The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 148

[C. Lee]

It's not opinion, it's fact. Of course you can believe what you want but he retired because of Dent's death and the Dent Act. It had zero to do with Rachel.

While he was retired did he choose to live through that period in depression because of Rachel? Yes. But it had nothing to do with his retirement. Sorry but the film tells us this and so do the writers.

Immediately after the death of Rachel? No, he continued on as Batman and took down the Joker and went after Two-Face. If Two-Face hadn't snapped in trying to kill Gordons family + dying then im pretty sure he would still be Batman. It had NOTHING to do with Rachel.

It's not "some will try to say", it says in the film that he became a shut in once the reactor failed mid-way through his retirement as the Batman. Again, facts.

Ruh Ro Raggy....I used the word "immediately" wrong !!!!!!!

If you notice...I said that he hunted down Dent because he was enraged that Rachael had died....so I obviously know that he didn't really IMMEDIATELY at that precise moment quit....I used the term IMMEDIATELY in a slang way of saying as soon as he got his revenge for the death of Rachael and saved Gordon's family, he quit IMMEDIATELY after doing that. He no longer went out as Batman after the things that arose because of Rachaels death were over with.

Also....you are saying that Bruce lived in depression for 8 years after Rachaels death....what Batman ever did that?

His parents die...I WILL DRESS UP AND TERRORIZE ALL CRIMINALS!!!!!!
His girl who is a friend who he has never kissed or dated and is engaged to some other man dies....i'm depressed, i'll just sit here in my giant empty mansion and pout

 

[Shikamaru]

Of course he doesn't know for sure that there's no "bigger bad" out there. But then again how does Luke know for sure that The Emperor wasn't a clone and there's not another Death Star under construction somewhere? (Guess we'll find out in 2015 ).

But really, even if there was another al Ghul/terrorist leader out there, I'm not sure what they'd want with a washed up Bruce in his 40s. Ra's tracked him down because he was young, driven and angry and "ideally placed" for his cause.

I mean, we can imagine whatever we want. Some people like to imagine that Blake falls off the rising platform and dies or that he dies on his first night out. Sure, it's extreme- but that's their prerogative.

My point is that it is foolish for him to assume no one will ever find him if he walks around in public with not even a different hairstyle. You're also forgetting one thing: Bruce has a certain level of paranoia, as milost just talked about a few posts back. Maybe it's not as strong as in comic book Batman, but it is strong enough to make him wear a fake wig or glasses or something like that. Bruce would make sure there was no second Death Star . You and I wouldn't because we're not that paranoid (at least I'm not; I can't comment on you).

 

[JackWhite]

It's alright, don't cry. Just pretend Batman rides off into the sunset, western style in The Dark Knight and that the events of TDKR never happened.

lol. But we wouldn't have closure!

 

[milost]

But really, even if there was another al Ghul/terrorist leader out there, I'm not sure what they'd want with a washed up Bruce in his 40s. Ra's tracked him down because he was young, driven and angry and "ideally placed" for his cause.

I mean, we can imagine whatever we want. Some people like to imagine that Blake falls off the rising platform and dies or that he dies on his first night out. Sure, it's extreme- but that's their prerogative.

LoS could still be out there and he left the mantle of the Bat to an average cop who would have gotten killed by Mercs in a tight situation if Batman hadn't been able to scene jump across the city and save him (Batman saved Gordon milliseconds before). Sure, sure, "training is nothing, the will is everything", but we know that's semi BS and inspirational talk. The reason Batman can do the things he does is because of his vast wealth, training and will.

Blake wasn't trained by LoS and he sure as hell wasn't trained by Batman. Unless Bruce Wayne concocted a training video on Batcomputer like this,


http://youtu.be/_652jZCZRjk


[YT]_652jZCZRjk[/YT]










"Suit me up fellow orphan whom I knew by a feeling in my bones."



For a film that was praised for being a "thinking man's movie", as soon as you think about TDKR is when it all falls apart.

 

[C. Lee]

I mean, we can imagine whatever we want. Some people like to imagine that Blake falls off the rising platform and dies or that he dies on his first night out. Sure, it's extreme- but that's their prerogative.

I imagine the third movie didn't happen.

 

[ThePhantasm]

plus there are the workers who know that Bruce reprogrammed the autopilot on The Bat... which Batman was flying... AND THEY KNOW BECAUSE HE LEFT HIS NAME ID ON THE SOFTWARE PATCH.

 

[ThePhantasm]

lol. But we wouldn't have closure!

I don't get closure in Mask of the Phantasm and I love that movie just fine.

 

[milost]

lol. But we wouldn't have closure!

