The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 4

[I Am The Knight]

Yet the scene where Batman punched Harley in the face wasn't cut from SS.

Spoilers...

 

[Awest66]

I had reasonably high hopes for Suicide Squad. Paints an unflattering picture of the DCEU to have three movies fall below fresh percentage on RT.

 

[DACrowe]

Well, I actually enjoyed Suicide Squad, as messy and compromised as it is. Maybe entering with rock bottom expectations helps? But I thought the visual aesthetic was fun and Margot Robbie was perfect as Harley Quinn. I also loved Viola Davis in it and liked Will Smith who did well with his classic bravado.

The story is a mess, and edited into non-existence. The beginning is also top-heavy with WAY TOO MUCH exposition and an overabundance of pop songs that scream "TRYING HARD, MAN!!!"

But I even enjoyed the crazy mania that Jared Leto brought to the Joker. The tattoos were hideous. As was the writing, which reduced him to being nothing but a gangster at the club who has watched Scarface--and apparently circus tapes--way too many times. But the actual performance was fine. Although next to Ledger, it falls way short.

As a whole, it is a forgettable but amusing diversion. I would give it 7/10.

I could see disliking it, but I do suspect critics are getting a little over worked after how bad Batman and Superman were this year. There is a need now to just call this whole franchise awful. But at worst this is mediocre. Faint praise, but it is all I got.

 

[titansupes]

Just saw it, and pretty much agree with The Batman and DA Crowe. It's a very entertaining action movie, but nothing more. The narrative and editing are a mess. A certain line or two that was supposed to have an emotional effect (I guess) toward the end is cringe-worthy.

Deadshot-- Very good.
Harley-- Excellent.
Flagg, Waller, Boomerang-- Fine.
Katana-- Fine, but pointless.
Croc-- Cool, but pointless.
ElDiablo-- I just didn't buy him for some reason. Has a couple cool moments... and a couple weak ones.
Joker-- Cool, creepy/intense performance... Not the Joker.
Batman-- Couple of cool (super brief) cameo scenes. Not much to say, except that his first one is the thing that's come closest to making me crave a new Bat-solo.

 

[DACrowe]

Spoiler

By all accounts he comes across as an emo rockstar Joker fanboy rather than the Joker. His entire story is he just wants his gf back.

Well I do not think he was an emo rockstar. But I can confirm that is all he is interested in. He has no more motivation and is only seen lounging around hotel rooms and hanging out at strip clubs. So pretty disappointing and terrible writing.

 

[The Joker]

Well I do not think he was an emo rockstar. But I can confirm that is all he is interested in. He has no more motivation and is only seen lounging around hotel rooms and hanging out at strip clubs. So pretty disappointing and terrible writing.

This is like the antithesis of the Joker. So disappointing.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Here's my review. Be warned, spoilers below. Also, this is the first DCEU film I did not like.

Spoiler

I was really looking forward to Suicide Squad. Its a cool idea on paper, and you'd think it has the right ingredients to be a success. Bizarrely, this idea has been bungled in the execution.

The first major error is throwing us into the film with little introduction to these characters. The film's standout moments aren't its action sequences, but the two real character set pieces: a short conversation over drinks in the bar, and a series of dream sequences toward the end. But its too little. We needed more depth here. Too much time is based on the convoluted set-up for the villains of the piece and not enough is spent on the actual backstories of the members of Task Force X.

Harley and Joker are an absolute misfire on all counts, and it hurts to say that because I think Robbie and Leto are well cast. They are just given nothing to work with. There's no sense of the complexity of their relationship. There's no abusive lover backstory. Its reduced to something very generic, and the characters suffer for it. I need to see more of Leto's Joker to make any real judgment in that area (he's not in the film much). But his Joker lacks any real screen presence. I wanted to be wowed by him, but I felt mere ambivalence.

