The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 4

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With all this talk of studio meddling on the last two movies, WB are getting as bad as Sony was with Spider-Man.

Well Robinov--the guy who lured Christopher Nolan, Clint Eastwood, Ben Affleck, and, (sigh), Zack Snyder to the studio--was fired the same summer as Man of Steel's release. So Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad are the first td.wo DC movies under new studio management from the Christopher Nolan, Bryan Singer, and even popular Zack Snyder days (300, Watchmen, Man of Steel).

I am getting the sense that in a rush to copy Marvel, they are actually far worse micromanagers than the reputation around Marvel ever suggest
 
MovieBob is not a fan.
I thought he might at least hate it less than BvS, doesn't seem like he said anything positive about it.
I'm 1 minute deep into his video.
 
Wow. This is getting crazy. I never expected the response to be this negative. I thought this movie would be good/solid at least. It was actually my only hope and now I'm getting nervous about the Batman movie if Leto is going to suck (I still hope I enjoy him more than you guys do). This Joker as a main villain might be a terrible idea.

For what it's worth, Leto's Joker seems to be you either like it or you don't. There are people out there that dug it, and that goes for the movie too. So go in with an open mind, who knows what you'll make of it. As someone that wasn't a huge fan of the movie, I can also say that I think this movie will probably have a better audience response than BvS got.

And I will say I'd still be interested to see this Joker and Harley in a better movie, with better material to work with. I may not be a big fan of Leto's performance, but I also recognize that his version didn't have the amazing dialogue that Heath had to work with, the amazing score that raised the tension whenever he was around, etc. So the overall impression was just much less memorable, and it doesn't help that I'm not a huge fan of the blinged out modern Scarface/rock star take on The Joker to begin with.
 
Things are a little bit odd right now with the reactions. It seems like a lot of the people that HATED BvS (like I did) think Suicide Squad is okay or even pretty good, while a lot of those that liked BvS find it disappointing.

So maybe there is hope for me after all.
 
I thought it was fine overall. My main criticisms:

- Awkward editing (It's easy to see the internal conflict with the studio)
- Terrible pacing... certain moments drag on for far too long and many beats stop the movie dead.
- Leto's Joker
- Cheesy villian
- Lengthy/expository backstories for most characters.
 
Things are a little bit odd right now with the reactions. It seems like a lot of the people that HATED BvS (like I did) think Suicide Squad is okay or even pretty good, while a lot of those that liked BvS find it disappointing.

So maybe there is hope for me after all.
Yeah, I noticed that too.
 
Leto was atrocious and it feels like the BvS days where I can't even get that off my chest without someone condescendingly telling me that I'm wrong. And i enjoyed the movie for the most part!

once again, this place is a safe haven.
 
Leto was atrocious and it feels like the BvS days where I can't even get that off my chest without someone condescendingly telling me that I'm wrong. And i enjoyed the movie for the most part!

once again, this place is a safe haven.

Haha, I love that this thread has become an unofficial discussion thread for the DCEU, or whatever they're calling it. I don't even visit the separate sections dedicated to the individual movies.
 
I am getting the sense that in a rush to copy Marvel, they are actually far worse micromanagers than the reputation around Marvel ever suggest

This is obvious to anyone except the hardcore DC fans.
 
I gave so many reasons why I enjoyed what i saw for the most part, but never mind all that. Instead, everyone is absolutely fixated on the one thing I had a serious problem with.

That's basically the online fan community of the DC Extended Universe in a nutshell. Hopefully no one starts a petition to have my account banned or anything like that, because I enjoy the level headed discussions in this particular thread.
 
Leto was atrocious and it feels like the BvS days where I can't even get that off my chest without someone condescendingly telling me that I'm wrong. And i enjoyed the movie for the most part!

once again, this place is a safe haven.
The unpopular film opinion thread is another cool place.
 
marvel's micromanaging has both worked (Ant-Man) and fell flat at times (Age of Ultron)

but not to the point where they completely butcher the cut of a movie and need to rectify things by releasing an extended cut. They run a tight ship over there, but only because they care about the characters and want to see them done justice on the screen.
 
Okay, I am being unfair. Most hardcore DC fans are just as baffled and enraged at the cluster**** as we are. It's just these people that came about with MOS that call themselves DC fans. These people that berate others, incite conspiracy theories and make stupid petitions to shut down dissenting opinions. The Trumpers of comic book fandom.
 
