The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 3

[BatLobster]

I am still a Wachowski's fan. But they are not suited to the material.

But still, Matrix, Bound, Cloud Atlas and Speed Racer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snyder.

Dude....don't make Lobby hug you again.

Now they're going to the other extreme; family friendly. It has to be either dark and grim or family friendly. Like there's no balance. I just read a quote in the new interview about all the heroes smiling in JL lol. The failed TASM franchise tried the same thing. The first movie was trying to emulate Nolan's gritty tone, then the sequel went in the opposite direction, so cheesy and cartoony, and tried to start an expansive universe like Marvel.

That's a good point. This could very well end up following the same path as the TASM franchise. Although BvS was a bit like ASM-2 in and of itself with all the shameless world-building.

I agree though. Ideally, they would've found a unique tone that was balanced to begin with, and wouldn't need to be pulling such a drastic 180. Oh well, is what it is I guess.

I will admit that I'm looking forward to seeing the dynamic of a non-murdering Batman having to put together and lead a team full of different personalities. That could potentially be fun.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

On a brighter note, I loved everything Affleck had to say about The Batman. I am down for more focus on Batman as a detective.

 

[Brother Jack]

One of the Snyders said that the lesson they learned with BVS was that audiences don't like their heroes deconstructed. That right there tells me they didn't really learn. Some of the most highly regarded superhero films ever made are deconstructionist, including the latter two parts of TDKT and Civil War. That wasn't the issue with the movie, nor was it the tone or that it was trying to do something different. The issue was the weak execution. Poor writing, bad direction, shoddy craftsmanship. It was trying to deconstruct something that hadn't even been built yet.

 

[BatLobster]

I do think you might be able to make the argument that audiences and fans don't like Superman deconstructed.

I also think there are different levels of deconstructionism, and Snyder went for Watchmen-esque levels of it with BvS.

Granted, that is far from BvS's only problem, but of course they're gonna put these things out there into tidy, digestible soundbites in their attempt to reassure fans that things are moving in a different direction now.

 

[JackWhite]

At the end of the day it's all about execution.

 

[BatLobster]

It definitely is, I mean personally I was willing to accept a dark take, if done well.

But at the same time, I know there are many fans and critics that objected to the dark take, especially with Superman (two movies in a row), on a fundamental level. So I get why they're emphasizing the tonal shift.

 

[JackWhite]

Having Superman be just as brooding and sulky as Batman was the dumbest thing Snyder could have done. It's like he didn't understand the contrast and differences the two characters have which is what makes their dynamic together so interesting. How he got that wrong still boggles my mind.

Imagine if Nolan totally fudged the dynamic and moral push and pull between Batman and the Joker in TDK. lol.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Debbie Snyder: people no like deconstructed heroes.

Meanwhile, Civil War.

 

[BatLobster]

Imagine if Nolan totally fudged the dynamic and moral push and pull between Batman and the Joker in TDK. lol.

I remember when people were worried that Nolan's Joker would be too serious and just be a "Die Hard villain in clown makeup".

That was pretty much put to rest after the scene with the mob bosses.

 

[JackWhite]

haha, yes. The Joker speculation right after BB was pretty funny. Some people thought Nolan wouldn't do the classic purple suit and opt to have Joker in either black or really really dark purple.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Don't think I ever heard of the Joker speculation before.

 

[I Am The Knight]

If I remember correctly there were some early rumors suggesting that his role in the story would be based on Joker's Five Way Revenge.

 

[Brother Jack]

haha, yes. The Joker speculation right after BB was pretty funny. Some people thought Nolan wouldn't do the classic purple suit and opt to have Joker in either black or really really dark purple.

I had that fear early on to be honest. Only because at that time Nolan was still somewhat of an unknown entity to me. Sure, Begins was great, but I hadn't seen his other films and didn't know if he could pull it off again with a Batman sequel. And then there was the whole thing with the makeup vs. permawhite.

 

[BatLobster]

I remember having a lot of mixed feelings about this pic.

On one hand, it indicated how dark this take on the character would be, which was a good thing for me. I always tend to find panda eyes always creepy too, so I was okay with that.

On the other hand, I wasn't sure how I felt about the smeared lipstick and it was hard to get a feel for it without seeing the hair and wardrobe. Once I saw those too things, plus with redder lipstick, everything fell into place for me.