It feels like a whole movie is missing here. Why is Katana not given any backstory until the film is almost over? Same with El Diablo. Its an interesting backstory, but by the time we hear about it the story is done. Its like there is no third act, just a first, second, and then a final fight scene. The middle and end of the story are overly compressed. It smacks of studio interference and sloppy editing.

The visuals were great, Amanda Waller was terrific (right out of the JL animated series), I liked Enchantress and Deadshot. But they without a doubt fumbled the ball on this one, and its the weakest DCEU outing to date. A wasted opportunity that could have been something great, all but for a loss of nerve.

5/10

 

[The Joker]

^ Wow, its not a nice thought to think this could actually be weaker than BvS! For me SS was the glimmer of light for the DCEU after the two weak Snyder fests.

 

[Penguin]

I’m going to see it today and my hopes have been dashed, but I’m still willing to give it a bit of a chance.

 

[Kane52630]

Is it too late for them to reboot this whole thing?

 

[titansupes]

The worst thing is, and I don't know if it's because I'd read up about the hoopla beforehand, but you can really feel the whole "Studio demanded a tonal change in editorial and brought in trailer people" thing, especially in the first act. I enjoyed it, it's big, unique and frenetic... But it's just all over the place.

 

[AnneFan]

SS was weak. 5/10 from me. Dawn of Justice UC wipes the floor with it. No contest.

SS was a real disappointment. It could and should have been so much more.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

DCCU don't have it easy.

 

[The Joker]

With all this talk of studio meddling on the last two movies, WB are getting as bad as Sony was with Spider-Man.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

^Pretty much.

I enjoyed Suicide Squad to a certain extent, but there are definitely problems. I probably wouldn't see the theatrical version again.

Deadshot was a reminder of why Will Smith became a star.

Margot was good with what she was given.

Leto was a disappointment as Joker.

Killer Croc...was just there. Had a nice look, though.

Like Margot, Viola was good with what she was given.

Boomerang was funny.

Katana felt unnecessary.

El Diablo had a decent storyarc.

Flagg was pretty dull.

Enchantress was pretty much like a forgettable MCU villain.

I expect to view the movie like this.

 

[BatLobster]

My thoughts:

Spoiler

I'm honestly a bit surprised the people here seem to be digging it as much as they are. I certainly didn't hate the movie and there were some entertaining moments throughout...but to me this is very clearly a bad movie. Not that there is no enjoyment to be had, but the issues it has are pretty critical to me. A lot of jokes are on the nose and obvious, and elicited no laugh from my audience. A lot of the action feels hollow and is just there to be there. The villain and threat are painfully uninteresting. The story is a mess. The editing is hackjob. The needle drops grow old really fast...this movie tried to out-Guardians GOTG with the music and it just feels so try-hard and artificial. You can really sense that a trailer company got their mits on this thing and tried to make the movie feel like the trailers. In the process I really do think they sucked the life out of it. I don't blame Ayer entirely, in fact I do think given that he had only 6 weeks to write this thing and then got hijacked by the studio, it's somewhat of a miracle the movie wasn't even more of a mess. But there's no doubt about it in my mind, it's a weak movie that could and should have been so much better. The main cast deserved a much better movie for the good work they put in.

Smith, Robbie, Courtney, David and Hernandez are what made this watchable. They all do some great character work and are the bright spots in this movie.

Leto's Joker...wow. Everything from the take on the character, to the performance itself, to his role in this movie....man, I can't believe what an all-around miss this was. I honestly didn't think it was possible. This was basically on par with Eisenberg's Lex for me. I actually think I prefer Lex. What's worse is I do think the cut material very possibly hurt Harley's character, because you never felt like you had the insight into Harley/Joker's relationship that you needed. Also, I know this is a suspension of disbelief thing but I do wish they'd included a more solid reasoning to include non metas with the team. There seemed to be literally NO benefit to including someone as mentally unstable as Harley to the team who offers no special abilities whatsoever, and it just makes Waller look like an idiot. This is why I always kind of assumed the main mission would be related to The Joker somehow, as it would at least explain her presence.

