The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 6

[Kane52630]

How is that even a legit question?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

My question is this. In 10 years do you think we can see one of the Nolan brothers taking on this technology to make Bale, Oldman and possibly Caine/Freeman look...15 or 20 years younger for a new Batman prequel?

Doubtful.
And the arc they made is properly concluded, no inner details necessary to fill in blanks.

 

[shauner111]

How is that even a legit question?

Glad you're still acting like a jerk around here Kane. Keep it up!

 

[shauner111]

Doubtful.
And the arc they made is properly concluded, no inner details necessary to fill in blanks.

Jonah Nolan in 2014..

"To be continued somewhere farther down the line?" Nolan suggested. "Maybe."

The point is nothing is really necessary but people have ideas and things like this happen. Better Call Saul wasn't necessary but it's damn good and it happened. A Gus Fring show may happen as well. A Han Solo or Rogue One story is also something that didn't need to happen and here we are.

 

[Kane52630]

Glad you're still acting like a jerk around here Kane. Keep it up!

 

[BatLobster]

Ultimately I think the trilogy should be left as a standalone thing, or at the very most any additional stories in that universe could be told in Elseworlds comics or animation, similar to how I feel about the Burtonverse. I have pretty strong doubts they'll ever touch it again in any capacity.

HOWEVER...since I'm not above indulging in fan fiction...if the Nolanverse were to ever pick up again cinematically, this is roughly how I'd do it:

- The movie is set 16 years after TDKR, both in canon and in real life.

- Treat it not necessarily as a 4th tacked on movie, but the start of a new trilogy ala Force Awakens.

-Major retcon: Talia never actually died in the truck (would explain the awkward "death" ). She somehow managed to escape, and was carrying Bruce Wayne's child. She ultimately dies during childbirth several months later. This would be illustrated via flashbacks in the first act of the film, ala Begins.

-Damien is the new protagonist of the film. He's 16 years old, and has been raised by remnants of the LoS (almost like a small cult at this point), and has been brainwashed and groomed his whole life that he's the one who will fulfill Ra's al Ghul's destiny, bring the LoS back from the brink and restore balance. The first act of the movie would be about him "waking up", rejecting them and embarking on a quest to find his father (who's identity been kept a secret from him). Would have some nonlinear storytelling very much meant to mirror the first act of BB.

-Meanwhile Blakeman is now a veteran as Gotham's new protector, but has been recently struggling with whether or not he's done right by the legacy, and if he's perpetuating an endless cycle of violence (escalation) by continuing vigilantism in Gotham. The doubt has caused him to slowly be consumed by the monster.

That's basically all I've got, haha. Just a jumping off point, but in super broad strokes I see the movie becoming about a struggle between Damien and Blake over who is the rightful heir to the Bat-legacy. I think eventually they'd have to team up to take down the main villain of the film (Riddler? shrug), and Blake would rediscover his sense of purpose in "taming" Damien, and Damien's arc would be about growing into the more compassionate qualities of his father and Thomas Wayne and tempering his more extreme tendencies from his al Ghul side.

I wouldn't even have Bruce Wayne appear at all in the film, but maybe the "Joker card" at the end of the movie would be them receiving a message from Bruce that confirms once and for all that he's alive and out there, watching.

From there the series could sort of be an amalgamation of "Legacy" storylines where you have a bit of Morrison's Batman & Robin mixed in with some Batman Beyond with Bruce getting more involved behind the scenes. You could also probably flip the story and have Blake more as the protagonist and have Damien be an actual villain, but I kind of liked the idea of starting fresh with a brand new protagonist we've never seen before.

Again, pure fan fiction. Truthfully I don't think it'd be wise to touch it, the downside seems way higher than any potential benefit, but IF Jonathan Nolan actually wanted to revisit the universe I believe moving the story forward and making it about legacy would be the only proper way to do it. They'd just have to be careful not to go too far with the Episode VII/'requel' approach and make it too much of a remake of Begins.

Sigh...look what you've done to me shauner!

 

[I Am The Knight]

How is that even a legit question?

 

[shauner111]

What-if scenarios are fun Kane. Don't be so grumpy.

Ultimately I think the trilogy should be left as a standalone thing, or at the very most any additional stories in that universe could be told in Elseworlds comics or animation, similar to how I feel about the Burtonverse. I have pretty strong doubts they'll ever touch it again in any capacity.

HOWEVER...since I'm not above indulging in fan fiction...if the Nolanverse were to ever pick up again cinematically, this is roughly how I'd do it:

- The movie is set 16 years after TDKR, both in canon and in real life.

- Treat it not necessarily as a 4th tacked on movie, but the start of a new trilogy ala Force Awakens.

