The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Iceman]

Does everybody realize that we're ahead of schedule, not behind? This will almost certainly be wrapped up sooner, not later than they had originally planned.

And I'm sure Feige already has a detailed, long-range plan that isn't highly dependent on whether this closes in February or March.

It will be closed soon enough. After all the waiting I've done, I feel like a convict in the last few months of my sentence. I'm looking forward to being out in a few months, not thinking "damn it, I've still got a few more months to go".

Exactly how I see it.

 

[Random490]

Hate to be the debbie downer here but I think it’s very unlikely that Daredevil ever gets revived and Charlie Cox reprises the role again after this news. Two years may not sound like a lot of especially in comparison to the time it takes for the properties that Marvel licenses to Fox to revert back(if they don’t meet the deadline) but that is still enough time for the cast to go and find other work as they’ve been essentially been released from their contracts so we may end up in a situation where people like Cox won’t even be availabile to due to new contractual obligations he has to fulfill by the time Marvel gets the rights back from Netflix. Same case with the other Netflix Marvel stuff. It’s likely Cox and cast will have already moved by then so Marvel most likely willl have to move on as well. Cox and the cast certainly aren’t gonna lie down and wait until 2020 for them to start working again so I’m afraid it’s pretty much over.

I feel like a lot of the actor would be happy to return to the roles and do their best to find a way to make it work. But you're right without any kind of guarantee they can't just sit around and have to find work. I hope Marvel Television is already working to secure deals. If they can get a commitment from say Hulu or FX they could make contracts ahead of time.

In fact, depending on how the contract is written it's possible they could start making new seasons right now and just not premiere them until 2020. A similar thing happened to Conan O'Brien after the NBC fiasco, he wasn't permitted to appear on television but the moment that ended they ran a 60 minutes piece on him that they already filmed. Whether these shows continue depends heavily on Marvel Television getting a deal with a different platform. A part of me is hopeful, since after both Iron Fist and Luke Cage got canceled Marvel Television didn't concede to changes tells me they have a back up already set. Unless they were foolish enough to assume Disney+ would automatically pick them up without talking to them, in which case this may be the biggest blunder in television in quite some time. Or they, themselves have written off these shows and are just saving face.

An interesting question is, it's rumored that Luke Cage will appear in Jessica Jones season 3. If that's so then does that mean he can't appear until 2 year after his show was canceled or after JJ season 3 airs and what about side characters like Misty? If it's the former that means the earliest one of these characters appear is June 2020.

I wish that mergers of American companies do not require international approvals because it is so ridiculous and I wanted this to be done after the shareholders vote.

They may be American companies but much of their business is international. Merges of these sizes are really important to review in detail because they can have huge implications not only for the economy but governments and societies as well. These regulations exist for very important reasons and should never be disregarded so that two licensing deals can be nullified slight sooner to please a fandom.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I feel like a lot of the actor would be happy to return to the roles and do their best to find a way to make it work. But you're right without any kind of guarantee they can't just sit around and have to find work. I hope Marvel Television is already working to secure deals. If they can get a commitment from say Hulu or FX they could make contracts ahead of time.

In fact, depending on how the contract is written it's possible they could start making new seasons right now and just not premiere them until 2020. A similar thing happened to Conan O'Brien after the NBC fiasco, he wasn't permitted to appear on television but the moment that ended they ran a 60 minutes piece on him that they already filmed. Whether these shows continue depends heavily on Marvel Television getting a deal with a different platform. A part of me is hopeful, since after both Iron Fist and Luke Cage got canceled Marvel Television didn't concede to changes tells me they have a back up already set. Unless they were foolish enough to assume Disney+ would automatically pick them up without talking to them, in which case this may be the biggest blunder in television in quite some time. Or they, themselves have written off these shows and are just saving face.

An interesting question is, it's rumored that Luke Cage will appear in Jessica Jones season 3. If that's so then does that mean he can't appear until 2 year after his show was canceled or after JJ season 3 airs and what about side characters like Misty? If it's the former that means the earliest one of these characters appear is June 2020.

You raise a lot of valid questions. There is a lot of unknown to how the 2 year freeze works if someone appears in another show. But that said, my guess is we won't see movement on actual work on shows until the freeze is over. But I do hope they had some conversations with the actors about making sure their schedule is free in 2 years, especially the Daredevil cast. Maybe even offer a hand shake agreement or raise of some kind. I don't think the 2 year freeze is the deal breaker others are trying to make it out as, but it is a hurdle certainly. But other shows have been brought back after the fact a few years later, so no reason to think it's impossible. Especially for a character like Frank Castle, who really only Jon Bernthal matters. He can have an all new cast easily. I think they can make this work regardless, though. It will just come down to do they want to bring these shows back? I am really hoping they do.

 

[Bach]

I don't get why would Marvel even agree to something like that. It's as if they didn't learn anything from the movie licencing thing.

