The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 1

[The Batman]

Hahahahah! Trav, did you only watch TDKR once?

 

[Travesty]

I watched it twice in theaters to make sure if I liked it. That's it. I just bought it recently on BluRay. It was used for $1. I got 20 min into it, and I just turned it off. I did watch the Batmobile doc though, and that was definitely worth the price for the Blu Ray.

 

[shauner111]

I don't understand what would be so boring about the first 20 minutes that one would turn it off.

 

[The Joker]

I don't understand what would be so boring about the first 20 minutes that one would turn it off.

Not enough Blake in it maybe?

 

[Travesty]

I've known you since you joined here, and I still believe you secretly like it a lot more than you claim. Nobody who has spent the amount of time you have in the Rises forum (and still does 4 years later) could possibly detest it as much as you say. People tend to actively avoid forums for movies they loathe.

I'm here at The Hype to specifically talk Batman. Sure, there's some bleed through into other areas now, but my bread and butter will always be Batman. I've been a Batman fan since I was 3 years old, and I'll be a Batman fan till the day I die. I don't see it as me coming here to **** on a movie just because, I see it as me talking about Batman. Sometimes that includes the things you hate about it. That happens with a character that has been around for decades now. He's had many interpretations, and some of them I'm not fond of. TDKR just happens to be a version I think is laughably bad. If there's something I like, I'll say why. If there's something I don't, I'll also speak up, too. But overall, it's Batman that brings me back.

So if you don't like my presence around here, blame Finger and Kane.

 

[shauner111]

Hehe. I just watched the majority of it the other night and I still prefer it over the other two. Even though TDK is more well made. Begins is solid but just because it's a better Batman movie, for comic fans, doesn't mean it's the best film of the three. I've always had a problem with the final act. I feel like the studio came in and made Nolan make some weird decisions. Same with Katie's casting. TDK is almost a perfect blockbuster. Rises has flaws but I just find Bruce to be compelling, the action to be epic, the score is phenomenal, and it's not as depressing as TDK. Never had a problem with Bruce retiring for 8 years. It's been 4 years and I still think it's the only logical way to move forward. And once again, I cried at the end of Rises the other night lol. It never fails. That Alfred nod, Bruce's face, pounding drums. I'm a sucker for it every time.

 

[The Joker]

I'm here at The Hype to specifically talk Batman. Sure, there's some bleed through into other areas now, but my bread and butter will always be Batman. I've been a Batman fan since I was 3 years old, and I'll be a Batman fan till the day I die. I don't see it as me coming here to **** on a movie just because, I see it as me talking about Batman. Sometimes that includes the things you hate about it. That happens with a character that has been around for decades now. He's had many interpretations, and some of them I'm not fond of. TDKR just happens to be a version I think is laughably bad. If there's something I like, I'll say why. If there's something I don't, I'll also speak up, too. But overall, it's Batman that brings me back.

Fair enough. But I won't lie you're a rare breed. For example you don't see many Batman fans in the Schumacher Batman threads because most don't like it enough to talk about it on any kind of regular basis. Or the Superman Returns forum. Or the Transformers 2 and 3 forums etc. Forums and threads for unpopular movies tend to be ghost towns most of the time because fans don't like them. Whereas you are here constantly.

It just stood out to me as a contradiction to your constant presence, and often colorful and OTT dislike of TDKR. It made me think you like it more than you are admitting.

So if you don't like my presence around here, blame Finger and Kane.

No need to be so touchy, Trav. I never said your presence here was bad. On the contrary I've always liked you, never had a fall out with you, and had a few laughs with you over the years, including on Rises (Tuppence?).

I thought you'd know that. At least feel it in your bones....and stuff.

 

[Travesty]

Fair enough. But I won't lie you're a rare breed. For example you don't see many Batman fans in the Schumacher Batman threads because most don't like it enough to talk about it on any kind of regular basis. Or the Superman Returns forum. Or the Transformers 2 and 3 forums etc. Whereas you are here constantly.

The differences between those sections, is that I don't think they're nearly as active as this specific thread. It's why I don't talk about BB or TDK much anymore. It's not active enough for me to want to waste time talking about it, cause nobody will engage in reading posts or responding. There's a bit of a give and take there.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

It ain't a fad, the Batman. There has been a section of fans that have preferred BB since 2008.

That's their right. I am just too uncomfortable with a Batman film with a Batman that leaves somebody who isn't an immediate threat anymore (Ra's Al Ghul) to die to be my favorite.

