The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

Yeah, there is a cool nod at the end regarding Penguin

Penguin would've been an excellent addition to the Nolanverse as well.

When fans were speculating on who the villain for the sequel was going to be, a vocal minority wanted the villain to be Black Mask because the mob was such a big part of the previous two movies but the Penguin could've worked just as well if not better.
 
For me ideally Two Face would have been the ideal candidate for the third movie. I know, I know, finishing his arc is part of what made TDK so great but still I think I could have stood to have seen a movie that featured Eckhart's Two Face more prominently. What had me curious about a Nolanized Riddler is that I would have found it interesting on how he could make that character his own and not just a joker-lite, type of villain. I still don't like the like private investigator,fbi, etv versions I've heard and still think some sort of John Doe from Se7en or Keyser Soze idea would have worked.
The Penguin was referenced in the Gotham Times newspapers that were handed out in the viral campaign as were the Riddler and Robin.
 
But how would it have worked? Unless there's a story there and a fresh idea, it just sounds like you might be trying to rehash Se7en in the form of a superhero movie. And honestly, i think TDK payed homage to Se7en enough really.
 
Penguin would've been an excellent addition to the Nolanverse as well.

When fans were speculating on who the villain for the sequel was going to be, a vocal minority wanted the villain to be Black Mask because the mob was such a big part of the previous two movies but the Penguin could've worked just as well if not better.

If Gotham can make Penguin and Riddler work, surely Nolan could have made them work.
 
Not gonna lie, part of me wishes that Penguin had Dagget's role in TDKR. Oswald Cobblepot would've been the guy who wanted Wayne Enterprises and hired Bane to bankrupt Bruce.

Probably not a good idea, but part of me still wishes it happened.
 
Nice. Or Falcone. It's not like they tapped into who his family was, they didn't connect Selina to Carmine either. Tom Wilkinson could have played him still, but just with a different way of speaking and slightly different wardrobe. The Daggett idea is cool though. But god do i love Ben Mendelsohn.

Also, who remembers the rumors of Stryver being Black Mask.
 
I remember rumours of Bane's main henchmen dude being Deadshot because he holds a sniper rifle in one scene. :dry:

Never heard of this novelization you guys are talking about, but my interest is certainly piqued.
 
But how would it have worked? Unless there's a story there and a fresh idea, it just sounds like you might be trying to rehash Se7en in the form of a superhero movie. And honestly, i think TDK payed homage to Se7en enough really.

I didn't find TDK to be as much of an homage to Se7en as I did it to be of Heat. Still, I guess that's my point. I'd be curious to see how Nolan would make Riddler work and make him interesting. Again his reinterpretations of these characters really made these films for me. Love the idea of Daggett being Penguin instead. I think I remember they were rumouring Hardy was going to be Killer Croc because it was being filmed in Louisiana. Ha, miss all that speculation that went with these films. That was half the fun.
 
Not gonna lie, part of me wishes that Penguin had Dagget's role in TDKR. Oswald Cobblepot would've been the guy who wanted Wayne Enterprises and hired Bane to bankrupt Bruce.

Probably not a good idea, but part of me still wishes it happened.

That would've been an interesting course of action for a movie where the Penguin was the main villain.
 
Great discussion guys. I wrote this short story idea right just before The Dark Knight was released. Replace Kate with Anne and I think you have a solid movie.

Roman Sionis - Black Mask

In the comics, Roman Sionis was born into one of Gotham’s wealthiest families, the owners of Janus Cosmetics. After the death of his parents, Sionis inherited his family’s business and then proceeded to run it into the ground. He was eventually bailed out when Bruce Wayne bought his company, but feeling disgraced, Sionis became Black Mask and attempted to murder several Wayne Enterprises employees.

Combining a mob boss and a "freak" would create the escalation we need for the third chapter in Chris Nolan's crime epic storyline.

After the "accidental" death of his parents, Roman Sionis inherits everything and decides to use his resources to take control of the two things he desires most, Wayne Enterprises and Gotham City. Set one year after the events in The Dark Knight, Sionis would serve as the film's central villain. Using a dual identity much the way Bruce Wayne does, Sionis appears to be the squeaky clean industrialist who rivals Lucius Fox for Wayne Enterprises, only secretly to be known as Black Mask, a murdering sadist who controls the largest gang of organized crime in the history of Gotham.

