BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 13

[smallville fan]

On paper, yes... but I don't think it'll be able to out gross The Avengers 2. The reaction to Man of Steel was too mixed, and The Avengers 2 is the follow up to one of the biggest movies of all time.

Once upon a time nobody thought a "pew pew Hollywood explosion movie which imitates the last Transformers" made by the guy who failed with that cult niche show Firefly(words from friends who were then naysayers of The Avengers) could ever hold a candle to Christopher Nolan's follow-up and "Masterpiece ending" to that overrated trilogy.

What happened here was that The Avengers had the whole ambitious "We've never seen anything like this" factor going for it against a film audiences have once regarded as "one of the biggest movies of all time", or a movie we've essentially seen before ie Batman, being Batman complete with talking like a throat cancer patient as he fights a villain. The flaws it had further added to it, thus resulting in The Avengers beating The Dark Knight Rises critically and financially.

I agree with ЯɘvlveR, Phase 2 is off to a "fine" start.

Bottom line is: Do not underestimate the new kids on the block.

P.S. Let's not kid ourselves here, we all know who's going to really win 2015:

 

[Frodo]

Brilliant thinking. It would fit in perfectly to the Batman VS Superman title they chose to reveal...they could just have easily called it Batman AND Superman.

And to all those Super-fans who are worried that Superman will be the villain and he'll be seen in a negative light and yada yada, YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT WRONG.

Making Superman the villain could be a masterstroke.

1) It allows him to be seen as more than the boring boyscout, which is important if Superman is to reach the same level of popularity as Batman.

2) A masterstroke because it helps establish the Justice League in one fell swoop WITHOUT Bats, WW, Flash taking the movie away from Superman. The added bonus of seeing them conflict (which is a necessary step in building the team) without copying the Avengers style of heroes fighting without a great reason.

3) Perhaps most importantly, making Superman be the villain could potentially be the most genuine way to making him the hero he really is.

Think about it, what would be more substantial- Him earning people's trust by saving cats from trees, or him proving his true heroism to the real heavyweights who have actually been there, Batman and the others?

You could even have Lois helping him , putting herself on the line for him , which would sway fears fans have of the Lois and Clark relationship not having a chance to blossom.

 

[MrsKent26]

I may fail but like Superman I will never give up.
Read mad-sci's post a few posts up about how all this could fit into a Man of Steel sequel while still putting the focus on Superman.

You wonder why I am so optimistic about this movie. I have hope. Something I learned from Superman…from the movies…and comics and cartoons. Superman's theme was about hope way before Goyer opened up Final Draft on his laptop. Superman sees the good in humanity…even after we have disappointed him over and over again. This movie may disappoint…it may be the worst thing ever committed to film…I hope it's not. I'd rather live my life with the belief that on July 17th, 2015 I will witness something I always dreamed about as a child than upset for two years in the belief that they screwed it up. That is why I am optimistic for this film. I choose to be…

I wish I was more like the roaches and the Supes, but I'm not. I would call myself a realist. I tend to believe what the evidence shows. The evidence shows me that this will be JL, as written by an inconsistent writer. I wanted to see a continuation of what happened in MOS and I'm not convinced I'll get it. And yes, other users have some very interesting ideas on how this could work as a Supes movie. I do like those ideas, but I don't see Goyer going that way.

I don't necessarily think this movie will be awful. I think it will be at least decent and do well at the box office. The team-up angle isn't what I want, but it is popular, so people will go see this. So, I'm not predicting a huge dud or anything. I just don't think it will be what I want. I worry that WB saw what Avengers did and figured that was the only way to get their hands on a slice of that billion-dollar pie. So instead of working on MOS's flaws and continuing Superman's story and characterization, they ride the team-up hype because it's easier.

I agree with the inconsistency thing. The thing is when he was with Nolan he was with a director who had a far better understanding of story telling and film making than what Snyder does. That's not to say Nolan was perfect, Rises is proof that that even the best slip up, but he's a far stronger film maker and is able to do a course correction if need be. Snyder is also inconsistent. The fear is whether they are taking on far more than they can possibly chew.

I kinda think they have bitten off way more than they can chew. I don't get why WB is so confident in them. They aren't terrible, but they have been given a huge movie to make and their records are hit and miss.

 

[Wheels]

You still would need a true villain for Superman to prove his worth unless they use a natural disaster.

 

[jmc]

I wish I was more like the roaches and the Supes, but I'm not. I would call myself a realist. I tend to believe what the evidence shows. The evidence shows me that this will be JL, as written by an inconsistent writer. I wanted to see a continuation of what happened in MOS and I'm not convinced I'll get it. And yes, other users have some very interesting ideas on how this could work as a Supes movie. I do like those ideas, but I don't see Goyer going that way.

I don't necessarily think this movie will be awful. I think it will be at least decent and do well at the box office. The team-up angle isn't what I want, but it is popular, so people will go see this. So, I'm not predicting a huge dud or anything. I just don't think it will be what I want. I worry that WB saw what Avengers did and figured that was the only way to get their hands on a slice of that billion-dollar pie. So instead of working on MOS's flaws and continuing Superman's story and characterization, they ride the team-up hype because it's easier.

Dude, just cancel all expectations for the movie you have. Simple as that really, that way at least you may enjoy it to some degree.

