BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

[roach]

If anything, blame Jeff Robinov for making an outrageous claim before his exit like "MOS is going to be our biggest earner of all time." For a non-sequel, I don't know how anyone can see $290 million Domestically and $657 million globally as a failure. I'm no box office expert, but that's enough to warrant a sequel if you ask me.

thats why I don't think WB is/was disappointed and it was more of Robinov sticking it to a company he had a grievance with.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

JL does seem like the more appropriate setting for Amanda Waller. That's when the metahuman problem really gets out of hand.

 

[Vaibow]

That's pretty much it.

They just want to cash in on Batman's popularity and the 'avenger model' - putting those two together is a win win situation... plus - if Batman wasn't involved, people would be saying 'hey- why isn't batman involved' so it's a tough one.. also, rebooting batman, in his own origin movie, is too soon, so introduce batman, then in couple years he can do his own solo movie where a flash back scene helps set up his own origin

 

[TheNextNolan22]

thats why I don't think WB is/was disappointed and it was more of Robinov sticking it to a company he had a grievance with.

That's what I think. Robinov has always been out-spoken.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

You could view it as a side thing much like Avengers isn't strictly a direct sequel to Iron Man, Thor, or Cap films that came before it.

This is it.

 

[Mr. Dent]

I just think it would be better for a DCCU to not be seen aping anything, narrative wise, from the MCU. It feels reactive. I'd keep Cadmus/Waller or the like for a JL sequel or in a build up to a JL sequel. But that's just me.

Them making a cinematic universe at all is inherently reactive.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Kevin Smith gives his reasoning why WB should call Man of Steel "Batman vs Superman.":

“The beauty of Batman is we aspire to be a Batman, because Superman you can’t aspire to. We can never be an alien from some other world with god-like powers, but Batman we can all be in some small way. The idea of I’m just a guy putting on a suit trying to do the right thing, and then if you take that guy and pair him up with a god, you have a battle of a man versus a god. And somehow that man is going to hold his own. We all know that he cannot beat Superman physically, because none of this stuff is real. But if you buy into it, and realize they can’t beat each other, you respect the fact that Batman is going to have to beat Superman by his wits. He’s going to have to be as smart as possible to defeat the undefeatable foe so that means probably developing some form of Kryptonite or something like that. So that’s what would draw people into the web of intrigue of a Batman Vs. Superman.

I can kind of see where he's coming from. Calling it "World's Finest" would definitely resonate with comic fans, but not so much with general moviegoers. Unless, of course, World's Finest is a subtitle and it's really called "Superman/Batman: World's Finest or Batman/Superman: World's Finest."

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Them making a cinematic universe at all is inherently reactive.

HAN SOLO: "Keep your distance Chewie... But don't look like you're trying to keep your distance.... I don't know... FLY CASUALLY!!"

 

[Ryudoz]

Kevin Smith gives his reasoning why WB should call Man of Steel "Batman vs Superman.":

“The beauty of Batman is we aspire to be a Batman, because Superman you can’t aspire to. We can never be an alien from some other world with god-like powers, but Batman we can all be in some small way. The idea of I’m just a guy putting on a suit trying to do the right thing, and then if you take that guy and pair him up with a god, you have a battle of a man versus a god. And somehow that man is going to hold his own. We all know that he cannot beat Superman physically, because none of this stuff is real. But if you buy into it, and realize they can’t beat each other, you respect the fact that Batman is going to have to beat Superman by his wits. He’s going to have to be as smart as possible to defeat the undefeatable foe so that means probably developing some form of Kryptonite or something like that. So that’s what would draw people into the web of intrigue of a Batman Vs. Superman.

I can kind of see where he's coming from. Calling it "World's Finest" would definitely resonate with comic fans, but not so much with general moviegoers. Unless, of course, World's Finest is a subtitle and it's really called "Superman/Batman: World's Finest or Batman/Superman: World's Finest."

I disagree with his particular assessment on why this should be called "Batman Vs. Superman" though I can understand some of his sentiments. The largest reason why I disagree is that with a title of "Batman Vs. Superman" (or vice versa) it would most likely paint one or the other as a villain in some regard, something I don't think would need to be done. Neither are villains, nor are their intentions villainous so there wouldn't be a need for them to clash other than ideologically. And that would be something I feel would be lost in the translation with that sort of title.

Outside of that particular issue is something he mentions about aspirations, and I find that this is true in most anecdotal incidents I've experienced when discussions about Batman come up. That he is easier to identify with because he's a man and as men/women we can envision a version of us where we are rich, having trained our bodies and minds to their absolute peaks, and willing to risk our lives in the name of justice. That's all well and good though it's cherry picking what "realistic" aspects of the character that is potentially achievable. While yes no one of this Earth is an alien born with the powers of a god (from what I can tell) that is not the only facet of what makes Superman who he is. His unwavering moral code, to always strive to do right by human kind, to help the helpless in need, these are all things that we as humans right this second can (and some would argue should) aspire to.