In our opinion, Matthew Goode (The Lookout) is the one and only choice here. Goode was recently cast as Adrian Veidt in the upcoming film "Watchmen". Anyone who's read the graphic novel knows Goode must be handsome and charismatic on the surface, while secretly counseling his true nature.

Jonathan Crane - Scarecrow

Cillian Murphy made the Scarecrow terrifying on screen and if given a purpose he could definitely do it again.

Since Black Mask needs total obedience from his society of goons employing Crane makes sense. However, they would never be full partners, Black Mask would undoubtedly view someone like Crane as a subordinate.

Jonathan Crane has made some new "friends" since the last time we saw him. With Sionis funding his every experiment, Crane has plenty of time to develop and perfect his "fear" toxin. Adding various chemicals and mind altering drugs, Crane creates something truly terrifying: the ability to control his victims.

Selina Kyle - Catwoman

After success as Catwoman made her wealthy, Selina Kyle entered Gotham's social elite. Dining and dancing with the same people from whom she was stealing, Selina also managed to date billionaire Bruce Wayne.

Since the third film desperately needs a fresh female lead and a rogue element, Catwoman would fit in perfectly.

Being Selina Kyle means living a double life as well. She's a member of high society by day and a professional thief by night. Knowing that Black Mask is really Roman Sionis, Catwoman seeks vengeance for the violent murder of her sister by striking at Sionis from a distance and in public, which makes her an outlaw the same as Batman.

Our choice is British actress Kate Beckinsale (Pearl Harbor, The Aviator). With a wide variety of assets, Beckinsale is perfect to play the sexy and seductive Selina.

Oswald Cobblepot - The Penguin

Due to his appearance and a fascination with birds, Oswald Cobblepot has been called "Penguin" all his life. But what began as a malicious nickname has become one of the most feared names in the criminal underworld.

Even though The Penguin made a name for himself in the comics, he's always been a very obscure character. In order to adapt him to a serious crime story most all of his campy behavior needs to be omitted.

To the public, Oswald wouldn't be much more than a flashy nightclub owner, but to other "powers" in Gotham, he would serve as a weapons dealer and information broker. Supplying guns and ammunition to The False Face Society, while selling details about their leader to Catwoman and the Gotham police, Cobblepot plans to play all sides against each other to gain control of the criminal underworld.

Once again Our choice is Philip Seymour Hoffman (Red Dragon, Almost Famous). Hoffman had an Oscar win for his performance in "Capote". He also starred as Owen Davian, a merciless arms dealer, in "Mission: Impossible 3".

Sandra Wu-San - Lady Shiva

Traveling the globe, Lady Shiva has devoted her life to the perfection in the martial arts. She's also a gun-for-hire, who specializes in bare-handed kills.

According to several writers, Lady Shiva would win eight out of ten fights against Batman, and introducing a character like her would give a much greater challenge to our hero.

When The League of Shadows failed in Gotham, Sandra Wu-San found a new way to bring justice to the world, she becomes Lady Shiva. As a high priced assassin for criminal targets, Shiva is hired in secret by an unknown party to travel west and eliminate the murdering vigilante known as The Batman.

Our casting choice is Hawaiian-born actress Maggie Q (MI: 3). Q's performance in "Live Free or Die Hard" proved that she can be cold and emotionless while still remaining stunning beautiful. She also has the martial arts background needed for the part.

The Conclusion

The False Face Society now out numbers the police and the National Guard. Black Mask has abducted several key figures in the community including the mayor, the new district attorney, Commissioner Jim Gordon and Wayne Enterprises executive Lucius Fox.

With little time remaining and an assassin waiting for him to make a mistake, Batman must free Catwoman from police custody and use the information she has to find Black Mask. But will there be enough time to find an antidote to the new fear toxin and save all the hostages before The False Face Society takes over the entire city?
 