Okay, I am being unfair. Most hardcore DC fans are just as baffled and enraged at the cluster**** as we are. It's just these people that came about with MOS that call themselves DC fans. These people that berate others, incite conspiracy theories and make stupid petitions to shut down dissenting opinions. The Trumpers of comic book fandom.

the worshippers of the church of snyder
 
I don't really have much to say that hasn't already been said dozens of times by other people.

I enjoyed the movie for what it was and had fun with it. It's obviously apparent that the film was altered/edited/butchered into this theatrical version. The ****** editing is pretty glaring at times, especially in the second half of the movie with things like the Squad taking a break in a bar talking about things that don't make any sense. Still, I didn't feel that the choppy editing made the entire film a completely irredeemable mess, and it was even serviceable at times due to the frenetic, zany energy that oozes from the film at times.

The characters really carry the film, and at times, it felt like I was watching an episode of BTAS from the perspective of the villains, with Batman and the Joker both used minimally as background/peripheral characters. That was definitely something unique and different than what we're used to, and part of why I think some people are *****ing about The Joker's role in the film. We've never seen him used in live-action in a secondary role to the main story, mostly in flashbacks of him and Harley.

I actually really dug what I saw of Leto's Joker and wanted more. It's hard to get a real gauge on him via SS because his role in the film (or at least this version of the film) doesn't call for him to do the kinds of things we're used to seeing from the Joker. We virtually never see him doing anything on his own, or participating in a truly heinous, villainous plot against anyone/anything. He's really only there to serve Harley's storyline. If one can recognize and understand his purpose in the film and why he was utilized in this way, I think it works in the film's favor, but I do wish his other scenes hadn't been cut.

At the end of the day, this was really just a taste of the Joker. For the first time in a live-action movie (aside from having a minor role), he wasn't the ONLY crazy, over-the-top central character in a film. He didn't have Batman or a central protagonist to antagonize or play off of. He wasn't meant to pose the kind of threat we've seen of him in previous solo outings. His scenes were brief and fleeting, as opposed to some of the long, intense Joker scenes in TDK. Thinking logically in these terms, it's easy to understand why he isn't the typical scene-stealing, "stand out" that The Joker has been and will be when we see him as a central antagonist again.

I dug Enchantress early on, but her and the other "villain" were just awful. The middle part of the movie really drags and I was actually the most engrossed in the first 40 minutes as we were introduced to the Squad and premise of the film. Margot Robbie was the stand-out for me, probably. She was fantastic.

Overall, I guess I'd give the movie itself a 6.5 - 7. Could've been better, for sure. Could have been worse, also, but still enjoyable. To me, SS really felt like the first real "DC universe" movie connected to the films preceding it and films to follow, while still being able to stand on its own.
 
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Okay, I am being unfair. Most hardcore DC fans are just as baffled and enraged at the cluster**** as we are. It's just these people that came about with MOS that call themselves DC fans. These people that berate others, incite conspiracy theories and make stupid petitions to shut down dissenting opinions. The Trumpers of comic book fandom.

I never used to put posters on ignore....until MOS came out.

I will say that the positive of all this is that it weeds people out. It's interesting seeing some posters become really irritating once they become a fan of something other posters don't like.
 
I still don't think I've ever used the ignore function in all my time here. Came close with 'zryson', though.
 
Reminds me of Micky Rourke being unhappy about his role being chopped down in Iron Man 2.
 
I don't blame him for feeling disheartened about it. It's gotta be frustrating.

The trendy thing over the past few days is to mock the "method" acting Leto supposedly did for the role. "THIS is what Leto did all that weird **** for?" "There was no reason for him to go so hardcore with the method acting for such a tiny role." "All of Leto's crazy on-set antics were for nothing and didn't make him any better."

However, I believe Leto when he says they did a lot of exploration and experimentation on-set, and probably worked really hard to make a great Joker interpretation. With an apparently large chunk of his scenes cut from the film and his role having been reduced to a true background/peripheral character for Harley in this version, it's easy to imagine that some of his best, most intense, and intimidating scenes were left on the cutting room floor.