My biggest fear for this particular movie is that it will take a singular stance on which one of these two characters is "right". While the two characters are very likely to work together to end the threat of this film, it's possible that lingering sentiment amongst the makers of the film will enforce one viewpoint, leaving the other as invalid.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Calling it "World's Finest" would definitely resonate with comic fans, but not so much with general moviegoers. Unless, of course, World's Finest is a subtitle and it's really called "Superman/Batman: World's Finest or Batman/Superman: World's Finest."

Exactly.

 

[Bludhaven]

My biggest fear for this particular movie is that it will take a singular stance on which one of these two characters is "right". While the two characters are very likely to work together to end the threat of this film, it's possible that lingering sentiment amongst the makers of the film will enforce one viewpoint, leaving the other as invalid.

I felt the same way but this is very much Snyder's version (quite different to what we've seen in the past) and I have a feeling that he will be protective of his Superman. Plus I think he's going to try to redeem Superman after much of the criticism he received for killing Zod and the collateral damage.

 

[The Batman]

"The Dark Knight" and "Man of Steel" didn't resonate with non comic fans either...yet both titles were used.

"That title wouldn't resonate" just sounds like a cop out excuse

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Some didn't even know Man of Steel was a Superman movie. The Dark Knight is more known as a secondary name for Batman, and the movie got a lot of publicity because of Heath's death so the title didn't matter. We've been over this before.

 

[The Batman]

^ Yeah, we have, and to be honest, that reasoning sounds as unconvincing as the first time you said it.

The whole argument against calling this movie "World's Finest" just dosent work in general. Whatever the title, people will go see it with good enough marketing.

 

[Boy Scout]

^ Yeah, we have, and to be honest, that reasoning sounds as unconvincing as the first time you said it.

The whole argument against calling this movie "World's Finest" just dosent work in general. Whatever the title, people will go see it with good enough marketing.

This. I mean...really? The general audience won't give a damn about the title as long as they know what the movie's about. They could call it Super Best Friends Forever if they wanted to and people would still go and see it if the trailers looked good. There's no reason why they couldn't call it World's Finest.

Also: since when has Superman been someone we can't aspire to be like? That's kind of the whole point of the character. We should all want to be like Superman because Superman is the epitome of human kindness and virtue.

 

[samsnee]

It shouldn't be called Batman vs Superman because then you're basically just saying the only selling point is to see them fight, like Jason and Freddy. This movie should be more than just 60 minutes of exposition leading to a 2 minute title fight.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Do some really think that more people knew Batman's moniker of the Dark Knight before Nolan's use? As compared to Superman being known as The Man Of Steel by general audiences? Yeah, that's just plain wrong. Sorry Batfans but most of the GA knew of the Caped Crusader nick name over the more badass sounding Dark Knight, and they sure as hell knew what Man of Steel was referring to.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

^ Yeah, we have, and to be honest, that reasoning sounds as unconvincing as the first time you said it.

The whole argument against calling this movie "World's Finest" just dosent work in general. Whatever the title, people will go see it with good enough marketing.

Unconvincing or not, though, the reasoning is real and valid.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Do some really think that more people knew Batman's moniker of the Dark Knight before Nolan's use? As compared to Superman being known as The Man Of Steel by general audiences? Yeah, that's just plain wrong. Sorry Batfans but most of the GA knew of the Caped Crusader nick name over the more badass sounding Dark Knight, and they sure as hell knew what Man of Steel was referring to.

Where are you getting this information that you are so sure of? Has there been some type of poll over which name the GA recognizes Batman more by between Dark Knight and Caped Crusader?

Not to mention that I knew quite a few people that didn't know MOS was a Superman movie. That name isn't as well-known as you'd like to believe.

 

[MrMaooz]

I can't wait for the teaser trailer! We're going to be teased hard!

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Don't you change the subject.

 

[MrMaooz]

I just did. Muahahahaha.

 

[The Batman]

Unconvincing or not, though, the reasoning is real and valid.

I can't agree with that. It's like some weird nitpick that only a studio executive would think or care about.

 

[Tra-El]

Anything "VS" sounds like a damn gimmick. DON'T do it. Both characters deserve better.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I just did. Muahahahaha.

Spoiler

I can't agree with that. It's like some weird nitpick that only a studio executive would think or care about.

God forbid them doing the job they were hired for.