The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 145

[Anno_Domini]

Anywho....guise, guise, guise....

Was there really a Johnny Blake in the comics? I never knew that until last night when someone pointed that out.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Yeah the Joker stole his lunchbox or something

 

[Anno_Domini]

Goddamn, THAT should've been the reason Blake became a cop in TDKR...Joker stole his lunchbox eight years earlier during TDK's events

 

[ThePhantasm]

Actually it was his report card:

That Joker is evil

 

[ThePhantasm]

Lol. Opinions can't be wrong, but okay

Like I said earlier in the thread, this isn't completely true.

My opinion that I prefer Coca Cola to Pepsi can't be wrong. That's a preferential opinion.

If I had the opinion that I could survive in space without a space-suit, that would be wrong. That's an opinion closely united to a truth-claim.

There are such things as opinions that don't align with reality.

 

[The_Raganork]

Like I said earlier in the thread, this isn't completely true.

My opinion that I prefer Coca Cola to Pepsi can't be wrong. That's a preferential opinion.

If I had the opinion that I could survive in space without a space-suit, that would be wrong. That's an opinion closely united to a truth-claim.

There are such things as opinions that don't align with reality.

this argument was my whole summer of '12 on here

 

[Anno_Domini]

Actually it was his report card:

That Joker is evil

Well, then Joker should have taken his report card....and that set up events that messed up Blake's life such as his mother being disappointed and leaving her house and that's how she ended up being in a car accident, lol.

Like I said earlier in the thread, this isn't completely true.

My opinion that I prefer Coca Cola to Pepsi can't be wrong. That's a preferential opinion.

If I had the opinion that I could survive in space without a space-suit, that would be wrong. That's an opinion closely united to a truth-claim.

There are such things as opinions that don't align with reality.

You have a point, okay, I'll give you that, BUT...my opinion of what we've been talking about does align to reality...nothing is truly set in stone that Batman did quit that night Dent died, only that he vanished and there were no confirmed sightings. I'm now finished with this topic though, haha.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Well, then Joker should have taken his report card....and that set up events that messed up Blake's life such as his mother being disappointed and leaving her house and that's how she ended up being in a car accident, lol.

There's something weird about that Johnny Blake kid anyways.

I mean, who walks out of school with their Math textbook attached to a leather strap and slung over their shoulder?

this argument was my whole summer of '12 on here

Yeah, I feel like I run into this argument all the time. I dislike when its just used defiantly as a last stand sort of defense for a view when all other arguments have been disproven.

On the flipside, to be fair there are lots of people on these boards who treat their preferential opinions like facts, so I understand why people are so defensive about it.

 

[The_Raganork]

Yeah, I feel like I run into this argument all the time. I dislike when its just used defiantly as a last stand sort of defense for a view when all other arguments have been disproven.

On the flipside, to be fair there are lots of people on these boards who treat their preferential opinions like facts, so I understand why people are so defensive about it.

...and with even more fairness. It's hard to express that your opinion is not fact over the internet. We're here to discuss and that often means defending one's ideas too. So many times on here with defending an idea myself or someone else will be seen as trying to present the opinion as fact when in actuality it's only to further refine the idea against the points recently made.

There's a lot of subtlety that can be missed on a forum with the constant emoticon to back it up.


But some people most certainly believe that what they say is gospel simply because they believe it.

 

[Tequilla]

Like I said earlier in the thread, this isn't completely true.


If I had the opinion that I could survive in space without a space-suit, that would be wrong. That's an opinion closely united to a truth-claim.

There are such things as opinions that don't align with reality.

Going by wiki , maybe that's not an opinion. Saying the earth is a square isn't an opinion.

In general, an opinion is a belief about matters commonly considered to be subjective, i.e. it is based on that which is less than absolutely certain, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion


Opinion are usually reserved for subjective matters , or interpretation of facts.

Like the moderator said in another thread

OPINIONS.....are neither right or wrong...so they can't be a mistake....they are opinions.

 

[ThePhantasm]

...and with even more fairness. It's hard to express that your opinion is not fact over the internet. We're here to discuss and that often means defending one's ideas too. So many times on here with defending an idea myself or someone else will be seen as trying to present the opinion as fact when in actuality it's only to further refine the idea against the points recently made.

Exactly. I've had many a discussion on SHH where people just randomly respond: "Well that's just your opinion." And I always think to myself: "Well... duh? Isn't that obvious?" I mean, do I have to put a disclaimer with every post saying "this is my opinion"?

