The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 3

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Most of the reviews say Apocalypse isn't bad. Just more of the same. Been there, done that sort of thing. A stagnant feeling. Average.

Apparently it has the same mind numbing destruction scenes that populate Bay and Emmerich films.
 
So underwhelming then? That is still a pretty big letdown, especially with how solid the first two entries of the trilogy were. I will still try and get out there to see it though.
 
I wouldn't call it a trilogy since they'll probably do another sequel set in the 90s.
 
Not a huge surprise. The trailers and marketing have been pretty underwhelming thus far.
 
The franchise desperately needs new blood with a more expansive vision. This is 2016. We should be seeing the X-men in the Savage Lands fighting Dinosaurs. Or up in space teaming with the Shi'ar empire.
 
Or in anything that doesn't involve Mystique leading the team.
 
I hope Charles doesn't tell Erik for the 75th time that he knows he has good in him.
 
You know what I'd love to see happen?

Raimi directs a Spider-Man film in the MCU. Highly doubt it would happen, but that would be really cool, and kind of full circle considering his Spider-Man movies really set a tone for what was to come in the MCU.
He probably wouldn't like the idea of directing him stuck in high school.
 
The franchise desperately needs new blood with a more expansive vision. This is 2016. We should be seeing the X-men in the Savage Lands fighting Dinosaurs.
Sounds good, don't think Ka-Zar is owned by Marvel Studios
Or up in space teaming with the Shi'ar empire.
That plot is dreadful, whether it does or does not involve the stupidly established stupid romance between Chuck and Lilly.

Or in anything that doesn't involve Mystique leading the team.
Mystique and Wolverine could certainly take a break from the series.
 
It's better to leave Raimi with Maguire. In the past. I'm excited to see new directors tackle the character, with Marvel's input.
 
It's looking like the trend with comic book films this year is:

Deadpool - Great

BVS - Awful

Civil War - Great

X-Men Apocalypse - Really bad?

So by that guideline SS should at least deliver a good film.

Seeing Civil War tonight, folks!

I wouldn't count Apocalypse out yet. It's still only on 40 reviews, and climbed up to 50% now. It may still make it to a decent fresh rating.
 
Yeah, I still want to wait and see how Apocalypse is with my own eyes.

Now on to Civil War. That might be my favorite of the MCCU movies yet. I had the biggest grin on my face during the big fight at the airport and was shaking in my seat from the intensity of Cap/Bucky vs Iron Man.

What impressed me the most was how not one of the characters felt just thrown into the mix for the sake of having them. I mean sure, having Spider-Man there was mostly for fan service but I'm glad this was his introductory into the MCCU. I'm very relieved they got this faux-origin story out of the way before Homecoming.

I'm still not sure who impressed me more - This new cinematic version of Spidey or Black Panther. I might give the edge to Black Panther just because this is his first time on the big screen and he was a bad ass. I'm not that familiar with the character but I'm really excited to see more of him.

Tom Holland nailed it in his first outing as Spidey. I can't say he is the definitive version of the character because he didn't even have an arc or anything in the film, but the promise he has is tremendous.

DC/WB......for shame.
 
Cap is not a trilogy! Surprise surprise the author says TDKR lets the side down.
 
Scrolling through most of the comments below the article there were supporters of Begins and Tdk.
 
I get kind of burnt out from these think pieces sometimes, but I'm curious to see the rebuttal. It's a pretty easy one to make, IMO.

Honestly, the fact that TDKT is constantly the thing that people want to compare other comic book movies to just goes to show that it's still the yardstick and probably will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

Even if you want to focus on its flaws, it's still just cut from a different cloth. For instance, The Dark Knight is #4 on the IMDB top 250. The next comic book film after that is The Dark Knight Rises at #62. Then Batman Begins at #109. After that is V for Vendetta at #149.

I'm not saying the IMDB rankings are gospel, and I know there are a lot of hardcore Nolan fans on there, but the general point is that TDK is often considered alongside some of the greatest movies of all time. And regardless of what one thinks of Begins or Rises, it's the centerpiece of the trilogy which means that's a big thing you have to consider when viewing it as one piece of work.

I'm also pretty sure that TDKT and LOTR are the only two trilogies where all 3 films are in the top 250. In LOTR's case, all 3 films are in the top 15 which is just insane. Again, not saying this makes anything gospel but it gives a glimpse into what the film fan community thinks of these films as opposed to just the people who are specifically superhero fans.
 
Wait, so one of the reasons for The Cap trilogy being better than TDKT is it shows us our better selves?