It's gotta be especially frustrating since this is such an iconic character and a one-in-a-lifetime role for any actor, and he'd obviously want every opportunity to make a lasting impression, show what he can do, and what he uniquely brings to the role. Now we're left to wait for his potential next, full appearance to see a more complete take of The Joker from him.
 
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His comments about death seem a tad weird.

He's a fantastic actor, and perhaps the deleted scenes would have given us a more fully formed Joker... but as it stands in the final product, this was a swing and a miss from all involved.

Don't say, ''Oh, but in a director's cut...'' or ''It was never meant as a proper re-introduction...''

This is the new version of The Joker that Ayer seemed happy to release and we have to take it for what it is.
 
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Update on deleted scenes.

In early cuts, the movie's opening detailed June Moon's posession by Enchantress in real tome. Reshoots reshuffled the scene to be later in the movie in flashback form in favour of a new opening centered on Deadshot."

"Deadshot in the prison cell, watching the rain fall and thinking about his daughter."

"El Diablo observing the flame of a lit match, before putting it out due to his vow to no longer use his powers."

"El Diablo being escorted to a training center by being placed in a tube that fills with water to quel his flames, and then unceremoniously dropped onto the ground."

"Early interviews showed Captain Boomerang's racism and sexism, but the movie is light on examples of such behaviour, which have apparently been deleted. Most of them were reportedly directed at Katana, to whom Boomerang is attracted to."

"Early reports indicated more backstory for Killer Croc, revealing that he entire life as a social outcast due to his physical appearancr and has convinced himself that he is beautiful in his own way. Croc crossed paths with Batman while working as muscle-for-hire for numerous Gotham's crime bosses, while secretly planning to take over one day. There were also scenes displaying his affinity for making sculptures out of discarded materials. Aside from jokes about Croc viewing himself as 'beautiful,' one of these were retained in the final cut."

"Also deleted was a scene where he becomes sick at the helicopter escort to Midway City, throws up half-digested pieces of goat, and then eats them again, disgusting the nearby Navy Seals."

"Early cuts reportedly included a passing reference to Slipknot being serial rapist, likely to further paint him as unsympathetic to the audience ahead of his own death."

"More scenes of Rick Flag and June Moon's romantic relationship, including him reading the files of the Suicide Squad recruits after Waller delivers them to him."

"Another scene where Flag and Moon are out on a date."

"Extended scene of Joker interrogating Captain Griggs, including the line, "I can't wait to show you my toys," which was in every trailer, but was removed from the movie."

"Joker and his men escaping after shooting up a restaurant. Harley, who is already affiliated with the Joker, follows them on a motorcycle and intercepts their car. Joker bangs his head against the glass in frustration."

"Joker and Harley then get into a fight, which ends with Harley pointing a gun at Joker's head. Joker sweet-talks Harley into lowering the gun, charming her, then backhands her across the face. Afterwards he sweet-talks her again and they kiss."

"Extended Ace Chemicals scene where Harley jumps into the chemicals. More bits of dialogue from Joker."

"Extended Batmobile chase scene with more interaction between Joker and Harley. One of the examples, presented in all the trailers, is the Joker punching the roof of his car."

"Harley using her baseball bat as a mock gun to play shoot at invisible foes."

"Extended scene of Joker breaking into the nanobomb manufacture facility to arrange for Harley's neck-bomb to be disabled."

"More interactions between Harley and Boomerang. Early cuts apparently included her really disliking him despite growing affectionate to all the other members of the squad."

"Extended bar scene with Harley taking everyone's orders. Deadshot calls for a shot, Katana wants whiskey, Croc and Boomerang settle for beer, Harley asks Diablo wants and he prefers water which she jokes, "is a good idea." The scene was featured in the trailers, but in the movie it cuts directly to Deadshot's speech about them all almost pulling the mission off."

"Removed several scenes with the Joker to repaint his relationship with Harley as more loving rather than abusive."

"Joker and Harley get into an argument after he rescues her in the hijacked helicopter. In early cuts he reportedly pushes her out to kill her, then the helicopter gets shot down. This was apparently reworked into the helicopter getting shot down first and Joker pushing her out to save her."

"Joker returns during the final battle in the subway station, face half-burnt from the helicopter crash, which apparently leads to a brief altercation with the Squad. He calls for Harley to escape with him but she refuses for once in order to help her friends, and the Joker escapes after throwing a live grenade at the group to cover his own escape."
 
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