 

[Smurphftw]

Does everybody realize that we're ahead of schedule, not behind? This will almost certainly be wrapped up sooner, not later than they had originally planned.

And I'm sure Feige already has a detailed, long-range plan that isn't highly dependent on whether this closes in February or March.

It will be closed soon enough. After all the waiting I've done, I feel like a convict in the last few months of my sentence. I'm looking forward to being out in a few months, not thinking "damn it, I've still got a few more months to go".

The difference is the convict usually knows the EXACT day of his release.

Imagine if that same convict was told by his lawyer "I'm 99% sure you are going to be released from jail very soon. Could be tomorrow, could be 3 months, could be 6 months, but it's almost assuredly going to happen believe me!"

In that case I think said hypothetical convict would have every right to feel impatient and a little frustrated.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Will one of you guys come get Simple Simon?

Thank Stan Lee that he won't be in control of the X-movies after this month. Enough is enough.

 

[Smurphftw]

Will one of you guys come get Simple Simon?

Thank Stan Lee that he won't be in control of the X-movies after this month. Enough is enough.

Wow ..... there is so much wrong with what he said I don't even know where to begin. Actually I do. He mentioned it's tonally different from previous X-Men films. Riiiiiiight. The tone looks identical to me, with the big difference being it won't have the benefit of Singer's competent directing skills.

Also I loved how at the end it says the Gambit was still on Fox's release date schedule for 2020. I think that movie has about as much chance of getting made as a Fant4stic sequel.

 

[Iceman]

Fant42tic is a film name that deserves to get made.

 

[divan]

I don't get why would Marvel even agree to something like that. It's as if they didn't learn anything from the movie licencing thing.

Because at Marvel Studios they weren't really interested on the characters at the time and thought that if someone could get them to make money it was better than having them collecting dust. Netflix wanted some heavy-hitting exclusive programming and Marvel TV probably thought that with a faux MCU connection the shows would sell themselves. Plus, comparatively speaking, two years is nothing, Marvel's old "deals" prevented them from using some of their characters for a couple of decades.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Will one of you guys come get Simple Simon?

Thank Stan Lee that he won't be in control of the X-movies after this month. Enough is enough.

Wow ..... there is so much wrong with what he said I don't even know where to begin. Actually I do. He mentioned it's tonally different from previous X-Men films. Riiiiiiight. The tone looks identical to me, with the big difference being it won't have the benefit of Singer's competent directing skills.

Also I loved how at the end it says the Gambit was still on Fox's release date schedule for 2020. I think that movie has about as much chance of getting made as a Fant4stic sequel.

Basically he's just continuing to say it will be "grounded and gritty", but at least Logan benefited from a simpler approach. It makes sense to make Logan "grounded and gritty". Who wants a grounded and gritty Dark Phoenix? Dark Phoenix should be huge and epic. It's not a small story.

It's really just a justification for a cheap film with a lousy director.

I'm expecting this to be painfully bad and after Kinberg thumbed his nose at FF fans throughout Fant4stic before delivering that steaming pile, I'm going to enjoy every painfully terrible moment of this train-wreck.

... and hopefully he will be genuinely surprised when marvel doesn't hire him on to do more.

 

[WeaponXCII]

“... 2000 or 2001 when the first one came out.”

He doesn’t even know when the franchise started.

Jesus. Christ.

 

[Marvel united]

The franchise has been grounded and gritty since 2000. What is he talking about?

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

He's the Sarah Palin of comic book movies.

 

[Random490]

You raise a lot of valid questions. There is a lot of unknown to how the 2 year freeze works if someone appears in another show. But that said, my guess is we won't see movement on actual work on shows until the freeze is over. But I do hope they had some conversations with the actors about making sure their schedule is free in 2 years, especially the Daredevil cast. Maybe even offer a hand shake agreement or raise of some kind. I don't think the 2 year freeze is the deal breaker others are trying to make it out as, but it is a hurdle certainly. But other shows have been brought back after the fact a few years later, so no reason to think it's impossible. Especially for a character like Frank Castle, who really only Jon Bernthal matters. He can have an all new cast easily. I think they can make this work regardless, though. It will just come down to do they want to bring these shows back? I am really hoping they do.

So much depends on Marvel's next move. But if they do intend to continue these shows on another platform with the same cast and have a deal in place I would not be surprised on an official announcement to be made sometime after JJ season 3 premieres and production to start several months before the two year limit.

Optimistically if Marvel will/already secures a network/platform/service deal then we may get an announcement as early as spring 2019, production start in winter of 2019/20, and a new season Summer 2020 at the earliest.

I don't get why would Marvel even agree to something like that. It's as if they didn't learn anything from the movie licencing thing.