 

[The Joker]

The differences between those sections, is that I don't think they're nearly as active as this specific thread. It's why I don't talk about BB or TDK much anymore. It's not active enough for me to want to waste time talking about it, cause nobody will engage in reading posts or responding. There's a bit of a give and take there.

Yeah they're not active like this thread because there's no fan base there to care enough to talk about them to keep them active. Though there could be a thread or threads somewhere that constantly talk about them, as I admit I don't frequent the likes of the Superman forums, or Transformers to say for sure.

When BB and TDK discussions happen here, I don't think I've ever seen you actively participate in them either. In case you take this the wrong way again, that's not a criticism. Just an observation.

 

[Travesty]

I used to be very active in both the BB and TDK sections, but it's just died down. I think it would be best if they just ended the Nolan specific boards, and lumped it all in the Bat-world sections. I think you would see more active talks on the Nolan movies if it were in there.

 

[The Joker]

It ain't a fad, the Batman. There has been a section of fans that have preferred BB since 2008.

That's their right. I am just too uncomfortable with a Batman film with a Batman that leaves somebody who isn't an immediate threat anymore (Ra's Al Ghul) to die to be my favorite.

Ehhh....I mean I get why people wouldn't like the idea of Batman leaving someone to die, even a villain. But it's not like Batman has not done this kind of thing in the comics;

It's also not as if he took Ra's life, or was responsible for Ra's being in the predicament he was in.

I used to be very active in both the BB and TDK sections, but it's just died down. I think it would be best if they just ended the Nolan specific boards, and lumped it all in the Bat-world sections. I think you would see more active talks on the Nolan movies if it were in there.

You could be right. I mean the Begins forum has no active threads right now. Though I don't think it should be all dumped in Bat World. I think they should just meld all three forums into one Nolan based forum, like the three Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies have their own sub forum on the Spider-Man boards. We used to have something like that for the other Batman movies.

Bat World use to be the Misc Batman movies forum for the Burton/Schumacher movies, before they merged it with the Bat World forum.

 

[Slade W]

Begins has always been my favourite, with TDK 2nd. They are also my two favourite superhero movies overall, with TDKR third. I enjoy them more than Marvel's movies and Raimi's Spiderman films, which are my other favourites from the genre (Iron man, The Avengers and The Winter Soldier to be more specific when it comes to Marvel, as I find the rest to be just ok).

 

[shauner111]

Taking it back to the Nolan/Kubrick topic for a brief moment.

Here's what Nolan had to say about Kubrick. Glad he admits it at least. He's not trying to be him..

“From a storytelling point of view, from a directing point of view, there is one thing I associate with what [Kubrick] does, which is calm,” Nolan tells EW. “There is such an inherent calm and inherent trust of the one powerful image, that he makes me embarrassed with my own work, in terms of how many different shots, how many different sound effects, how many different things we’ll throw at an audience to make an impression. But with Kubrick, there is such a great trust of the one correct image to calmly explain something to the audience. There can be some slowness to the editing. There’s nothing frenetic about it. It’s very simple. There’s a trust in simple storytelling and simple image making that actually takes massive confidence to try and emulate.”

“You look at the cut in 2001, this vast jump forward -- the confidence that takes to do that is actually enormous,” says Nolan. “Would I love to do things like that in my own work? Yes. But I don’t think I have the confidence to do that. Which is why there is only one Stanley Kubrick. I do believe he is inimitable. But you can be inspired. You can be inspired to aspire to be that confident.”

 

[JackWhite]

Im a fan of McQueen but he can be a bit too bleak and depressing for me to call him my number 1 favorite director right now. I would like to see him juggle something with a little bit of humor.

PTA is one of my favs, same with Tarantino. Those guys will always be near the top or at the very top depending on my mood. And as far as im concerned, i have a hard time NOT putting Scorsese straight to number one as long as he's breathing and working! I have a feeling PTA will be doing something a little more conventional though, after Inherent Vice.

As of late Derek Cianfrance is my number one. Followed by Inarritu, Refn, Villeneuve, Aronofsky, Wook-Park, Bong Joon-Ho, Farhadi, Coens, Fukunaga.

I disagree about Inception. With Interstellar, most of the time the characters aren't doing anything other than looking at each other with a straight face, telling them ****. Luckily that movie still gets to me with Zimmers music, the father-daughter relationship, the great action sequences (dat docking scene is legendary to me) and a pretty emotional ending. But it's the toughest watch for me now that i have the blu-ray, thanks to the dialogue and most of the character interaction.

The only time where it was painfully obvious in Rises to me was when Daggett talks about the clean slate to Catwoman.

I don't know what to expect with Dunkirk. It could go either way.

