just don’t like how those characters are written or acted together. And it doesn’t help that Alba isn’t a very good actress. And I feel the plot moves a glacial pace after the accident. Feel free to disagree, My opinion of the film being a hot piece of garbage will not change. And I stand by everything I said.

 

[Marvel united]

Why? Why is it important to you to shove her into someone else's movie rather than starting with Fantastic 4?

Because it would suck to wait nearly 5 years after the deal is finalized to see the F4 in the MCU. 2022 is the latest they'd have to make the movie. If its done by December - Marvel could immediately begin development on a F4 film and make a 2021 release.

Besides that fact, they can and should introduce these characters in another character's film first. The F4 brand is highly toxic right now and the best way to rejuvenate the franchise is through the MCU brand.

 

[MasterCat]

Because it would suck to wait nearly 5 years after the deal is finalized to see the F4 in the MCU. 2022 is the latest they'd have to make the movie. If its done by December - Marvel could immediately begin development on a F4 film and make a 2021 release.

Feige is not going to push back The Eternals from 2021 "because it would suck" for you.

Besides that fact, they can and should introduce these characters in another character's film first. The F4 brand is highly toxic right now and the best way to rejuvenate the franchise is through the MCU brand.

That's really stupid at this point. The Fantastic 4 aren't going to get superpowers from being in a poorly-shielded spacecraft in Black Widow or Doctor Strange 2, and stuffing that into Guardians of the Galaxy vol 3 would make it an overstuffed pile of garbage when there are so many new characters to introduce organically (Adam Warlock, the High Evolutionary, Moondragon, etc.)