The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 3

[The Joker]

This was in the latest issue of Deadpool;

 

[The Batman]

Lmao.

 

[titansupes]

Well, that was certainly direct.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

DC fans are crying that it's unprofessional, as if DC never took cheapshots at Marvel before. Not to mention Snyder himself has taken cheapshots at Marvel countless times unprovoked.

 

[The Joker]

Tell the over sensitive ones to relax. The issue made fun of the whole CBM industry, that one just happened to be the funniest.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Have any of ya watched the Ultimate Cut yet? I am planning on watching it soon. I keep putting it off staring at the intimidating length.

 

[DACrowe]

Tell the over sensitive ones to relax. The issue made fun of the whole CBM industry, that one just happened to be the funniest.

This is kind of Deadpool's jam, and it was pretty funny. I suspect Zack Snyder has more things to worry about than what one comic book writer published in a comic book last month.

 

[titansupes]

This is kind of Deadpool's jam, and it was pretty funny. I suspect Zack Snyder has more things to worry about than what one comic book writer published in a comic book last month.

He'll likely never know about it. It's not like he reads comics.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

He only reads comics with sex and violence in them.

 

[titansupes]

He only reads glances at comics with sex and violence in them.

Fixed?

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Nah. He reads comics with sex and violence. He only glances at the comics he is adapting from.

 

[titansupes]

Touche.

 

[Shikamaru]

That panel is hilarious.

 

[AnneFan]

Have any of ya watched the Ultimate Cut yet? I am planning on watching it soon. I keep putting it off staring at the intimidating length.

I've seen it, and it's excellent.

 

[Kane52630]

Have any of ya watched the Ultimate Cut yet? I am planning on watching it soon. I keep putting it off staring at the intimidating length.

I've been busy catching up on other movies that is worth more my time like Green Room and Eye in the Sky.

I'll probably see it eventually though.

 

[Slade W]

This was in the latest issue of Deadpool;

 

[shauner111]

I've seen it, and it's excellent.

But you already loved the theatrical cut. I seriously doubt any of us will like it any more than "well that had better pacing and a couple of cool new scenes".

I doubt my 40 percent rating will go up to a 70 or 80 percent.

 

[The Joker]

From what I hear the UC is like spraying some air freshener into a room filled with dung. It masks some of the smell but the main stink is still there. The "improvements" it makes are mainly superficial ones.

 

[The Shape]

Regarding the UC only containing superficial differences: Yeah, that's not true at all. Superficial "improvements" would be something along the lines of adding a few cool additional shots to the action sequences, a couple of seemingly insignificant deleted scenes which don't add to the story and don't change anything about the film, etc.

The UC includes complete subplots, plot points, dialogue, and establishing shots that were entirely absent from the TC. These additions don't only enhance the overall film, but they also change things about the film entirely, flesh out the actions and motivations of key characters, adjust the overall pacing and flow of the plot, and also give new and/or greater meaning/weight to things we saw and heard in the TC. Some existing scenes from the TC are actually rearranged in this cut to better suit the originally intended story, and it seemed like 90% of the scenes we saw in the TC (mostly the non-action scenes) were extended in some way in the UC -- whether it be with one or two camera shots, a few bits of additional dialogue that stretch a scene by 30 seconds or so, or in some cases, several minutes of actual story content that was absent in the TC. Everything has more room to breathe and everything makes more sense.

My honest recommendation:

I don't think any of the regular posters in this thread should even bother watching the UC. Most of you already vehemently hate the movie as it was in theaters, and I feel confident in saying that none of you would come back here praising the UC version or even come back with moderately more positive opinions of it. So why waste 3 hours of your time half-watching something you know you most likely won't enjoy?

If you are fundamentally against the tone, subject matter, and/or characterizations found in the BvS TC, then I seriously doubt that a stronger, more fleshed out, and more competently told version of that story will be enough to please you or change your views regarding some of the film's content. However, if you're able to invest the time (3 hours is a lot of sitting time) and willing to view the film with at least somewhat of an open mind and full attention, I think the UC will (at the very least) surprise you and maybe give you a bit of a new appreciation for the overall "vision"...or possibly just make you dislike the film slightly less.