Tarantino was my favorite for years. Still in love with his filmography. I strongly suggest watching Hateful Eight a second time. I dug it SO much more after being let down the first time.

I plan on buying the Blu Ray of Hateful Eight, so a re-watching is definitely in store.

The part where Blake has Lucius explain the bomb was pretty bad too. Alfred talking about his "fantasy" seemed pretty heavy handed to me also, but that might be more a telegraphing of the ending type dislike on my end.

Initially I thought Inception was going to be more mysterious or at least more show don't tell with how Inception worked within the film. I was pretty thrown off when Cobb and the team are sitting there going over how everything works in explicit detail, lol. But It doesn't bother me now.

I was on a big Derek Cianfrance kick a few years ago. I loved both The Place Beyond The Pines and Blue Valentine, but to my knowledge he hasn't does anything since TPBTP. Or am I wrong here?

 

[Kane52630]

Last time I watched TDKR (from start to finish) was a couple years ago. Every time I watch it I find problems either on a storytelling level or production level.

 

[shauner111]

I plan on buying the Blu Ray of Hateful Eight, so a re-watching is definitely in store.

The part where Blake has Lucius explain the bomb was pretty bad too. Alfred talking about his "fantasy" seemed pretty heavy handed to me also, but that might be more a telegraphing of the ending type dislike on my end.

Initially I thought Inception was going to be more mysterious or at least more show don't tell with how Inception worked within the film. I was pretty thrown off when Cobb and the team are sitting there going over how everything works in explicit detail, lol. But It doesn't bother me now.

I was on a big Derek Cianfrance kick a few years ago. I loved both The Place Beyond The Pines and Blue Valentine, but to my knowledge he hasn't does anything since TPBTP. Or am I wrong here?

That scene could have been cut, and went straight into "somebody sold us out!" *gunfire*. I loved Alfreds speech but you could easily do away with the actual flashback where Alfred sits down and sees a different couple sitting across from him.

As for that scene in Inception, i get it. But i think Eames and Arthur are entertaining there so it makes up for it. You have to show something visually or make it entertaining in some way when you're pounding exposition into the audience. I can enjoy Interstellar but have a clear head, enough to not be a fanboy, and criticize the fact that those scenes in Interstellar are not very entertaining at all. The teacher meeting didn't have to be there for example. Inception and Prestige at least show you "magic" tricks or some kind of entertaining interaction/trolling between characters (like with Hardy/JGL. Or JGL kissing Ellen Page). What did Hitchcock use to say? That exposition was a pill that you need to sugar coat.

Cianfrance has a new film coming out in September. "The Light Between Oceans". The trailer dropped a couple weeks ago. It's with Michael Fassbender, Alicia Vikander and Rachel Weisz. Derek always gets the best performances out of every actor he works with. Adam Arkapaw is the cinematographer who shot the first season of True Detective, Top of the Lake, the recent Macbeth etc.

 

[titansupes]

I agree, Fincher is a more apt comparison if you're talking about the actual filmmaking (still hoping that Strangers on a Train remake does happen). The Hitchcock parallel to me is purely about the ability both have to create this larger than life aura around their films.

Speaking of Fincher, he's definitely one of my favorites- Gone Girl reaffirmed that for me. The Coens, Scorcese, Edgar Wright and Tarantino are all in that club too for me. PTA...I feel like I might admire his films more than I love them. But he's ridiculously talented, no question.

I won't dodge the question though, it's Nolan. It's not that I think he's the absolute best working today, he's just my favorite. His sensibilities tend to line up with my own, and even the subject matter of his films has very often lined up with my own interests (Magic, space exploration, Batman- all things I've been very into at one point or another). As a genre fan, I love that nearly all of his films function as neo-noirs on some level, no matter what genre he's playing in or how large in scale. I also love that he seems to be the guy that gets the best work out of Hans Zimmer these days- his scores for Nolan films almost feel like as much of an event as the movies themselves. You take all of that and combine it with someone that is also delivering movies that function as extremely entertaining blockbusters, and then it just becomes this soufflé of so many things going right at once for me. I know that I'm going to get a very filling meal, so to speak, when I see one of his movies. Not a cool kid answer, but gotta be honest. That's just how I currently feel.

I've also got my eye on Rian Johnson. My hope is that Episode VIII will be next-level great, and it'll launch him as a major player that is able to get some original, big-budget ideas made. I see a lot of potential in him.

Looper is very good. I like Brick too, although it is a tad student-filmy- I appreciate what he was going for there.

Ozymandias might very well be the best thing in his filmography though. Even though its impact does rest on the shoulders of the previous 59 episodes in the series, it's just so damn perfectly directed and acted every step of the way.

