The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

[Dede]

Yup, very well said. I had seen Batman Begins with my mother and brother back in 2005 and that ending had me ACHING for the next film haha. The only thing that softened the wait was my huge hype for Spider-Man 3, but TDK hype train was in full effect by the time that film was out.

When TDK released, i was with a friend, his father and his uncle. After the movie was over, I remember thinking that I wouldn't be able to sleep that night. I was just far too hyped and blown away by what I had just seen. haha i remember my brother went and saw it, though i didn't know it, but his hair was messed up when he got home and I jokingly said "you saw TDK, huh?" It really was just a surreal experience. I actually went and saw TDK the other night at my local cinema for the first time since 2008, and there was a group of pre teens or very early teens sitting in front of me with their guardian. it was obvious none of them had seen the film and they were literally on the edge of their seat the whole time, even reacting to the pencil trick. at the end, of course they all gave it a round of applause.

Often times with movies, you either enjoy them or dont, or youll eventually rewatch it again on tv or something. with TDK, it was different for me. It's a movie ive rewatched constantly, and if I wasn't watching it, I was looking up impressions on youtube back in the day, or something like the Joker Blogs, which was a set of fan movies depicting TDK Joker in arkham. To this day, I never tire of the movie. I'm sure people are sick of TDK being held up to such a high standard, but it truly deserves it. It's the only comic book movie that I think truly deserves to be nominated and win best picture (something im still mad about today!) And it's not just me either, but my friends and even my parents. My mother still talks about it whenever i bring up the Joker film, and my friends always say "yeah its gonna be good, but nothing will ever beat TDK". That's a testament to what an incredible film it is, and that even after 12 years, the praise has not gone away, but in fact continues to increase.

We've had so many comic book films since then, and the MCU has been so massive in pop culture. Going to conventions and seeing so many people love these characters never gets old for me. and I think what the MCU has accomplished is amazing, but there's a part of me that has soured on those movies not because theyre bad by any means, but there's a pulse and soul that I feel was sort of lost during the "shared universe phase" and my longing for self contained stories to return has only increased. FIlms Like Logan and Joker, which is unlike anything the genre has seen. That's why I love what DC has been doing since 2018. focusing on one story rather than connecting gives each film an identity and it's gonna allow someone like Matt Reeves to full realize his vision of Batman over the course of 3 movies and an HBO tv show. It's something I've missed as I've gotten tired of the shared universe stuff a long time ago.

Absolutely agree with your last paragraph. I keep hoping dc Does more elseworld stuff live action

 

[The Joker]

That section consistently has some of the worst takes on Batman.

And unless its Burton, prepare for any live action film version of Batman to get a bunch of slander, hot takes, nitpicks, and lame jokes.

Burton really? His version is one of the easiest to slander.

 

[Dede]

Burton really? His version is one of the easiest to slander.

Well it’s either burton or Schumacher so they probably defend burton more

 

[The Batman]

Burton really? His version is one of the easiest to slander.

I've never seen Burton's films get straight up slandered in those parts. Once in a while, you might get one person who says something negative about them, but they never get the same level of flak as, say, Nolan or Snyder.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I've never seen Burton's films get straight up slandered in those parts. Once in a while, you might get one person who says something negative about them, but they never get the same level of flak as, say, Nolan or Snyder.

I've noticed this as well. It seems to be popular now to degrade the Nolan films when talking future Batman movies. I say that's just a testament to how damn good they are.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, the same exact thing happened when things were gearing up for BvS. Actually it was far, far worse then if we're being honest IMO. I would hope the quality dip of BvS/JL was a reminder to some fans of how good we had it. One difference now is I think the hardcore Snyder fanbase were/are far more chest-thumping and aggressive. So far I think the Reeves "fanbase", or at least people who are on board for The Batman so far, seem to be more thoughtful types of fans and less bro-ish (not saying ALL Snyder fans were this way, but his movies have attracted by the far the most childish cult).