And for people who are film buffs and just love or study the art of film in general, I think you'll be fascinated and surprised by how different the UC is overall from the TC right from the start and all throughout up until the finish. You guys know I'm one of the few who actually liked and appreciated the TC as it was, but this new version has made the TC a prime example of how a horrible studio/director/editing hackjob and cut-down can either taint, hinder, or destroy the intended presentation of a film. There's no point in ever watching that theatrical version again, IMO.

But as far as the UC is concerned, it will be much more difficult (if not impossible) for some people to make the case that this version is a "half baked", poorly edited, poorly paced, thinly written, incoherent, incomprehensible mess of a film that is devoid of substance and incompetently directed -- as has been the narrative around here surrounding the TC.

 

[The Joker]

http://screenrant.com/batman-v-superman-ultimate-cut-response/

Even the people who made the movie know that the UC will only appeal to people who already liked it. There's not enough improvements in it to win people over who disliked the TC. The changes are largely superficial. Proper improvements would be able to win over the masses.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

There are films in which the Director's Cut have turned around my feelings on the film. Kingdom of Heaven is a good example. But even then, I didn't outright despise the theatrical versions. I've never seen a film I hated be improved enough so that I liked it.

So while I'm glad some people are happy that the UC might be the better cut of the film, I doubt I will enjoy it. I won't waste my time with it unless some of the other posters around here (The Joker, I SEE SPIDEY, etc.) that also hated it come on this board and say it changed their minds about the film. I'd give it a shot then.

 

[The Shape]

http://screenrant.com/batman-v-superman-ultimate-cut-response/

Even the people who made the movie know that the UC will only appeal to people who already liked it.

Lol, "the people who made the movie" aka one person who worked on the film, and said pretty much exactly what I said in my above post to you guys. "Most of you already vehemently hate the movie as it was in theaters, and I feel confident in saying that none of you would come back here praising the UC version or even come back with moderately more positive opinions of it."

This is in reference to people who hate the movie, and Fong could have easily said that for the same reasons I did using simple logic. Despite the UC being a stronger and more cohesive film, it's not like it magically replaces the tone, subject mater, or characterizations as seen in the TC -- which are all reasons why some people and fans disliked the film, among other things -- nor does it now tell a completely different story altogether.

There's not enough improvements in it to win people over who disliked the TC.

I'm not sure what you're basing this statement on, since you haven't even watched it and because I don't know how someone how someone could measure exactly how many improvements would be "enough" to win people over. I also never said or suggested in my last post that the UC would win people over, and I don't think anyone has said or believes that this UC would somehow convert every "hater" into a loving fan who adores the film.

However, it seems to be getting a pretty positive reception overall thus far (certainly more positive than the reactions from back in March) and I have seen people who didn't like the film but were "won over" by the new version. Most people can at least admit that it is a largely superior version of the film from a technical and story-telling standpoint, even if they took issue with some of the film's core elements ands story details.

Spoiler

"Scott Mendelson of Forbes did not think highly of Dawn of Justice during its theatrical release, but finds the new cut “a genuinely superior movie” that balances the Batman/Superman dynamic better than the theatrical version. “[H]owever ‘inappropriate’ it may be that an R-rated Superman movie even exists, this version shows that there was a version of Batman v Superman that made basic coherent sense and somewhat worked as a stand-alone feature film on its own complicated terms.”

"In a half-hour long episode of Collider Talk, a roundtable featuring The Death of Superman Lives director Jon Schnepp, Dennis Tzeng, Steve Weintraub, and Heroic Hollywood founder Umberto Gonzalez — many of whom strongly disliked Dawn of Justice — was a chorus of generally high-praise for the Ultimate Edition.

In the show, Schnepp says he was “blown away” by the Ultimate Edition. “Though it’s longer, it actually makes more sense and feels shorter. Everything about it feels better.”