Batman riding off into the sunset to whatever end (or beginning) we, the audience can fantasize about this "Dark Knight" > Bruce chilling at a cafe as a "retired vacationer" that got a statue in his honor while John Blake takes his first steps into becoming another Brian Douglas.


Decisions decisions!

 

[ThePhantasm]

Batman riding off into the sunset to whatever end (or beginning) we, the audience can fantasize about this "Dark Knight" > Bruce chilling at a cafe as a retired vacationer while John Blake takes his first steps into becoming another Brian Douglas.

lol

 

[Shikamaru]

lol. But we wouldn't have closure!

All 3 films had endings that could be viewed as closures. Even if BB and TDK never got any sequels, their respective endings would have been satisfying enough IMO. Heck, I would argue the endings to BB/TDK were more satisfying as "The End" than TDKR's ending was. lol

That's one of the things I loved about the Nolan films the most. It is the closest superhero franchise to setting up a Star Wars-like structure where each film has a great balance between the episodic formula and the ongoing-continuity formula. Every other franchise either left very little to nothing for the sequels or left too much for the sequels that the film at hand suffered.

 

[BatLobster]

My point is that it is foolish for him to assume no one will ever find him if he walks around in public with not even a different hairstyle. You're also forgetting one thing: Bruce has a certain level of paranoia, as milost just talked about a few posts back. Maybe it's not as strong as in comic book Batman, but it is strong enough to make him wear a fake wig or glasses or something like that. Bruce would make sure there was no second Death Star . You and I wouldn't because we're not that paranoid (at least I'm not; I can't comment on you).

You're right about Bruce's paranoia. I suppose I'm just willing to suspend disbelief for that one moment because obviously, if he had tracked down Alfred and knew he was in Florence (I don't believe that he literally sat at the same table for months, that's insane), he'd want to make sure Alfred could recognize him, and then presumably never go back there again.

So yeah, he could've been wearing a subtle disguise if you really wanna get down to it, but I think that might've just distracted from the emotion of the scene and came off as goofy.

P.S. You guys are going harsher than usual, I must say. Did you all make resolutions to try even harder to bash the movie this year?

 

[milost]

plus there are the workers who know that Bruce reprogrammed the autopilot on The Bat... which Batman was flying... AND THEY KNOW BECAUSE HE LEFT HIS NAME ID ON THE SOFTWARE PATCH.

Yes, yes, let the thought flow through you.

I'm telling you. The more you think about it, the more it all falls apart.

lol

Don't laugh.

Poor Brian Douglass was also a cop and just as fond as Batman as Blake was. Remember that sincere "we're trying to help" and Batman's mean rebuttal with the hockey pads insult? Look what happened to that guy, he got abducted and gutted in a meat factory by the Joker. He was so inspired he even had a pretty accurate replica of the Batman Begins cowl and Bats still put him down.

Blake is gonna die the same way. Cops in batsuits don't last very long. Hell, all douglass had to do was tell Batman that he was an orphan and I'm sure he would have been lent all of the Batman gear . . . and still die!

 

[JackWhite]

I have to say it's nice that the debates are pretty respectful during this go 'round.

 

[ThePhantasm]

P.S. You guys are going harsher than usual, I must say. Did you all make resolutions to try even harder to bash the movie this year?

Personally my opinion of the film has worsened lately. I recently watched through the trilogy over the span of three days and TDKR stuck out like a sore thumb to me.

Before I was critical, but now it just seems to clash with the other two movies.

 

[BatLobster]

plus there are the workers who know that Bruce reprogrammed the autopilot on The Bat... which Batman was flying... AND THEY KNOW BECAUSE HE LEFT HIS NAME ID ON THE SOFTWARE PATCH.

Pretty sure any engineers working in Fox' applied sciences department had to be in on the truth too. They would've also known about the Tumblers that were all consolidated there.

I assume Fox made sure they were paid well.

 

[shauner111]

Ruh Ro Raggy....I used the word "immediately" wrong !!!!!!!

If you notice...I said that he hunted down Dent because he was enraged that Rachael had died....so I obviously know that he didn't really IMMEDIATELY at that precise moment quit....I used the term IMMEDIATELY in a slang way of saying as soon as he got his revenge for the death of Rachael and saved Gordon's family, he quit IMMEDIATELY after doing that. He no longer went out as Batman after the things that arose because of Rachaels death were over with.

Also....you are saying that Bruce lived in depression for 8 years after Rachaels death....what Batman ever did that?

His parents die...I WILL DRESS UP AND TERRORIZE ALL CRIMINALS!!!!!!
His girl who is a friend who he has never kissed or dated and is engaged to some other man dies....i'm depressed, i'll just sit here in my giant empty mansion and pout

The universe of these movies is the only one that counts here. So within this universe, he was depressed for a long time. Since his parents were murdered. He became even more depressed when Rachel died. Even if they were never destined to be together, he still loved her. Oh btw they did kiss .

