The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 2

[The Joker]

Still the best!

That whole penthouse section of the film shows all the great little things, that make Batman who he is. Right down to tossing away his alcohol when he leaves the room, to showing his selflessness when he tells Rachel that Harvey can be the guy who takes over and does the city good, to saving Harveys life, to taking apart a goon's gun after taking it from him. The goddamn Batman! Well, at least...my Batman!

The penthouse party scenes are gold. The only worthwhile cameo Senator Leahy had in the Batman movies. Everyone remembers the guy Joker said looked like his father.

Damn. Bale looked so gaunt in TDK.

I wish I looked that gaunt.

 

[shauner111]

He was lean. Bruce doesn't have to look like a bodybuilder. If he's leaner, then he's "gaunt", it's weird.

 

[The Shape]

This is gaunt:

 

[The Joker]

^ It's amazing and little disturbing how he went from that to his Batman Begins weight in such a short space of time. Bale has done things with his body weight that seem impossible. Such a dedicated actor.

 

[BatLobster]

Haha, yeah you did call it Shika. I agree with JackWhite here though:

I disagree with the last part though. Could you imagine Snyder just continuing off with Nolan's version if it didn't have a definitive ending? He would have found some way to screw it up no matter what, IMO.

In a lot of ways Snyder's Batman IS like an alternate history of what happened to Bale's Batman after TDK. Complete with the burned Wayne Manor and everything. Just sub out Rachel for Robin and you're basically there.

And I think regardless, having a Batman series with a loose continuity where the integrity of the story slowly got watered down over time would've led to a repeat of what happened in the 90s, so I think a reboot was inevitable no matter what.

With any luck, maybe Affleck's Batman will be in the inverse of what happened with the Burton/Schumacher series. Starts out with a poorly received film, but works his way to a great stand alone film to end on a high note.

Btw, I've noticed a few fun little parallels between BvS and B&R.

- Fourth film after a 'trilogy'. (Forever can be viewed as a trilogy capper to Burton's first film)
- Both have an Oscar winning screenwriter. Goldsman after writing it, Terrio before.
- Both are the only Batman films to feature Batman + another hero in the title.
- Ditto for their logos.
- Both have the titular heroes at odds with one another throughout the movie.
- Both have a trinity of heroes (two male, one female) come together for the climax.
- Arguably, they are "jump the shark" moments for opposite ends of the tonal spectrum- 'dark and gritty' and 'light and fun'.
- Both were critically panned and despite being profitable, were underperformers at the box office.

Biggest difference? In 1997 they pulled the plug on the franchise, but today WB is all

Spoiler

 

[Tacit Ronin]

In a lot of ways Snyder's Batman IS like an alternate history of what happened to Bale's Batman after TDK. Complete with the burned Wayne Manor and everything. Just sub out Rachel for Robin and you're basically there.

Makes sense in Snyder's alternate verse Bale's Batman would say "**** it, let the manor rot" instead of rebuilding it brick by brick. Everything has to be a bit more aholish.

 

[titansupes]

The most depressing this about the moronic posts in the SS section ("Superman is lame, Snyder made him relevant. Batman teh rulez!") is that... I'm pretty sure that's how Snyder thinks, too.

 

[The Shape]

- Both were critically panned and despite being profitable, were underperformers at the box office.

To be fair, B&R was MUCH more of an underperformer than BvS ever will be, and also a text book franchise killer. The decision to pull the plug on those movies was clearly more warranted than it would be following Bvs.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The most depressing this about the moronic posts in the SS section ("Superman is lame, Snyder made him relevant. Batman teh rulez!") is that... I'm pretty sure that's how Snyder thinks, too.

Your typical facebook batfans. Except they are in the hype now.

 

[BatLobster]

To be fair, B&R was MUCH more of an underperformer than BvS ever will be, and also a text book franchise killer. The decision to pull the plug on those movies was clearly more warranted than it would be following Bvs.

Oh for sure. BvS will be more profitable despite costing them a lot more, though at the same time I think it also had a much higher potential that it failed to reach, especially given how hot the genre is now compared to 1997.

Anyhow, I know they were mostly just superficial parallels. B&R's legacy will always be killing the Batman franchise, while BvS's is still TBD depending on how the DCEU goes. Although it will have both the Batman and Superman franchises attached to its legacy.