“I think this movie is so much better,” echoes Weintraub. “It’s not a perfect movie, it clearly has some issues, but it’s so much better in the first two acts. It’s like night and day.” Tzeng was less impressed, but adds that the Ultimate Edition “flows better” with fewer abrupt cuts."

https://www.inverse.com/article/176...-edition-reviews-indicate-a-much-better-movie

But this is ultimately irrelevant to what I was talking about, which were my thoughts on the film and recommendation (or anti-recommendation) to you guys. (So you don't have to respond with a dozen links or quotes of people saying the UC still sucks and weren't won over )

It would have been cool if you responded to my post by saying something like, "Thanks for sharing your thoughts, but from what I've heard, I don't think it will be different or improved enough for me to want to watch it so I'll pass" or "Interesting, maybe I'll give it a shot when I have the time", instead of responding with a pointless quote from Larry Fong while trying to discredit my thoughts and dispel the idea that people might like this version more, which I wasn't even arguing.

The changes are largely superficial.

How are the following changes largely superficial?

Spoilers:

Spoiler

Lois meets up with her replacement photographer who, unknown to her, is actually a CIA undercover operative. They link up with General Amajagh's men who then blindfold them before they are taken to the General's secret village hideout. Lois's interview with the General is slightly longer in the extended cut. After the undercover operative is discovered and killed, the CIA panics and decides to send in an armed Reaper drone to finish off the General.

Meanwhile, the mercs acting under Lex's orders start to execute the General's bodyguards and burn their bodies. In the midst of gunfire and grenade explosions, the General grabs Lois and holds her hostage.

The waiting CIA ground force objects to the decision to send in the drone due to the presence of non-combatants (including Lois), which would result in collateral damage. The ground force then defies the CIA's orders to stand down and immediately proceeds to the General's hideout on horseback. Unfortunately, the faster airborne Reaper drone manages to overtake the ground force.

The mercs leave the General's hideout just in time as the armed drone approaches. The CIA launches a hellfire at the building where the General is hiding (and has taken Lois hostage). This is followed by two explosions as Superman destroys both the missile and the drone in mid-flight. The CIA are puzzled at the sudden loss of contact with their drone, but the mercs know that Superman has taken the bait.

Supes saves Lois, who later emerges unharmed from the building as the ground force arrives to secure the site. Wailing women rush out into the open village courtyard and they point angrily at the burned bodies that could no longer be given a proper burial, and up at the sky suggesting they blame Superman. Lois tries to comfort a grieving woman, but to no avail. She then picks up her notebook from the debris as the ground force looks on.

-

When Wayne Industries ex-employee Wallace Keefe's failed attempt to defile the Superman monument appears on TV, Daily Planet's Perry White wants to run a news headline with it. This prompts Clark to pay a visit to Kahina Ziri at her apartment in Gotham. However, he later finds out from the residents that she no longer stays there.

An elderly man warns Clark to stay off the streets at night because someone is angry and that he is hunting. "There's a new mean in him" -- heavily suggesting Batman wasn't always this brutal. The man then shows Clark a picture of the Dark Knight's signature trademark.

-

Meanwhile, over at the Daily Planet, Clark continues his research on the Bat-Brand that is considered as a death sentence for Gotham City inmates, specifically the notorious Blackgate Penitentiary.

The criminal who had been bat-branded earlier, is transferred out from the local inmate lockup to another prison. Much to the inmate's strong, but ultimately futile objections that he would most certainly be killed over there. Anatoli Knyazev, the lead Russian merc who works for Lex Luthor, arranges for the bat-branded inmate's killing to be carried out by another inmate during the prisoner visiting hours. Soon after, the latter acting on the Anatoli's instructions, proceeds to kill the marked inmate inside the prison exercise yard.

This ties in nicely with a later scene (which is also present in the theatrical cut) where Clark receives a package at the Daily Planet. Inside the package is the newspaper clipping on the Bat's brutality and photos of the now deceased marked inmate. This clearly shows that Clark is being manipulated by Lex Luthor through a series of well orchestrated events; which are carefully designed to get Supes, in the midst of his own troubles, to start turning against the Dark Knight.