This is very different from movie licensing and non-compete clauses are very common in all businesses not just television. It protects Netflix from being taken advantage of, for instance without it Marvel could make outrages demands they know Netflix would say "no" to in order to be canceled on purpose so they can move over to a different network without breaking their contract. Also avoids having a direct competition

In the Conan example NBC was forced to pay millions in letting him out of his contract but in return he was not allow on tv for 6 months and could not host his own talk show for two years. So he couldn't immediately take the ratings away from NBC shows. Or a vindictive employee takes a whole bunch of clients with him when leaving a company. It's not one side screwing over the other but more a matter of protecting themselves and enforcing common courtesy.

Many times networks are willing to wave this and grant permission for showrunners to pitch revivals on other networks. I know when Firefly was canceled Fox gave Whedon permission to find another network. Considering Netflix's dependency on exclusivity I don't see them waving that clause. Depending on the relationship with Marvel and Netflix I can see them shortening the time frame if Marvel requests it. Still I doubt it would happen.

Based purely on my own speculation on their relationship I don't think Netflix will threaten legal action if Marvels want Luke Cage season 3 to premiere in June 2020 even if he appears in Jessica Jones season 3. Likewise I don't think they'll enforce this on any supporting character of the shows. I think they'll be lenient when it comes to a series being revived. But stricter when it comes to new shows or films. For example I would not be surprised if they allowed Danny or Colleen to guest star in LC season 3 before their own series embargo is lifted since it's only a few months difference anyway.

What I'm certain they would be strict about is if Marvel gets devious. Since Defenders was technically canceled a year ago does that mean they can have those 4 characters appear in a Defenders show next year? I'm certain Netflix would throw a fit and since the report says "Character" not "show" I doubt Marvel could even try. Still, summer 2020 should not be too much a problem.

In ANY hypothetical case the sooner Marvel secures a new platform the better chances these shows have.

Will one of you guys come get Simple Simon?

Thank Stan Lee that he won't be in control of the X-movies after this month. Enough is enough.

Just a marketing ploy so people don't see this film as pointless due to the rights reversion. Same thing with the F4/X-men crossover rumor years ago. It's all just a PR move.

 

[GoblinScrier]

He's the Sarah Palin of comic book movies.

Or that lunatic nutjob Cortez from New York...just keep it fair and balanced

 

[Dark Raven]

Basically he's just continuing to say it will be "grounded and gritty", but at least Logan benefited from a simpler approach. It makes sense to make Logan "grounded and gritty". Who wants a grounded and gritty Dark Phoenix? Dark Phoenix should be huge and epic. It's not a small story.

It's really just a justification for a cheap film with a lousy director.

I'm expecting this to be painfully bad and after Kinberg thumbed his nose at FF fans throughout Fant4stic before delivering that steaming pile, I'm going to enjoy every painfully terrible moment of this train-wreck.

... and hopefully he will be genuinely surprised when marvel doesn't hire him on to do more.

Why will Kinberg think that Marvel is even going to hire him at all? As far as he knows, everything is still continuing under Fox. He doesn't even know about the Disney-Fox deal. If he knows anything about it at all, it's that he thinks Fox took over Disney and that the MCU will come into the Fox verse.

So he's not thinking in terms of Marvel hiring him when he believes his job is secure and everything will continue as normal. He still probably has plans for Fant42stic.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Will one of you guys come get Simple Simon?

Thank Stan Lee that he won't be in control of the X-movies after this month. Enough is enough.

The guy just loves to talk out of both sides of his mouth. Picks "This is the End" for his trailer but can't wait to talk about this franchise's next chapter (Way to ruin the "surprise" Simon!). Besides he will have absolutely no say in who directs the next one, much less how it should be done.

It's funny his description of his directorial debut, wanting it to be more "analogue" and "hand-made" reminds me so much of how he was selling the first Fant4stic movie.

Anyways, he also talked up his studio's Fant4stic sequel after the first movie bombed spectacularly, so him looking towards the future for a sequel to this Dark Phoenix mess really isn't saying much. I wouldn't pay any mind to whatever PR stunt he throws out there. I mean I do, I care very much about what he says and how dumb it all comes off, especially when framed against all the other things he's said about movies that we later found out (to the absolute surprise of no one) sucked donkey ballz. The stupidity infuriates. People on the X-boards buying into it and applauding it infuriates me even more.

 

[Detective Conan]

Guys remember this?

“It’s Not A Disaster”: Simon Kinberg Promises ‘Fantastic Four’ Is “A Good Movie”

Classic Kinberg.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Guys remember this?

“It’s Not A Disaster”: Simon Kinberg Promises ‘Fantastic Four’ Is “A Good Movie”

Classic Kinberg.

What's crazy is he didn't seem to learn a damn thing. Throughout FF, he kept talking about how grounded and gritty he wanted to make it, and all of us were screaming through our keyboards, as clearly as could be imagined: "The Fantastic Four isn't grounded and gritty. They're high-flying cosmic adventurers."