 

[titansupes]

^ I was one of the few that instantly loved both the Ledger choice and that reveal pic. It still might be my favourite pic of him. I actually say a great manip that completed it (visible hair and jacket etc) a couple of weeks ago, on what I'm sure was an unlicensed product.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I had zero exposure to anything about the movie before seeing it.
Two years later I joined Superhero Hype, and it became hard to escape knowing info about projects I anticipate without having 50 ideas on how it will be, and 500 fan theories on what will happen.

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

Btw, Michael Jai White (Gambol) had an AMA on reddit recently.

https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/com...l_jai_white_star_of_the_upcoming_film/d4ji8cp

mi-16evil
I'm curious, what was Heath Ledger like on set as The Joker? I think due to the circumstances of his death there's a lot of myths going around on what he was like during filming. Was he always in character? Did you enjoy working with him?
Also just thanks so much for Black Dynamite. It's my go-to feel better movie. It's helped me laugh through some tough times so thanks for being so damn funny.

Michael_Jai_WhiteAMA
Heath was never in character after the camera was off. He was a nice guy who had fun with everyone between takes. He even asked other actors opinions of what he was doing with the character as he continued to experiment with various takes. The first day I worked with him, although he knew he wasn't going to be on camera, he stayed in costume and in prosthetic makeup all day just for the benefit of the other actors!

https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/com...l_jai_white_star_of_the_upcoming_film/d4jin02

Anna_Kendricks_Pubes
What are we supposed to assume The Joker did to Gambol to kill him? Was that ever discussed, or were you just told to drop dead?

Michael_Jai_WhiteAMA
No. I was just cut across the face when we filmed it. It wasn't a death scene when we shot it.

 

[Greens]

Man, this only reinforces my need for more behind the scenes of material of Heath. We have one spy-video of him in between takes. I want more!

 

[The Joker]

That's awesome. Hearing the behind the scenes stories of Heath are like gold dust. We don't get enough of them.

 

[Brother Jack]

Man, this only reinforces my need for more behind the scenes of material of Heath. We have one spy-video of him in between takes. I want more!

I wouldn't want to see that stuff, personally. I feel like the illusion of the performance would be diminished somewhat, considering that it's already kind of immaculate. Though it would help to dispel the sensationalist myths about Ledger "going too far" with the role. I've seen that stuff perpetuated too many times, even with friends of mine.

 

[DACrowe]

Oh, it was terrible, arguably even worse than BVS, but I thought it was that enjoyable kind of bad, whereas BVS was just dull.

I never thought I would defend Batman v Superman, but it is not Jupiter Ascending bad. Yikes. That is one of the worst blockbusters I have ever seen. Just on a fundamental, conception level, right down the page to casting, it does not work at all. And is even duller and more up its own ass.

Oh by why must we argue? Let's not watch either.

 

[DACrowe]

Another thing I noticed: Bruce was all too eager to do detective work on Selina Kyle while totally ignoring Bane. Leaving that to Alfred.

Do you think that painted Bruce as selfish and reckless? Seemingly more interested in his mother's missing pearls than a super terrorist?

Or was that Bruce's subconscious desire to die which made him underestimate Bane as hinted in the film?

I think he was more interested in Selina Kyle period than same guy in a gas mask on steroids. Little did he know he was following the wrong lead.

I think Selina shook him out of apathy. Blake and Gordon gave him the excuse to don the suit again.

 

[Ryan]

One thing that I always found interesting was Fox's feelings in Tdkr. He says "WE all want what's best for you Bruce". I'm guessing his view was different than Alfred's, as Fox all but lures Bruce in to see the latest tech that he has, despite Wayne's initial hesitation. Having just watched the entire trilogy yesterday, I still find certain aspects of tdkr that are still problematic for me.

 

[JackWhite]

That's interesting. The "we all want what's best for you, Bruce" line is definitely aimed at him looking to settle down and presumably court Miranda. But I always took Fox showing Bruce the Bat as a way to get him to feel alive again and the idea to fix the autopilot was another way for him to get the creative juices flowing.

We never do get a feel on how Lucius feels about Bruce returning as Batman though. Blake, Selina, and Gordon are all pretty ecstatic to see him dawn the cape and cowl again during Batman's first night back. Alfred is clearly against the idea, but what was Lucius' stance on it? If anything he seemed indifferent about it.

 

[Brother Jack]

I think it's clear Lucius wanted Bruce to be Batman again. He insists on showing him the R&D room even after Bruce says he's retired and preemptively tells him the Bat comes in black. I got the impression he wanted to see Bruce fulfilled again and that being Batman was an outlet for him to do that. This would also imply that Lucius is pro-Batman, at least to the extent that it functions as a motivator for Bruce.