I can't read anymore after that.
 
LOL exactly. I guess that makes it better than The Godfather Trilogy too.

And hey, the ferries don't blow each other up. The movies show that the world is full of people READDDY TO BELIEEVE IN GOOOODDD. :oldrazz:

But yeah, piss poor argument.
 
Most of the reviews say Apocalypse isn't bad. Just more of the same. Been there, done that sort of thing. A stagnant feeling. Average.

Apparently it has the same mind numbing destruction scenes that populate Bay and Emmerich films.

That's a shame. I wasn't interested until the superbowl trailer, and that was mostly for Mystique and her wanting to , I guess, take the fight to Apocalypse. The scenes of mass destruction did worry me, since I'd seen it back in X3. I would've preferred to see the mutants going after the nonmutants with mob justice...to drive home the horror of what Apocalypse was selling his followers.
 
Alrighty, Civil War review.

Before I review the film itself, I wanna do brief review of the comic. I absolutely dreaded Civil War. If you thought I was tough on BvS, you've seen nothing. My dislike of Civil War is only surpassed by my dislike of One More Day (a sequel to Civil War, go figure).

First, let's remember the SHA was meant to be a metaphor for the Patriot Act. Whether or not you agree with Patriot Act, it doesn't change the fact that it fails as a metaphor. The Patriot Act, much like the the Mutant Registration Act, is all about targeting people based on what they are as opposed to what they do. If you were born with a mutant gene, you have to register based on that. If you're an American resident, especially if you're a Middle Eastern one, we have to surveillance you. That's the idea behind those acts. The SHA on the other hand, only requires you to registrate if you're someone who wants to fight crime. The way it was explained in the Civil War comic itself - I'm going by that since no one at Marvel could make up their minds on what the act was - it's similar to being a private detective. You don't have to join a police department to be a detective, but you still need to be licensed and held accountable under the same laws. So on what ****ing planet does Cap live on to think he can go around in a mask fighting "bad guys" (people he basically decides are bad guys) with no accountability whatsoever? That's vigilantism. We have laws against vigilantism for good reasons.

Now it's true superheroes act as vigilantes all the time - it's a staple of the genre after all - but there's really only two ways to make that work. You can either ignore it via suspension of disbelief, or you can do a character like Batman who's conflicted on where the line is. The second you bring in the real-life politics and have someone like Cap plant their feet in the ground and claim they have a right to act as vigilantes, the whole thing falls apart. As such Civil War isn't just an idiotic premise from the start; it's also one of Cap's biggest ***hole moments in all comic book history.

Now here's where the Team Cap players come in and cry foul. "Oh, but Tony became quasi-Hitler!" "SHIELD locked up people for nothing!" "Look at how EVIL the pro-registration people are!!!!!!" Sure, but they only did all that once they realized just how stupid Cap's argument was. It was so dumb they had to completely demonize the pro-reg side just to make it work. It's not a testimony to how "evil" the pro-reg side was, it's a testimony of the anti-reg side's complete imbecility (or rather the writers' imbecility).

And that's just the political aspect. Never mind the fact the people asked for superheroes be held accountable, unlike the Patriot Act where the government passed it in a matter of weeks without the public being let in or knowing much about it. Never mind the fact the incident that triggered the whole thing makes no sense when stuff like that happens all the time in the Marvel universe. Never mind the years of damage it brought to many Marvel characters like Iron Man and Spider-Man, some of which still haven't fully recovered. Finally, never mind the fact every character in the book is horrendously out of character, to the point you have to know absolutely nothing about them just to enjoy the damn book (honorary mention: The Punisher having no problem with the anti-reg heroes recruiting supervillains). I could talk all day on how much of a dog turd Civil War was, but I'll end it here.

Anyways, onto the film.

Surprisingly, I have no problem with Cap's position in the film. I still think it's as flawed as it was in the comic, but I didn't mind it for a couple of reasons. First, though still stubborn, Cap's stance came off more foolish and naive to me as opposed to ***holish. I think it's due to the fact Steve doubts himself throughout the film, and doesn't make up his mind on the Accords until he hears Peggy's words. Second, it helps that the film never took a side on who the good guy is and allowed...invited the audience to think for themselves on that. It also helps there was no Fascist Tony this time. Third, the whole plot doesn't revolve around registration. While I think Cap was foolish in regards to the Sokovia Accords, I thought Tony was foolish in regards to Bucky. So in the end they kinda balanced each other out for me.