-Major retcon: Talia never actually died in the truck (would explain the awkward "death" ). She somehow managed to escape, and was carrying Bruce Wayne's child. She ultimately dies during childbirth several months later. This would be illustrated via flashbacks in the first act of the film, ala Begins.

-Damien is the new protagonist of the film. He's 16 years old, and has been raised by remnants of the LoS (almost like a small cult at this point), and has been brainwashed and groomed his whole life that he's the one who will fulfill Ra's al Ghul's destiny, bring the LoS back from the brink and restore balance. The first act of the movie would be about him "waking up", rejecting them and embarking on a quest to find his father (who's identity been kept a secret from him). Would have some nonlinear storytelling very much meant to mirror the first act of BB.

-Meanwhile Blakeman is now a veteran as Gotham's new protector, but has been recently struggling with whether or not he's done right by the legacy, and if he's perpetuating an endless cycle of violence (escalation) by continuing vigilantism in Gotham. The doubt has caused him to slowly be consumed by the monster.

That's basically all I've got, haha. Just a jumping off point, but in super broad strokes I see the movie becoming about a struggle between Damien and Blake over who is the rightful heir to the Bat-legacy. I think eventually they'd have to team up to take down the main villain of the film (Riddler? shrug), and Blake would rediscover his sense of purpose in "taming" Damien, and Damien's arc would be about growing into the more compassionate qualities of his father and Thomas Wayne and tempering his more extreme tendencies from his al Ghul side.

I wouldn't even have Bruce Wayne appear at all in the film, but maybe the "Joker card" at the end of the movie would be them receiving a message from Bruce that confirms once and for all that he's alive and out there, watching.

From there the series could sort of be an amalgamation of "Legacy" storylines where you have a bit of Morrison's Batman & Robin mixed in with some Batman Beyond with Bruce getting more involved behind the scenes. You could also probably flip the story and have Blake more as the protagonist and have Damien be an actual villain, but I kind of liked the idea of starting fresh with a brand new protagonist we've never seen before.

Again, pure fan fiction. Truthfully I don't think it'd be wise to touch it, the downside seems way higher than any potential benefit, but IF Jonathan Nolan actually wanted to revisit the universe I believe moving the story forward and making it about legacy would be the only proper way to do it. They'd just have to be careful not to go too far with the Episode VII/'requel' approach and make it too much of a remake of Begins.

Sigh...look what you've done to me shauner!

As compelling as that was, my problem is with Talia being about 5 months pregnant in her final moments in TDKR.

Talia not actually dying in that truck is...quite an interesting thought. I'm not a Damien fan from the comics, but that character could work really well in this universe where he struggles with the Wayne side and the Al Ghul side like you said. Maybe that would work better in a comic or animation where you can use the Joker as the main villain, instead of the Riddler who should be used for smaller stories.

The reason why i would avoid doing a Blake film is..
1) An original character like that would probably work better in the form of a television series
2) You pretty much are handcuffed to an ending that includes Blake passing the torch to another younger character. Most likely another original one too. On and on it goes. Too many original characters made from scratch (unless you use a Damien who is not only from the source material but he can become the next Batman). Will there ever be an end to this series, because once you open up the can of worms known as Damien's Batman...people will want to see HIS journey. So a thematic ending left to the imagination works out for the best.

Good idea though. I rarely hear of Damien Wayne continuing the legacy when people bring up a possible sequel. I'd have Damien as the protagonist in the first half and then make him the antagonist in the second half, with Blake as the character everyone is rooting for by Act 2. The end is where Damien realizes what he might become, or what he already has become, and changes his ways. Takes the torch, and Bruce returns to train him Batman Beyond style. Blake retires or dies at the end of the "film" and this wakes up Bruce from his happy slumber. Oh and, where's Gordon? Alfred? Lucius? Who's alive and dead?

I loved Force Awakens, so i wouldn't mind the similarities to the very first film of the series Batman Begins. Makes sense, especially if you have Bruce's child who happens to be an Al Ghul too.

My Catwoman or "Selina Kyle" as i would call it, television series...is still something i'd LOVE to see. Jonah could be the showrunner. He was the one championing Selina in the first place, and Chris himself gave his blessing for a Catwoman spin-off, so i don't understand the criticisms behind this idea. To me it makes the most sense.

 

[BatLobster]

You're right...it's probably way too much to ask the audience to believe that not only did Talia survive, but she was also 5 months pregnant AND her unborn child survived that truck crash. Kind of a big problem to have that as the jumping off place for a story, lol.

My other thought was to go even more Force Awakens on it and go with a female protagonist- Bruce and Selina's child Helena (aka Huntress). I think pretty much any version of the post-TDKR story that I'd be interested in seeing would be a mixture of a Nolanized Bat-family story, Batman Beyond and maybe a dash of Batman, Inc., regardless of which legacy characters were in there. I feel like it would be the way to keep the story rooted in the concept of Batman as a symbol, and seeing how the future generation views and inherits that symbol in various ways. You could also have lots of drama within the Bat-family driving the story and focus on that more, rather than trying to keep one-upping with the villains.