And now he's absolutely insisting on taking the same approach with Dark Phoenix - another story that should be bold and big - after if failed so miserably with FF. Does he somehow think that a bad idea will turn good if he just keeps doing it?

 

[Spidey_62]

Guys remember this?

“It’s Not A Disaster”: Simon Kinberg Promises ‘Fantastic Four’ Is “A Good Movie”

Classic Kinberg.

Ah, yes haha. I mean of course he had to say stuff like that to try and avert the landslide of terrible press that movie was getting, but boy does it not bother him lying about this stuff all the time (or did he genuinely believe Fant4stic looked good behind the scenes) or knowing it's coming to an end but still doing the PR friendly talk about the future? I don't know, the guy always seems disconnected and disingenuous.

 

[Joe Rockhead]

What's crazy is he didn't seem to learn a damn thing. Throughout FF, he kept talking about how grounded and gritty he wanted to make it, and all of us were screaming through our keyboards, as clearly as could be imagined: "The Fantastic Four isn't grounded and gritty. They're high-flying cosmic adventurers."

And now he's absolutely insisting on taking the same approach with Dark Phoenix - another story that should be bold and big - after if failed so miserably with FF. Does he somehow think that a bad idea will turn good if he just keeps doing it?

Just remember -- he felt that he needed the second chance at Dark Phoenix due to his failures with the first one.
At least the first one, you had SOME level of relationship established between Scott and Jean in the prior movies before she went dark. And that was wasted by eliminating Scott at the very beginning, turning it into a Logan/Jean thing.

In Apocalypse, they didn't do a damn thing with Jean's relationship with Scott, or anyone else for that matter. So why should we care when she goes all dark and violent in the new film?

Kinberg is just clueless.

 

[Darkprime]

Does everybody realize that we're ahead of schedule, not behind? This will almost certainly be wrapped up sooner, not later than they had originally planned.

And I'm sure Feige already has a detailed, long-range plan that isn't highly dependent on whether this closes in February or March.

It will be closed soon enough. After all the waiting I've done, I feel like a convict in the last few months of my sentence. I'm looking forward to being out in a few months, not thinking "damn it, I've still got a few more months to go".

Exactly I think there's a lot of overreaction over the Brazil thing. we have approval from China and Europe already! I don't think even Disney expected to get those before the end of this year. The deal is like 95% done at this point. Brazil is a bump in the road and will get sorted I'm betting the deal closes in early April .

 

[Darkprime]

What's crazy is he didn't seem to learn a damn thing. Throughout FF, he kept talking about how grounded and gritty he wanted to make it, and all of us were screaming through our keyboards, as clearly as could be imagined: "The Fantastic Four isn't grounded and gritty. They're high-flying cosmic adventurers."

And now he's absolutely insisting on taking the same approach with Dark Phoenix - another story that should be bold and big - after if failed so miserably with FF. Does he somehow think that a bad idea will turn good if he just keeps doing it?

There's a reason they kept pushing the grounded and gritty thing. Fantastic Four 2015 at one point was supposed to crossover with the X-Men possibly with DOFP given the film dealt with different timelines and universes it would have made sense but for whatever reason they scrapped the idea. Probably as Fantastic Four got further and further into development they knew it would be bad.

 

[MbJ]

The difference is the convict usually knows the EXACT day of his release.

Imagine if that same convict was told by his lawyer "I'm 99% sure you are going to be released from jail very soon. Could be tomorrow, could be 3 months, could be 6 months, but it's almost assuredly going to happen believe me!"

In that case I think said hypothetical convict would have every right to feel impatient and a little frustrated.

To reiterate, there was always going to be some sort of gap. It's not like the X-Men and FF were going to be showing up tomorrow as soon as the deal is passed. That Marvel is still moving ahead on movies like Shang-Chi, The Eternals (the latter of which is currently casting) and Black Widow, all of which some on this site assured me totally weren't gonna happen since Marvel was gonna get their golden gooses back, is a pretty strong indication these characters are not immediately jumping ahead of the line.

Not to mention that they're already developing movies that they've been ostensibly working on for years like Shang-Chi & The Eternals. If they were to suddenly get back some of their most valuable IP with the snap of a finger and not some long process like we're seeing, those movies would likely be shelved for a later time.

I think it's especially good because the way to combatting superhero fatigue is giving audiences something they haven't already seen before.

 

[PsylockeBlackWidow]

Exactly I think there's a lot of overreaction over the Brazil thing. we have approval from China and Europe already! I don't think even Disney expected to get those before the end of this year. The deal is like 95% done at this point. Brazil is a bump in the road and will get sorted I'm betting the deal closes in early April .

In fact here is some good news: CADE Likely to Clear Fox/Disney with Behavioral Remedies Early in 2019