As far as themes go, the film is all about a) the relationship between vengeance and redemption and b) the ways in which vengeance gets the worst in everyone. Each character has either a vengeance or redemption motive that's informed by the latter. The incident at the beginning is triggered by someone with a vengeance motive, causing Scarlet Witch to kill many civilians in the process. Tony starts out seeking redemption, only for the events in the story to drive him to a point where he desires vengeance. In the process he loses a lot of his friends, especially Cap. Zemo is the same way, allowing vengeance to consume him to the point he breaks apart the Avengers and resorts to wanting to commit suicide. Black Panther is the reverse of all this, starting out driven by vengeance but having a character arc by the end after seeing how vengeance consumed those around him. Bucky starts out starts out being a puppet to someone with a motive of vengeance, but by the end seeks redemption in the only way he could (by freezing himself). Then there's Spider-Man, whose feelings of helping out the little guy are clearly motivated by his guilt over Uncle Ben's death. I feel I could go on, but those are probably the best examples.

I don't know what else to say that hasn't already been said. The juggling aspect is as solid as everyone claims it is, but I feel Rhodey should've have more screentime. Rhodey doesn't really have an action scene or a one-on-one with another character until after he gets injured. I feel he should've had that to make his incident have more impaction. I honestly would've cut out Spider-Man completely and given those minutes to Rhodey. Spidey was enjoyable but he doesn't need to be in the film, he grinds the film's pacing to a halt. It's also out of character for Tony to put a kid in danger, especially after the thing with the kid who got killed in Sokovia. As for Spider-Man himself, I have some potential issues with the direction they're taking the character in. I'll reserve judgment till Homecoming, but as he stands in this film he doesn't feel as independent of a character as I feel he should be. Tom Holland is fantastic though, and other than the issues I had Spidey was perfect in every other way.

Zemo is arguably the MCU's second best film villain so far, the first obviously being Loki. He's kinda simple, but I feel that's what worked about him. He's not out to cause massive destruction or take over the world, he's just a regular guy on a revenge quest. In a lot of ways he's the perfect kind of villain if you want someone to tear the team down, because he's the type of person you'd least expect to pull it off, which adds to the tragedy of it in the process. Similarly to Luthor though, but nowhere near the same stupendous degree, there's some things that don't add up in his plan. How did he know Bucky wouldn't get killed by the SWAT members that went after him? Or where'd they take him? Or that they would specifically get the psychologist he murdered to diagnose him? I wish we spent a little more time with him. Again, despite how enjoyable Spider-Man is, I would have probably used more of that screentime on Zemo as well.

Like most Marvel films, it continues the trend of (for the most part) showing each of our heroes at their best with each increasing film. This can't be anymore especially true for Tony though. I felt this was the most humanized Tony we've gotten since IM1. He still has all the negative aspects that comes with being Tony, but we haven't seen that soft side of him since the first film, at least not in any large dose. Going in I was skeptical going on Bucky killing Tony's parents and how that would play out, but I completely bought it by the end. The interesting thing is how they managed to make me care for Tony's grief despite the fact he was clearly acting irrationally. Vision is another I felt became very humanized in this film, which is one of the things that was missing in Age of Ultron. And then there's Black Panther, whom I loved everything about. The performance was uncanny, the accent is perfect, looks incredible and is overall just so charismatic and likeable. He's one of those characters where it's hard to describe just how enjoyable they were.

Overall I give the film a solid 5/5. It has a few issues, but it's nothing that majorly hurts its overall quality. As of now, I would rank this as the best Marvel film overall, MCU or otherwise. I feel it's the film which embodies Marvel Studios the most. If you'd want to show a stranger why you're a fan of Marvel Studios, this is the film to show them and go "see, this is why they're so praised" (granted you need to watch some of the previous films for this one to make sense, but I'm sure everyone understood what I meant).
 
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Great review. I also think it was clever that

Cap's no compromise speech from the comics was attributed instead to Peggy Carter in the film. The speech gains unique power coming from a woman who had to stave off 20th century sexism. With Cap, a picture of Aryan perfection, it may be read as stand offish and smug.
 
Solid review, Shika :up:

I would agree that Zemo is Marvel's second best villain. Which is a shame because Daniel Bruhl did just fine, but as usual he didn't leave a big impression like a great villain should. What elevates him to second place for me, obviously second to Loki, is how ruthless he was, and his back story for why he was out to do what he did was surprisingly sympathetic.
 
I was actually surprised at how much screentime he got. I was expecting another Strucker/Zola.
 
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