Personally I like the idea of having Damian in the mix just cause I think the concept of a Wayne/Al Ghul child has a lot of dramatic potential and would probably fit in nicely after a trilogy that bookended with LoS/al Ghul centric movies. You'd really be able to take what Ra's said in Begins about fearing your own capacity to do "great or terrible things" to the next level with a character like that who's torn between two legacies. That said, you're totally right...it'd be a stretch to shoehorn him into the story without losing all credibility given the way TDKR ended.

Also I would say...Alfred, probably dead. Lucius and Gordon, probably still alive but both retired and more in the background- possibly with their children being players in the story.

It's all nothing more than a thought experiment for me, so thanks for entertaining it. I see your point about the story running into a loop where someone's always passing the mantle down and it gets repetitive. The ending probably is best left to the imagination. Then again, I always felt the ending to Return of the Jedi was pretty satisfying, and here we are again with Rebel-like characters fighting a new Empire-like organization.

As for the Selina series...I wouldn't be opposed to something like that, but I feel the chances of that happening might be even slimmer than another movie some day. Realistically, Jonah is going to be extremely busy with Westworld for the next decade. The time to launch a show like that would've been right after TDKR, unfortunately I think that ship has sailed.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Last year's election made TDKR a better movie for me. I always found it sorta suspect how easily Gotham was duped by Bane's shallow words.

But looking at Trump...man, Bane was far more eloquent than that. And he had an accent. which Americans are predisposed to taking more seriously.

 

[redfirebird2008]

A Gus Fring show may happen as well.

Would love to see that. The Gus aspect of Breaking Bad is awesome.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah...I think we're due for an entire re-dub of TDKR where all of Bane's lines are replaced with Trump quotes...

[YT]BgwWuoxljMY[/YT]

........

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I wonder how high the income inequality was in TDKR's America that the proletariat reacted so violently. I remember Nolan making mention of it in interviews; too bad he didn't utilize it more in the film itself.

 

[The Joker]

I always found it sorta suspect how easily Gotham was duped by Bane's shallow words.

Were they really though? Most of them were either captured for judgement, or huddling around fire drums, or hiding scared in their houses (those who were not kicked out of their home). Only the poor and lower class seemed to join in because they got a chance to stick it to the rich.

But yeah if America can vote for Donald Trump as President, then by comparison Gothamites being duped by Bane seems a lot less unrealistic.

 

[shauner111]

You're right...it's probably way too much to ask the audience to believe that not only did Talia survive, but she was also 5 months pregnant AND her unborn child survived that truck crash. Kind of a big problem to have that as the jumping off place for a story, lol.

My other thought was to go even more Force Awakens on it and go with a female protagonist- Bruce and Selina's child Helena (aka Huntress). I think pretty much any version of the post-TDKR story that I'd be interested in seeing would be a mixture of a Nolanized Bat-family story, Batman Beyond and maybe a dash of Batman, Inc., regardless of which legacy characters were in there. I feel like it would be the way to keep the story rooted in the concept of Batman as a symbol, and seeing how the future generation views and inherits that symbol in various ways. You could also have lots of drama within the Bat-family driving the story and focus on that more, rather than trying to keep one-upping with the villains.

Personally I like the idea of having Damian in the mix just cause I think the concept of a Wayne/Al Ghul child has a lot of dramatic potential and would probably fit in nicely after a trilogy that bookended with LoS/al Ghul centric movies. You'd really be able to take what Ra's said in Begins about fearing your own capacity to do "great or terrible things" to the next level with a character like that who's torn between two legacies. That said, you're totally right...it'd be a stretch to shoehorn him into the story without losing all credibility given the way TDKR ended.

Also I would say...Alfred, probably dead. Lucius and Gordon, probably still alive but both retired and more in the background- possibly with their children being players in the story.

It's all nothing more than a thought experiment for me, so thanks for entertaining it. I see your point about the story running into a loop where someone's always passing the mantle down and it gets repetitive. The ending probably is best left to the imagination. Then again, I always felt the ending to Return of the Jedi was pretty satisfying, and here we are again with Rebel-like characters fighting a new Empire-like organization.

As for the Selina series...I wouldn't be opposed to something like that, but I feel the chances of that happening might be even slimmer than another movie some day. Realistically, Jonah is going to be extremely busy with Westworld for the next decade. The time to launch a show like that would've been right after TDKR, unfortunately I think that ship has sailed.