And to be fair, after Batman Begins came out there was a lot of Burton-bashing as I recall hence the "Burtonite" and "Nolanite" labels at the time. And after Batman 89 came out, it was really fashionable to bash the 60s series or anything that wasn't grimdark Batman for a while. It's nothing new. Everything comes back around.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Yeah, the same exact thing happened when things were gearing up for BvS. Actually it was far, far worse then if we're being honest IMO. I would hope the quality dip of BvS/JL was a reminder to some fans of how good we had it. One difference now is I think the hardcore Snyder fanbase were/are far more chest-thumping and aggressive. So far I think the Reeves "fanbase", or at least people who are on board for The Batman so far, seem to be more thoughtful types of fans and less bro-ish (not saying ALL Snyder fans were this way, but his movies have attracted by the far the most childish cult).

And to be fair, after Batman Begins came out there was a lot of Burton-bashing as I recall hence the "Burtonite" and "Nolanite" labels at the time. And after Batman 89 came out, it was really fashionable to bash the 60s series or anything that wasn't grimdark Batman for a while. It's nothing new. Everything comes back around.

Exactly. it's interesting how things work like that. so far, it seems The Batman crowd consists of a mix of groups a lot of people excited are ones like us that were there for the Nolan films too. I don't mean to bring up Snyder and when I'm saying this it's not my intention, but people need to understand why such a nose dive in quality after TDKR was depressing for us. Now it seems like we are getting something potentially fantastic again.

also, I'd like to mention that even us Nolanites back in the day sort of had a label on us. I remember some of the more fanatical ones would go after the Raimi Spidey trilogy since that was the top dog prior to TDK. With that being said, I think no group has been as bad as the more radical of the snyder fans.

 

[BatLobster]

Exactly. it's interesting how things work like that. so far, it seems The Batman crowd consists of a mix of groups a lot of people excited are ones like us that were there for the Nolan films too. I don't mean to bring up Snyder and when I'm saying this it's not my intention, but people need to understand why such a nose dive in quality after TDKR was depressing for us. Now it seems like we are getting something potentially fantastic again.

I really don't mean to sound petty here, but no exaggeration-- I once had a discussion with my friend right after TDK came out, and we were basically saying "Yeah we better enjoy this era of greatness while we can, cause eventually it's all going to go down the drain again when they reboot it". And we literally joked about how it's gonna be Ben Affleck playing Batman. I swear to God, wish I was joking. I'm not trashing on Ben (cause I thought he did good with what he was given) the people who genuinely enjoyed BvS, but yeah...for some of us, it was tough to see things go that direction. It left a very bad taste. It's nice to have something to look forward to from a filmmaker that I know won't turn the franchise into CGI-destruction porn, at the very, very least.

also, I'd like to mention that even us Nolanites back in the day sort of had a label on us. I remember some of the more fanatical ones would go after the Raimi Spidey trilogy since that was the top dog prior to TDK. With that being said, I think no group has been as bad as the more radical of the snyder fans.

Yeah, there were definitely some bad ones and the worship was taken far at times. But Nolan is so big at this point that he transcends that, as he's pretty much the biggest mainstream filmmaker now with a huge fanbase. The Snyder thing very much feels like a weird, sad cult. And I think it just shows that the Batman fanbase does have a bit of a toxic element in it. Nolan fans who are into his entire filmography vs. just the ones who were into his Batman movies are kind of separate in my mind. I did think it was cool that Snyder said he was excited for The Batman recently and praised Reeves and Pattinson. Made a few heads explode.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I really don't mean to sound petty here, but no exaggeration-- I once had a discussion with my friend right after TDK came out, and we were basically saying "Yeah we better enjoy this era of greatness while we can, cause eventually it's all going to go down the drain again when they reboot it". And we literally joked about how it's gonna be Ben Affleck playing Batman. I swear to God, wish I was joking. I'm not trashing on Ben (cause I thought he did good with what he was given) the people who genuinely enjoyed BvS, but yeah...for some of us, it was tough to see things go that direction. It left a very bad taste. It's nice to have something to look forward to from a filmmaker that I know won't turn the franchise into CGI-destruction porn, at the very, very least

agreed haha. I actually remember trying not to make sudden judgments when he was cast, but unfortunately my worst fears came true.

when it comes to Matt Reeves, i've been convincing people close to me over the past year or so to give it a chance. when they ask who Reeves is or what hes directed, I mention the planet of the apes movies and they always act surprised and then get excited lol. One of my friends thinks a detective noir tale is the best direction to go now. The costume test with pattinson always gave them a lot of hype too, and it really makes me happy to see.