Supes turning against Batman is a gradual process happening over a period of time. The extended cut gives Clark the opportunity to shine as an investigative reporter who does his own research and doesn't jump to conclusions quickly. However, it is his willingness to go beyond the extra mile to help those in need that Lex Luthor is counting on and it is exploited.

-

Clark pays a visit to the prison where the bat-branded inmate is killed and tries to get more information from the duty officers. As he is turned away at the counter, he spots the emotionally distraught girlfriend of the deceased inmate about to leave with a child in tow. She explains to Clark that the guards don't care about the well being of the inmates, and there is nothing Clark could do to change what has already happened. "Words won't stop men like that. Only fists"

This then drives Supes to confront the Dark Knight during the film's batmobile chase sequence.

-

Kahina Ziri, who has testified against Superman earlier on, is heading home to her new apartment when she spots the Russian merc, Anatoli Knyazev, hanging out in the street talking to the locals. Fearing for her life, Kahina pays a visit to Senator Finch. When the Senator hears a heated argument outside her office, she steps out and Kahina confesses that she is not entirely truthful during the initial hearing.

-

The merc, Anatoli Knyazev spots Kahina Ziri at the subway station waiting for the train to arrive. She feels that something is amiss and turns around to see Anatoli standing right behind her. He immediately pushes her onto the tracks of the incoming train and she is killed instantly.

These are a few of the changes that expand, alter, and add to the overall story. I'm genuinely shocked that this huge Clark Kent subplot was deleted. It's entirely essential

Generally speaking, though, I'm sure anyone here can imagine and understand how 30 minutes of additional content (most of which is plot driven and story-related) -- which includes entirely new scenes, new/different plot developments, extended scenes, additional dialogue and details, scenes arranged in a different order, and other minor changes/additions -- could have a pretty dramatic or fairly significant effect on any film outside of making surface-level and superficial changes.

Even things like pacing and editing (both greatly improved in the UC) are much more than simply superficial elements of filmmaking. They are such inherently vital elements to telling a story, giving a film its rhythm. Editing, in particular, can make or break a film entirely and there is a subliminal power to it. An editor can take the same 5 minutes of footage and create 5 different stories that feel and flow differently from each other, so it isn't at all surprising that the proper editing in the UC alone makes a pretty substantial difference in how the story unfolds and enhances some of the more important moments.

Anyway, getting back to my original point, you should definitely skip it and I'm sure you will. The Killing Joke will be out in a few weeks, anyway.

 

[The Shape]

There are films in which the Director's Cut have turned around my feelings on the film. Kingdom of Heaven is a good example. But even then, I didn't outright despise the theatrical versions. I've never seen a film I hated be improved enough so that I liked it.

So while I'm glad some people are happy that the UC might be the better cut of the film, I doubt I will enjoy it. I won't waste my time with it unless some of the other posters around here (The Joker, I SEE SPIDEY, etc.) that also hated it come on this board and say it changed their minds about the film. I'd give it a shot then.

Fair enough, and good call.

If anything, though, you'd probably at least appreciate watching it (or some of it) from a film-making standpoint by spotting all of the differences and seeing how it alters several some of the more important elements of the film. The first half or 2/3 of the film, in particular, plays quite differently in the UC.

 

[Brother Jack]

I'm sure it's a better, more coherent movie. But I'm also pretty sure it won't ameliorate the deeper issues I had with it; they're too much entrenched in the DNA of the film. Like, Luthor's plan might make a lot more sense but it's still a characterization I'm not into.

 

[The Shape]

Right, it won't erase those issues, at least not all of them.

I personally felt that even Luthor's characterization improved just a bit, as he's shown to be more ruthless, cunning, and far-reaching in his methods. He comes off as less of a wacky loon and is less annoying, I thought. Some of his scenes are among those that are re-arranged a bit.