 

[shauner111]

Good call on the alternate universe.

To me, it's like if Joker won at the end of TDK and the public knew right away that Harvey went nuts, Batman saved Gordon's kids. Bats would have continued. Nobody would trust the system anymore and they would continue to live in fear. Freaks would be inspired by Joker and even Two-Face. Joker would have eventually broken out of Arkham. Perhaps a young Robin does come into play and gets murdered. Bruce doesn't stop being Batman, drops his moral code eventually, losing faith in humanity. Wayne Manor is never really rebuilt. Superman arrives, there ya go.

There are differences though. You have one Joker who seems to enjoy materialistic, stylish s**t, has his own gang of loyal thugs/bodyguards like Nicholson, fancy cars, haircuts etc. The other Joker doesn't give a **** about hygiene, loyalty, mob mentality, material.

But it's kind of a loose alternate universe - sequel. Or maybe this alternate reality is just a nightmare that Bale's Bruce is having right now in Italy

 

[Tacit Ronin]

and the public knew right away that Harvey went nuts

In Snyder's alternate Nolan-verse, Batman doesn't make the selfless act of taking the blame for the murders. Makes sense.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, it's more of a loose alternate universe. Almost like Superman Returns, where it's sort of following up the first two films in the franchise and ignoring the rest- even though other obvious things like the age of the characters don't add up.

If you want to look at it like that anyway. As of now I think you can just project whatever history you want onto Batfleck- a rough history of the comics, the Nolan films, etc. It's an empty canvas for you to fill with your own knowledge of Batman. I think that's actually a pretty smart way to go about it.

In Snyder's alternate Nolan-verse, Batman doesn't make the selfless act of taking the blame for the murders. Makes sense.

Haha, sounds about right.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Heroism is for losers and pansies. Haven't you read Ayn Rand's essays?

 

[shauner111]

You blew my mind Batlobster, with the Wayne Manor observation.

So in this alternate universe, i don't think Bats came across Bane. Joker apparently fell in love with all things..STYLE. Mob bosses became freaks, vice versa. Alfred stopped talking about tangerines.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

So in this alternate universe, i don't think Bats came across Bane. Joker apparently fell in love with all things..STYLE. Mob bosses became freaks, vice versa. Alfred stopped talking about tangerines.

And Batman stops using his elbows as a primary weapon.

 

[BatLobster]

One thing that sort of shoots a hole in the theory is Bruce's line "I've known a few women like you." Obviously a nod to Catwoman and Talia.

Though I suppose they could've shown up in different ways than what we saw in TDKR in the post-TDK "alt-verse".

 

[Monochron]

Has anyone here ever tried to listen to the manofsteelanswers podcast?

 

[titansupes]

One thing that sort of shoots a hole in the theory is Bruce's line "I've known a few women like you." Obviously a nod to Catwoman and Talia.

Though I suppose they could've shown up in different ways than what we saw in TDKR in the post-TDK "alt-verse".

Can't remember if we've talked about this, probably have, but-- did you guys notice the reference the the Bolshoi Ballerina?

 

[BatLobster]

I did notice that. What was the line again though?

 

[The Joker]

Has anyone here ever tried to listen to the manofsteelanswers podcast?

I wouldn't listen to any Man Of Steel podcast. Anything special about this one?

 

[titansupes]

I did notice that. What was the line again though?

Not sure. He mentions something about a Bolshoi Ballerina... teaching him a bit of Russian, maybe? And KGBeast says something like "I'll bet that's not all she taught you".

 

[The Shape]

My buddy gave me this BvS tourist guide book for Metropolis and Gotham that he got from the premiere. It has a lot of awesome details that gives some details about Batfleck's career and also lends itself to more speculation. Found some scans online:

Spoiler

 

[shauner111]

Holy s**t, you guys. Blowing my mind here, i didn't make that connection. He said something in Russian to KGBeast, and Bruce follows it up with "one night a Russian ballet dancer, that's the only line she taught me". #ConspiracyTheories

Different versions of Talia and Selina have definitely made their way into Bruce's life. Selina at least.

 

[The Shape]

Not sure. He mentions something about a Bolshoi Ballerina... teaching him a bit of Russian, maybe? And KGBeast says something like "I'll bet that's not all she taught you".

Hey-oh!