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Haha...well first pick would have been a returning Joker obviously or even Two Face. Outside of them, I mean I hate to disappoint you but probably the Riddler. I always enjoyed how John Doe was a "riddleresque' type character and how they had his presence throughout the film, without really seeing him until the end. I hated a lot of the ideas a lot of the hypsters would post on how the Riddler could be an ex FBI agent or something that would track Batman down. To be honest, I was as much fascinated with the Trilogy stories as I was the reinventing or Nolanizing of the characters on screen. How would Nolan reinterpret Penguin, Riddler, Mr. Freeze, and on and on. I found the designs, costuming and art direction just really fascinated me. Again, Bane was and has always been my LEAST favourite Batman villain and oddly enough Doomsday is my LEAST favourite Superman villain. But as a credit to Nolan, he just really made it work for me (can't say the same for Snyder's doomsday). Bane's scenes are perhaps my favourite parts of TDKR and I thought Hardy was an excellent choice and did an amazing job.
I was curious to see a Nolanized Catwoman as Pfieffer was perhaps my favourite portrayed baddie from the older films. Catwoman was probably the only character that I didn't feel was improved upon. Although I think Anne had a great take on the character, something was just missing for me. More screen time? The costuming? I'm not sure.
Ha, that was probably a long winded answer but honestly I was pretty well up for any villain except for Bane and in the end I thought Nolan/Hardy really won me over.



Idk that I would say any of the villains, or Batman, was improved upon from the comics. But I loved seeing the realistic reinterpretations. I look at it like a different interpretation of the Batman mythos. An idea of Batman in the real world. Which is what it was, and a great idea. That's why I always thought people were crazy when they complained that the Bale Batman wasn't going to be a part of the DC Extended Universe. He's not supposed to be. It's it's own standalone story, not an adaptation of the Batman from the comics (like Affleck's is).

I think Bane/Knightfall/No Man's Land was the best fit for the Nolan Bruce/Batman character's story arc, as well as the arc of Batman's relationship to Gotham City. I don't think there was a better idea, within the confines of this particular interpretation (a Batman who is not obsessed and who is much more fallible than the comic version, a "regular guy" who can't do all this for long and just wants to leave Gotham a better place, a Batman with an end game).

However, I'd have loved a film in between TDK and TDKR, featuring most likely The Riddler, somebody who challenges Batman intellectually, and we get to see the World's Greatest Detective aspect of the character. A game of wits, the Moriarty to Batman's Sherlock Holmes. And, yeah, Leonardo DiCaprio would've made a great Riddler
 
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But so far Bale's Batman has been more of an adaptation of the comics than Affleck's. From his intellect to his compassion.
 
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I'd have loved a film in between TDK and TDKR, featuring most likely The Riddler, somebody who challenges Batman intellectually, and we get to see the World's Greatest Detective aspect of the character. A game of wits, the Moriarty to Batman's Sherlock Holmes. And, yeah, Leonardo DiCaprio would've made a great Riddler

Absent the ending of TDK, the Riddler might have been interesting in being motivated to and even managing to succeed in ruining Batman's reputation.
 
But so far Bale's Batman has been more of an adaptation of the comics than Affleck's. From his intellect to his compassion.



Even still, Bale's Batman is far removed from the source material. Like Benedict Cumberbatch's Sherlock compared to the book version. A reimagining, based on the source material. Not saying that's a bad thing. I love it. And of course, I could see how you could argue Batfleck as the same thing. But to me, it's just a more faithful adaptation because he looks just like him and lives in a greater DC universe. But fair point, I won't argue that
 
Absent the ending of TDK, the Riddler might have been interesting in being motivated to and even managing to succeed in ruining Batman's reputation.


Right, or even still using that ending and just continuing that storyline could have made a compelling story. Batman having to stop the Riddler while also being a fugitive, and Riddler using that to his advantage. Then, the ending could have Batman retiring until Rises.


I really thoroughly enjoyed Scott Snyder's Riddler interpretation in Zero Year, btw. That's the kinda Riddler I like to see. Haven't yet read Earth One book 2 yet, but Zero Year is probably my favorite Riddler story. I love the idea of Batman having to match wits with a genius like that
 
No he's not.

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Even still, Bale's Batman is far removed from the source material.

Which era are you looking at? Like others have said, Bale is the closest to the source material that we've ever gotten in live action.
 
Quoted for truth. Bale's arguably the closest we've ever gotten to the source material in live-action.

This!

I'd love for an all out Arkham Batman on screen..
but for now, Bale will have to do..slowness and all.

He has the morals, the playboy persona bruce, and the strategic ninja thinking.

Only think missing is the voice..but the one in Begins is passable.
 
I have to say, One of the most eye-rolling criticisms of Rises that I've seen brought up by fans is that the League of Shadows should have no longer have a problem with Gotham because theres no more organized crime even though Begins made it very clear that was never the organizations main intention.
 

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