Yeah, there were definitely some bad ones and the worship was taken far at times. But Nolan is so big at this point that he transcends that, he's pretty much the biggest mainstream filmmaker at this point. The Snyder thing very much feels like a weird cult. And I think it just shows that the Batman fanbase does have a bit of a toxic element in it. Nolan fans who are into his entire filmography vs. just the ones who were into his Batman movies are kind of separate in my mind.

absolutely. It's so awesome how as soon as you hear the name "Nolan", you know you gotta see it. I've seen people who aren't even movie buffs say stuff like "the new Christopher Nolan movie". his name transcends everything and he absolutely deserves it in every sense. Easily the greatest filmmaker of our generation.

 

[BatLobster]

Pretty decent interview with Goyer from Comic Con at Home, for anyone interested. I linked it at where conversation goes to TDKT.

 

[Brother Jack]

Goyer tends to get downplayed in the discussion of TDKT, and I think much of the criticism levied against him is warranted, but I do think he deserves credit for rooting the films in comic book literacy. The films wouldn't have been what they were without him, and though Begins is the weakest script of the three, it's probably the best script Goyer has ever written.

 

[Dede]

Goyer tends to get downplayed in the discussion of TDKT, and I think much of the criticism levied against him is warranted, but I do think he deserves credit for rooting the films in comic book literacy. The films wouldn't have been what they were without him, and though Begins is the weakest script of the three, it's probably the best script Goyer has ever written.

Yep begins has the least memorable dialogue of the trilogy but even if it’s the weakest its still a strong script especially for a cbm. The constant saying Of fear is a little annoying but that’s only a very small gripe. It’s definitely his best overall with man of steel probably second

 

[BatLobster]

Alright, so I didn't want to harp on this too much in The Batman thread, cause the trailer really was absolutely fantastic. But after watching the new trailer like 30 times over the weekend, I decided to throw on the TDK 4k when I went to bed last night just cause I was in a Bat-mood.

And I'm sorry...but I will really miss the classic, filmic look of the Batman franchise. When I watch the trailer for The Batman, it is BEAUTIFULLY and precisely lit and shot, don't get me wrong. Greg Fraser is doing amazing work. But it's beautifully shot in a way that feels somewhat interchangeable with say, a modern prestige TV show with a big budget. And it takes away some of the feel I'm looking for in a Batman film. Just a bit. But enough for me to notice. I just can't help but think that going with a more filmic look would've completely fit the gritty noir direction like a glove. I felt the same way about Rogue One vs. the ST Star Wars films. I love all the actual work Fraser is doing behind the camera and the visuals are great. But I still miss that texture of film and can feel the difference. This is a completely subjective thing, I realize.

I've really been on this film kick lately after upgrading to 4k. And as many 4k enthusiasts will tell you, one of the great joys of the format is when there's a good transfer for an older movie. It feels like as close as you can to get to watching an actual film reel in your home.

 

[Gothamsknight]

TDK is literally one of the most gorgeous 4k films that i own. that, TDKR, Interstellar and Dunkirk.

And Wally Pfisters cinematography is legendary in every sense. 'Nuff said.

 

[BatLobster]

Was feeling a bit nostalgic and doing some Youtube diving.



I remember watching the MTV Awards with my roommate just for this. I clearly remember this whole thing being the moment my hype for the film peaked.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

Was feeling a bit nostalgic and doing some Youtube diving.



I remember watching the MTV Awards with my roommate just for this. I clearly remember this whole thing being the moment my hype for the film peaked.

Damn now I can't stop watching that MTV Awards trailer which is still amazing IMO, especially when that epic score kicks in at 0:35. God watching this video was super nostalgic and the whole thing was handled so well by Warner Bros. I still get chills during that tribute portion where Heath's Joker says " This is how crazy Batman has made Gotham" and you can hear the whole crowd go nuts afterwards.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Was feeling a bit nostalgic and doing some Youtube diving.



I remember watching the MTV Awards with my roommate just for this. I clearly remember this whole thing being the moment my hype for the film peaked.

I remember this! oh man, how I remember this.