 

[ThePhantasm]

Going by wiki , maybe that's not an opinion. Saying the earth is a square isn't an opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion

Opinion are usually reserved for subjective matters , or interpretation of facts.

While we are selectively quoting wikipedia, here is another tidbit from that article that might interest you:

"Opinions rarely change without new arguments being presented. It can be reasoned that one opinion is better supported by the facts than another by analyzing the supporting arguments."

Interpretations of facts can be wrong. The fact that opinions are subjective doesn't mean they are utterly divided from objective facts. There's a delicate relationship there you have to give an account of.

One can argue that someone's opinion coheres with facts, or that it doesn't. That Iron Man 3 is better than The Amazing Spider-Man isn't a fact, that's a subjective preference. If I have the opinion that I'm a unicorn, that opinion doesn't cohere with reality. Its a bad opinion, even if it is my "subjective interpretation" of my life.

C. Lee is right in the sense that I stated above - preferential opinions are not right or wrong. Everyone is welcome to the free expression of their opinions. The mods are right to enforce this.

 

[Tequilla]

It's not selective quoting. I actually understand perfectly what you're saying and agree. Maybe those statements don't fall under an opinion.

 

[ThePhantasm]

It's not selective quoting. I actually understand perfectly what you're saying and agree. Maybe those statements don't fall under an opinion.

Maybe not.

Personally, I think they do because they are still subjective claims about reality. I hesitate to cordon off the definition of "opinion" so drastically that the sphere of "facts" has nothing to do with "opinions" whatsoever. We have to be careful about false dualisms. Subjectivity isn't free floating, it is anchored via interpretation in a relationship with the objective reality.

Even if you limit "opinion" to a subjective interpretation that can never be "right" or "wrong," it simply means you have a ton of people on SHH claiming that certain things are "opinions" when they really aren't.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Anywho... Batman and stuff. Thangs.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Exactly. I've had many a discussion on SHH where people just randomly respond: "Well that's just your opinion." And I always think to myself: "Well... duh? Isn't that obvious?" I mean, do I have to put a disclaimer with every post saying "this is my opinion"?

This is why I use IMO whenever (well, I try to at least) there's any chance of something being remotely unclear in a post I make.

 

[JackWhite]

Anywho... Batman and stuff. Thangs.

OK, so which weapon was cooler?



or

 

[ThePhantasm]

I thought the electromagnetic gun was pretty cool, but was saddened at how quickly it was destroyed. The first time I watched TDKR I was so ticked at that rookie cop.

I wanted to see more of it, but instead it was trashed almost immediately.

 

[Travesty]

EMP gun was really cool. I hated the sticky bomb shooter thingy.

 

[JackWhite]

I thought the electromagnetic gun was pretty cool, but was saddened at how quickly it was destroyed. The first time I watched TDKR I was so ticked at that rookie cop.

I wanted to see more of it, but instead it was trashed almost immediately.

lol yeah. I love the look Batman gives that cop too. Real great moment that was.

 

[Snow Queen]

lol yeah. I love the look Batman gives that cop too. Real great moment that was.

That was great. His eyes just seemed to say "Oh come on, that was my new toy."

 

[BatmanBeyond]

I think I preferred the gun that fired explosive goo better myself. It was much more efficiently used than the second contraption, which was pretty hit and miss in TDKR. I mean, it's pretty effectively used when Batman returns, it's used to great effect by Bruce with the photographers, but it's useless when he attempts to use it against Bane.

Edit: Heh, disregarded the fact that we were talking about the electromagnetic gun solely. Oh well.

 

[The Joker]

The little sticky bomb gun with the timers on them was much cooler. He did cooler things with it.

 

[Shikamaru]

Anyone else here that comes to this thread just to cool off and temporarily get away from all the big debates and arguments taking place on this site? Or is it just me? I find that a bit ironic with this being the official TDKR discussion thread.

 

[BatLobster]

Anyone else here that comes to this thread just to cool off and temporarily get away from all the big debates and arguments taking place on this site? Or is it just me? I find that a bit ironic with this being the official TDKR discussion thread.

Lol, the very definition of irony. But yeah, I know what you mean. It seems like every geek-movie that gets released these days ends up being extremely divisive. I hope Man o' Steel can break that trend a bit (though there will be haters, of course, it's inevitable).

Oh, and I'll go with the sticky bomb gun just because I thought it was so cool how it unfolded and snapped together.

Still, even though Batman only uses the EMP gun once in the film, that first reveal shot of him firing it is so badass.