The potential I see in Rian is a combination of what I've seen in his work, and hearing him on podcasts and other interviews where he talks about film. He's got some really interesting influences swirling around up there. Also just seems like a really cool, laid back dude. A film geek in the best sense of the word.

Get out of my head, boy!

But seriously, all that. I always have an eye out for whatever Fincher/Tarantino/Spielberg etc are doing next, but for me, it's Nolan through-and-through. He's the only one that's ever held my "favourite director" spot, in spite of their being plenty of others that I love. It started with The Prestige, which blew my mind and continues to every time I watch it (there's always something new to appreciate every time for me) and then hit critical mass with TDK. I know people like to bad mouth his shot choice and editing, but those are genuinely two of my favourite things. He pulls a lot of beauty out of seemingly simple shots (with of course huge help from Pfister and now Hoytema) and I love the unforgiving pace of his cuts... It's classic yet modern at the same time and combines to give this great energy.

I get the complaints over the exposition, and it did bother me in Interstellar more than any others for the same reason someone else said-- Those people should already know that stuff. There was no audience POV character to motivate the exposition like Ariadne in Inception. Beyond that though, I think he writes it well enough that he pulls it off, and it's necessary to his mixture of art house and blockbuster which has served him so well.

Also, completely agreed on Rian Johnson, but that may be because my EpVIII hype is out of control. Rewatched most of Looper the other night, and love it more and more every time. I remember watching the first half or so of Brick in film school years ago (2008) and just hating it... Watched it all the way through on Netflix last year, and still not a fan. There was obvious talent there, but I just found the whole think too wanky.

Is it just me, or has it become a bit of a fad to prefer Batman Begins over The Dark Knight?

I've noticed that, too. It usually comes from the fans railing against the 'realism' aspect of the trilogy* and saying that it was the only Batfilm of the lot. BUT-- Like the loud minority who try to retroactively paint TDKR as being as divisive as MoS (nope)-- it always tends to come of second and often even third best in polls and ranking threads. I'm a fan, but I firmly rank it third in the trilogy myself.

*And of course, there are those for whom it's genuinely their favourite.

 

[shauner111]

I always wanted to play a drinking game. Guzzle down your drink every time you hear "fear" in Batman Begins.

Titansupes, i agree about Prestige. It's on par with Memento for me, yet people overlook it. I find it more entertaining. Insomnia is one of Nolan's weaker films but it's still a solid thriller. Really like what Pacino and Williams did there. Good tension there when Pacino's character is frantically running around, trying to find the gun and not get caught. Pfister did a great job with that one too.

 

[JackWhite]

That little chase scene on the docks was pretty intense.

The first time they meet always seems like the precursor to the interrogation room scene in TDK for me. Especially with Pacino getting rough with Robin Williams character.

 

[BatLobster]

He pulls a lot of beauty out of seemingly simple shots (with of course huge help from Pfister and now Hoytema) and I love the unforgiving pace of his cuts... It's classic yet modern at the same time and combines to give this great energy.

Completely agreed there, brother. Well said. I think his pacing is exactly why a lot of cinephiles often stop short of putting him in that elite category, because they tend to value the power of the shot vs. propulsive editing, but I really love the way his films move.

Interstellar did hold on some awe-inspiring shots though. I still remember some audible gasps in the theater on that shot of the the ship looking like a tiny blip against the vastness of Jupiter.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I don't understand what would be so boring about the first 20 minutes that one would turn it off.

agreed

one could even argue that the first 5 minutes steals the entire show

 

[batfreakforever]

I watched it twice in theaters to make sure if I liked it. That's it. I just bought it recently on BluRay. It was used for $1. I got 20 min into it, and I just turned it off. I did watch the Batmobile doc though, and that was definitely worth the price for the Blu Ray.

Wow. You must be really impatient to turn it off 20 mins through it. If the first 10 min didn't do it for you then it's really not the movie for you. Really you had to see it twice to see if you liked it. Wow. Just wow.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[shauner111]

Yeah that's weird. If you didn't like anything about it the first time, why would you pay to see it again? If I sat through a movie I thought sucked, not only would I never watch it again unless it's YEARS later to roast it with people, but I would stay as far away as possible. I'm curious Trav, what were some of your favorite films from last year? I'm tryin to figure out if you genuinely dislike TDKR and to a lesser extent TDK...or...do you just have a bit of a short attention span. If it's genuine dislike then I'm still baffled as to why you keep hating on it. I may be known to put down elements of Batman Returns and Man of Steel but I try to list some things that I dig about them.