 

[The Joker]

I remember that. I distinctly remember Bale getting a little choked up after seeing Heath in the montage of the previous two movies.

 

[BatLobster]

I remember that. I distinctly remember Bale getting a little choked up after seeing Heath in the montage of the previous two movies.

It was such a genuine and touching moment. You could tell he really felt Heath deserved to be there with them for this victory lap.

 

[Gothamsknight]

It was such a genuine and touching moment. You could tell he really felt Heath deserved to be there with them for this victory lap.

Yup. I still sometimes think about how great it would have been to see Heath with the cast and crew. As well as be on the stage at the oscars accepting his award.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

The loss of Heath will always be felt when it comes to this franchise IMO. As much as I did enjoy TDKR I can't help but wonder how different a movie it would have been had he still been alive to see all the glowing reception he got from TDK and I'm sure Nolan would have found a way to include him in the third and final film of his trilogy, because it wouldn't have made no sense otherwise not to after how popular he became. I just wish we could have heard him talk more about the role and it always saddened me that we will likely never know.

 

[Awest66]

The loss of Heath will always be felt when it comes to this franchise IMO. As much as I did enjoy TDKR I can't help but wonder how different a movie it would have been had he still been alive to see all the glowing reception he got from TDK and I'm sure Nolan would have found a way to include him in the third and final film of his trilogy, because it wouldn't have made no sense otherwise not to after how popular he became. I just wish we could have heard him talk more about the role and it always saddened me that we will likely never know.

In my opinion, It does a massive disservice to the other members of Batman's rogues gallery to keep going back to the Joker over and over again. He already had an entire movie where he was the main villain, He shouldn't require anything more than an Arkham cameo.

I'm not trying to disparage the character or Ledger's magnificent portrayal but I'm kind of sick of Joker in general at this point. If he were available for the third movie, I'm kind of afraid they'd pull an Arkham Origins and have him steal the rug right out from under the other villain and make it all about him again.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

In my opinion, It does a massive disservice to the other members of Batman's rogues gallery to keep going back to the Joker over and over again. He already had an entire movie where he was the main villain, He shouldn't require anything more than an Arkham cameo.

I'm not trying to disparage the character or Ledger's magnificent portrayal but I'm kind of sick of Joker in general at this point. If he were available for the third movie, I'm kind of afraid they'd pull an Arkham Origins and have him steal the rug right out from under the other villain and make it all about him again.

Yeah you make some great points about the Arkham Origins thing, but a part of me still would have liked to at least see him mentioned after the events of TDK even if he couldn't be brought back for a small, supporting role.

I also agree about the Joker being over exposed at this point, although had it been around the time TDKR originally came out I don't think it would feel nearly as bad as it does now since they have pretty much milked the character to death over the past 12 years.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Joker is my favorite villain of all time but even I, here in 2020, think he's been used a bit too much and I'm glad he's not the villain in The Batman. Still, my curiosity of him being in TDKR is still there and I wonder how he would've been used in that film and what his purpose would have been. I would have loved to have seen Ledger reprise the role but unfortunately we'll never know what could have been. Now with all that being said, I still adore TDKR and I think it's an amazing conclusion with a fantastic villain, so I really can't complain.

I think TDKR is also still the best 3rd film in a comic book trilogy.

 

[shauner111]

In my opinion, It does a massive disservice to the other members of Batman's rogues gallery to keep going back to the Joker over and over again. He already had an entire movie where he was the main villain, He shouldn't require anything more than an Arkham cameo.

I'm not trying to disparage the character or Ledger's magnificent portrayal but I'm kind of sick of Joker in general at this point. If he were available for the third movie, I'm kind of afraid they'd pull an Arkham Origins and have him steal the rug right out from under the other villain and make it all about him again.

Once he’s the big baddie, there’s no reason to use him again unless it’s a small side character, like you said. That trilogy was the full story with the rogues. So you needed one movie where Joker’s the main villain. For Reeves Batman, I don’t think the trilogy will be structured like that. Start at Year 2, probably end it open-ended. So I’d rather see Joker in a small role towards the end of the Pattinson run.

He should exist in every Bat universe. But he doesn’t have to keep coming back to hogue the spotlight.