The leap to him being Batman is a logical one once, as shauner explained, that connection was made.
No, it’s not a logical leap. PLENTY of people hide who they are, and hide pain, and some of them are wealthy? Are they all likely to be Batman, too?
If you notice the structure, it's never directly about Batman the figure, but about two people who've dealt with pain with no real outlet to truly manifest that in.
No, it’s very much about Batman the figure as well.
I think you're wrong ( i guess we'll have to agree to disagree). He doesnt say "i knew u were Batman then and there" he says right then i knew who you really were. If you can't look past the surface of that then like i said before, i feel sorry for you and the others. You're not understanding the scene at all. "Hiding pain = being Batman apparently to Blake." - really? that tells me that you just simply didn't understand the monologue and what he was saying.
That’s part of what the scene was saying. It may ALSO have referred to their commonalities. But that’s very much what it was saying. That he knows Bruce was Batman because of their shared experiences, because he recognized them in himself and in Bruce.
In the scene, Blake says “I knew who you were”. Not “what you were”. Not “how you felt”. Not “that you felt like me”.
“I knew who you were”.
You know what’s most telling about the intent of the scene? About its meaning? It’s a
separate thought from the rest of what Blake says. He makes separate points about how HE felt, about how he realized how Bruce felt, and then about “who” he realized Bruce was. They are separate thoughts. Otherwise, he’s rambling on redundantly. He wasn’t, he was coming to a series of points. One of his points is that he knows who Batman is.
Subtext and intention are a big part of Nolans movies.
Yes. But he doesn’t use subtext every time. And when he does, you can’t just force what you want it to mean into what the subtext actually means in context.
- Looked the part
- Had the motive
- Had the money
- Was not as carefree as he was pretending
- Was mysteriously missing for 7 years and returned to Gotham within months of the Batman's first appearance
And that's all without lifting a finger and just being wiling to consider these significant factors that are staring him in the face.
And yet none of this, other than Bruce being rich and not being as carefree as he was pretending to be (probably the LEAST telling thing that would tip someone off that someone was Batman), was even remotely hinted at in Blake’s speech to Bruce. Would have been nice if it had been. Would have brought things full circle even more.
What exactly is Nolan subtle at then?
Story and writingwise? Very little.
His directing has visual subtleties to it, as almost ANY good director’s work does.
His actors often bring subtlety to their roles, but not as a whole. It’s clear that he just hires some very good actors who understand the subtle approach more than he injects any real subtlety into his directing of actors.
But the writing? Usually about as subtle as a sledgehammer.
Dialogue aside, he has definitely been acclaimed for his subtlety as a filmmaker and in trusting the audience to engage with the material and put things together for themselves. It's one of the big reasons I'm a fan of his. It's the reason why so many of us are quick to dive into subtext when it comes to TDKR. It's loaded with it.
May he shouldn’t be so lauded for it, then. Not anymore, at least. He trusts the audience to engage and put it together for themselves when he outright tells them what’s going on and usually puts it together for them?
Also, subtext isn’t necessarily “subtlety”. This is the thing some people don’t seem to grasp.
When a plumber says “I’ll fix your pipes for you, ma’am” in a lecherous manner, there’s subtext there, but ain’t nothin’ subtle about it.
Nice subtle line there that Bruce also lost Rachel, too, because he loved her as much as Harvey did. Underrated great acting moment from Bale, too.
That’s not really all that subtle, either. What would have been truly subtle is if Batman had just not said anything, and you saw the pain in his eyes, and then he put aside his pain to try to help Harvey.
I think we're destined to do this forever.
Dibs on being the unstoppable force.
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