He was badly depressed for 3 years where he spent his time locked up in Wayne Manor. But probably still depressed throughout the 8 years. He's always been an unhealthy individual mentally. But Rachel's death still has nothing to do with his retirement though. It had to do with crime.

This Batman was also never shown as the type that goes after regular muggers on his free-time. Even if he did offscreen. There's no proof. He was strictly going after the mob, big cats, and using that reputation to scare off the little timers. Because in this universe (again, the only one that's relevant in this context) he felt that squashing organized crime would change things for the cops and normal citizens for them to stand up. It was not an eternal battle. Nolan even said it was meant to be a 5 year plan. It's not like the comics. If it wasn't for the great depression, the economy going downhill, the league of shadows, the mob, then regular people wouldn't be so deperate like Joe Chill. So Batman was targeting the big dogs. When they covered up Two-Face's actions and let Gordon handle the rest of the mobsters with their drugs & corruption..Batman hung up his cape. Spending time alone in the dark too much is what led Bruce to dwelling on Rachel and those tragedies. Which is where arrive in TDKR.

 

[C. Lee]

P.S. You guys are going harsher than usual, I must say. Did you all make resolutions to try even harder to bash the movie this year?

Nope. That's why I rarely post in here....if I express my opinion, and my opinion is NOT that TDKR is god's gift to mankind....then I am only here to bash it.

I was discussing and explaining why I find fault with it. But as usual...that is not allowed.

So goodbye.

 

[HighFivingMF]

I still want to know if anyone just so happened to be:

1) In that particular diner.
2) Happened to stare at the stranger at the table.
3) Knew who Bruce Wayne was.
4) Knew what Bruce Wayne looked like.
5) Gave a ****.

What would they do? He used a clean slate, so his identity was wiped clear. One would assume that he and Selina have new IDs now and that their prints wouldn't be on file even if someone were to manage to check.

 

[Shikamaru]

I don't get closure in Mask of the Phantasm and I love that movie just fine.

My favorite Batman film of all time!

You're right about Bruce's paranoia. I suppose I'm just willing to suspend disbelief for that one moment because obviously, if he had tracked down Alfred and knew he was in Florence (I don't believe that he literally sat at the same table for months, that's insane), he'd want to make sure Alfred could recognize him, and then presumably never go back there again.

So yeah, he could've been wearing a subtle disguise if you really wanna get down to it, but I think that might've just distracted from the emotion of the scene and came off as goofy.

P.S. You guys are going harsher than usual, I must say. Did you all make resolutions to try even harder to bash the movie this year?

Fair enough. I can understand your POV.

 

[shauner111]

Personally my opinion of the film has worsened lately. I recently watched through the trilogy over the span of three days and TDKR stuck out like a sore thumb to me.

Before I was critical, but now it just seems to clash with the other two movies.

In my experience, it enhances it.

 

[milost]

I still want to know if anyone just so happened to be:

1) In that particular diner.
2) Happened to stare at the stranger at the table.
3) Knew who Bruce Wayne was.
4) Knew what Bruce Wayne looked like.
5) Gave a ****.

What would they do?

Go up and take a selfie with him. Post it on twitter/facebook and show the world that he's still alive and faked his death/disappearance for a third time.

 

[Shikamaru]

Blake wasn't trained by LoS and he sure as hell wasn't trained by Batman. Unless Bruce Wayne concocted a training video on Batcomputer like this,


http://youtu.be/_652jZCZRjk


[YT]_652jZCZRjk[/YT]

Oh God, WHY did you have to go there? I can't un-imagine that now.

 

[milost]

Barbara rises on the platform too. SYMBOLISM.


That's the only logical way Blake is fitting in that TDK suit too (which was form fitting for Wayne). Suit me up indeed.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Go up and take a selfie with him. Post it on twitter/facebook and show the world that he's still alive and faked his death/disappearance for a third time.

Would he just sit there shouting "NOOOOOO!" while the person set up the picture, typed a caption, then uploaded it?

 

[ThePhantasm]

I still want to know if anyone just so happened to be:

1) In that particular diner.
2) Happened to stare at the stranger at the table.
3) Knew who Bruce Wayne was.
4) Knew what Bruce Wayne looked like.
5) Gave a ****.

What would they do? He used a clean slate, so his identity was wiped clear. One would assume that he and Selina have new IDs now and that their prints wouldn't be on file even if someone were to manage to check.

A yes, a clean slate, which automatically erased every picture of Bruce Wayne in every printed newspaper and tabloid in existence... destroyed paper records... and erased people's memories like that red flashy stick in MiB.