Now, do I think this movie is worse than the likes of Thor 2 and some of the other mid-low tier Marvel films? Honestly, no I don't. The performances help elevate it a bit. But it's a shame that this movie at the end of the day just had an extremely weak, filler plot/threat. I was hoping this movie would really be a fresh air for the genre, and it only got halfway there. It's a generic superhero movie in bad guys' clothes, that's all. The best thing I can say about it is I enjoyed moments of it (the bar scene is the main standout to me). The worst thing I can say is that it did nothing to reinvigorate the genre for me, and just feels like another subpar entry that is contributing to the oversaturation.

 

[The Batman]

With all this talk of studio meddling on the last two movies, WB are getting as bad as Sony was with Spider-Man.

This desire to have shared universes is screwing studios up. Sony had already mismanaged Spidey before the success of Avengers, but the MCU's success made them screw things up even more.

 

[shauner111]

I think I may only see this thing Monday or Tuesday. Oh well!

 

[Kane52630]

This desire to have shared universes is screwing studios up. Sony had already mismanaged Spidey before the success of Avengers, but the MCU's success made them screw things up even more.

If anyone remembers back in the early days of the Hype when the MCU first started, there used to be a small group of hypesters who had their concerns and issues with a shared universe and how it can never work. How the studio will easily f*** it up and mismanage the whole thing...and I think we're seeing that now with WB.


I wanna say this is the worst case scenario that Marvel Studios was dreading when they started early on with Iron Man and TIH.

 

[The Batman]

Yup. Imagine if IM and TIH got the kind of response MOS and BvS did.

WB is lucky they had prior success with Superman and Batman. The MCU couldn't afford something like this back in their early years.

 

[titansupes]

Yep, lucky it's WB in general and they have deep pockets. Since Marvel Studios were being funded just about exclusively from bank loans back in the day, the whole thing may have collapsed with this kind of run. I think Feige might've even intimated that in an interview post-BvS.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I can't believe how terrible Jared Leto was as The Joker. I liked nothing about his performance/motivations. Doesn't deserved to be mentioned in the same breath as Romero, Nicholson and Ledger.

All my friends felt the same way last night. Just a shocking interpretation all around.

 

[shauner111]

Wow. This is getting crazy. I never expected the response to be this negative. I thought this movie would be good/solid at least. It was actually my only hope and now I'm getting nervous about the Batman movie if Leto is going to suck (I still hope I enjoy him more than you guys do). This Joker as a main villain might be a terrible idea.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I didn't think I'd see the day a movie with Joker in it would score rotten on Rotten Tomatoes, at least not this soon.
27% on the Tomatoemeter, equal to BvS at that, but with a lower average score.
4.7/10 vs 4.9/10

 

[DACrowe]

^ Wow, its not a nice thought to think this could actually be weaker than BvS! For me SS was the glimmer of light for the DCEU after the two weak Snyder fests.

I know we are entitled to different opinions, but I have to disagree with that. I hated Batman v Superman. It is without a doubt one of the worst superhero movies of all time. Both are incoherent messes that move with bizarre paces. But while Suicide Squad moves like we watched a long montage and then jump to the third act for the next 90 minutes, BvS is as dull as dishwater. Additionally, BvS offers ruinous interpretations of Batman, Superman, and Lex Luthor.

While the Joker is a disappointment in Suicide Squad, he could be easily improved upon in later films. He is not dead on arrival like Luthor. And characters like Harley Quinn and Amanda Waller are pretty perfect to me.

I think I will be in the minority with Suicide Squad. But I will say that at the very least there are scenes that entertain and characters who are fun to spend time with. Batman v Superman is Ayn Rand-loving crap from a filmmaker who fundamentally neither understands the world he is trying to build nor story structure and basic filmic storytelling staples like pacing or just freaking establishing shots.

Batman v Superman left me angry. Suicide Squad at most will be a forgettable disappointment to many, I suspect.