And what's great about this new Star Wars trilogy is the new generation and how they relate or don't relate to the past generation...and what's in store for them moving forward. So they can totally go in a new direction with Blake, Barbara, Helena, an older Jim Gordon in his 70's, older Bruce being treated the same way Luke Skywalker is being treated now, etc.

Lucius could be dead or retired. Alfred, yeah, dead for sure. Sarah Essen (i always think of Maria Bello for some reason) would be a good addition.

Westworld for the next decade?? Wow. The time should have been right after Rises for a Catwoman series or movie, but i figured Westworld wouldn't go on for that long so there was always an opening for something with Hathaway. If true, then i guess the ship has sailed for sure. That's too bad, but the heart of this trilogy was always Bruce and the Bat symbol anyway so it's no big deal.

Most will disagree with me on this, but my dream would be an announcement that Jonah Nolan or Chris have decided to make another Batman movie set after TDK. Or a movie where Bruce is keeping an eye on Gotham without ever putting on the cowl. It will NEVER happen but the internet would explode and everyone here who hates the idea would be jumping for joy if it was announced lol. Don't even act like you wouldn't. We would see Bruce building the cave, keeping an eye on Gotham, the clean energy project, more focus on businessman Wayne, the origins of the Dent Act, the last of the mob, getting deeper into Bruce's psyche and nightmares, Bruce acquiring the clean slate, Jim's private life, how they're both dealing with the lie. But the story would have to be strong enough. I think Bale would jump at the chance to play this character again, unfortunately nobody has the time or the balls to mess with a concept like that.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Were they really though? Most of them were either captured for judgement, or huddling around fire drums, or hiding scared in their houses (those who were not kicked out of their home).

Just like almost 50% of America. Stayed up in their houses and did not show up to vote.

Only the poor and lower class seemed to join in because they got a chance to stick it to the rich.

Sounds like the rust belt states that won trump the whit house.

 

[shauner111]

Rises kinda creeps me out nowadays.

 

[The Joker]

Just like almost 50% of America. Stayed up in their houses and did not show up to vote.

Sounds like the rust belt states that won trump the whit house.

Neither of these points has anything to do with your statement that Gotham was duped by Bane's words, when most of them were not shown to be duped.

Bane had most of Gotham scared, not duped. Most of America abstaining from voting is not analogous to most of Gotham falling for Bane's lies (which they didn't). If it was then most of America would have voted for Trump instead of abstaining. Even then from what I understand Clinton, not Trump, won the popular vote by nearly 3 million.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Most of America wasn't duped by Trump either. But enough of them were to win him the vote. Just as enough Gothamites were duped by Bane to start massive riots all over the city. When I said duped I certainly did not mean all of them.

 

[The Joker]

Between the poor people, and the legion of inmates he set free from Blackgate, that's more enough people to start riots in the streets. I wouldn't even count the inmates since they're criminals anyway and saw Bane's revolution as a shot at freedom and a chance to be bad.

 

[BatLobster]

They definitely were pretty blatantly going for a dictator/demagogue vibe with Bane. I remember thinking his Blackgate speech felt pretty Hitler-esque in the way it was delivered, with all the bombast and shouting.

I'm not at all saying Trump = Hitler, as I think Trump is his own unique beast in many ways, but he does fit that basic demagogue template.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Hence why I wondered just how big the wealth gap in Gotham had become. Nolan didn't go into detail (and I wouldn't expect him to go that deep), but it must've been pretty bad.

 

[The Joker]

That exchange between the National Guard soldier and Bane's lackey on the bridge was also very telling. He pointed out they didn't have enough men to stop 12 million people from leaving.

Bane had Gotham hostage and was ruling by fear. His little revolution only reached a select circle of Gothamites. The lower class/poor.

 

[BatLobster]

Hence why I wondered just how big the wealth gap in Gotham had become. Nolan didn't go into detail (and I wouldn't expect him to go that deep), but it must've been pretty bad.

I figure it had to be pretty bad, if you have a situation where Joe Truck Driver is willing to help out in a terrorist hit on a stock exchange to help someone they thought was leading a revolution.

Not saying that every poor Gothamite would've been willing to do stuff like that, clearly not, but I got the sense from the movie that there was a lot of resentment bubbling under the surface towards the elites. A lot of that was reflected in Selina's character.

 

[The Joker]

I figure it had to be pretty bad, if you have a situation where Joe Truck Driver is willing to help out in a terrorist hit on a stock exchange to help someone they thought was leading a revolution.

Wasn't Joe Truck Driver working for Daggett? Didn't Daggett say that Bane had his contructions crews working 24 hours a day? Didn't Blake find Joe Truck Driver at a construction site where he found the explosives they were mixing in with the cement? And we know Daggett was in on the Stock Exchange hit and probably lent Joe Truck Driver to look like an innocent obstacle to the Cops by blocking them off with his truck.