 

[MrsKent26]

Dude, just cancel all expectations for the movie you have. Simple as that really, that way at least you may enjoy it to some degree.

My expectations are lowered a lot, so that should help. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[InJustice]

I wish I was more like the roaches and the Supes, but I'm not. I would call myself a realist. I tend to believe what the evidence shows. The evidence shows me that this will be JL, as written by an inconsistent writer. I wanted to see a continuation of what happened in MOS and I'm not convinced I'll get it. And yes, other users have some very interesting ideas on how this could work as a Supes movie. I do like those ideas, but I don't see Goyer going that way.

I don't necessarily think this movie will be awful. I think it will be at least decent and do well at the box office. The team-up angle isn't what I want, but it is popular, so people will go see this. So, I'm not predicting a huge dud or anything. I just don't think it will be what I want. I worry that WB saw what Avengers did and figured that was the only way to get their hands on a slice of that billion-dollar pie. So instead of working on MOS's flaws and continuing Superman's story and characterization, they ride the team-up hype because it's easier.

I kinda think they have bitten off way more than they can chew. I don't get why WB is so confident in them. They aren't terrible, but they have been given a huge movie to make and their records are hit and miss.

I appreciate your rational mindset, but you might be jumping the gun. I say that because of this quote:

David Goyer: "It is our intention that, in success, this would be the zero issue and from this point onward, possible films could expand into a shared universe. In our world, the Man of Steel world, Zack has gone on record saying that we’re implying there are other superheroes in this world. But I don’t know that they’ve come forward yet. The idea is that Superman is the first one. There might be people helping people, but not in costumes, and that Superman comes forward and announces himself to the world. In him announcing himself, he’s the one that changes things."

I highly doubt it'll be a team-up considering how the sequel (apparently) will explore the ramifications of Superman's arrival, and what it means for (hidden) superheroes. That definitely does not sound like a Justice League-scale of film. And it sort of implies that Superman has the burden of proof to show others that he's not ill-intentioned.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

What is this about?

 

[AnneFan]

P.S. Let's not kid ourselves here, we all know who's going to really win 2015:

Eh. My younger self is probably screaming out in horror, but I'm not that excited about the next Star Wars. Hope it's good, though.

Doctor Who ftw. t:

 

[jmc]

I agree with that actually, maybe it's down to the prequels but I feel like Star Wars has run its course.

 

[roach]

I wanted to see a continuation of what happened in MOS and I'm not convinced I'll get it.

There is no evidence that suggests you won't get a continuation of that. Even with Batman, Flash, WW and NW(rumored) in this movie there are still more Superman characters in this movie than not. Superman will be in this, Lois will be in this, Perry will be in this, Martha will be in this…they are currently building the Kent Farm so you know there will be scenes there. The guy who played the general says he expects to come back…we'll probably see more Lombard and Jenny…the villain/s are rumored to be Lex and Metallo….That's 8 Superman characters vs 4 non…Batman will be a main..WW will be a supporting or cameo…Flash and NW will be cameos…all the evidence is telling me that the focus of this movie is still on Superman.

I don't necessarily think this movie will be awful. I think it will be at least decent and do well at the box office. The team-up angle isn't what I want, but it is popular, so people will go see this. So, I'm not predicting a huge dud or anything. I just don't think it will be what I want. I worry that WB saw what Avengers did and figured that was the only way to get their hands on a slice of that billion-dollar pie. So instead of working on MOS's flaws and continuing Superman's story and characterization, they ride the team-up hype because it's easier.

Not really. WB has been planning a JL movie way before Avengers hit the theaters. They have been trying to make a JL film since 2007.


I kinda think they have bitten off way more than they can chew. I don't get why WB is so confident in them. They aren't terrible, but they have been given a huge movie to make and their records are hit and miss.

Both of them have more hits than misses.

 

[NoLaNitE007]

My expectations are lowered a lot, so that should help. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Or better yet. Just don't watch the movie until Blue Ray.

 

[jmc]

Or better yet. Just don't watch the movie until Blue Ray.

What's confusing? Someone is allowed to go into a film with lowered expectations.

 

[MrsKent26]

There is no evidence that suggests you won't get a continuation of that. Even with Batman, Flash, WW and NW(rumored) in this movie there are still more Superman characters in this movie than not. Superman will be in this, Lois will be in this, Perry will be in this, Martha will be in this…they are currently building the Kent Farm so you know there will be scenes there. The guy who played the general says he expects to come back…we'll probably see more Lombard and Jenny…the villain/s are rumored to be Lex and Metallo….That's 8 Superman characters vs 4 non…Batman will be a main..WW will be a supporting or cameo…Flash and NW will be cameos…all the evidence is telling me that the focus of this movie is still on Superman.

Why would they announce WW like they did if she's just a cameo? Doesn't make sense to me. She must have decent amount of screen time. And who knows about Flash and NW. If they are in it, they could have larger roles too. And all those Supes characters could have small roles. But we don't know.

Not really. WB has been planning a JL movie way before Avengers hit the theaters. They have been trying to make a JL film since 2007.

That could be true. I don't have any inside info, so I don't know.

Both of them have more hits than misses.

Maybe. But it's not so much the amount of misses they've had that worries me, it's that they seem to miss the same things.

 

[NoLaNitE007]

What's confusing? Someone is allowed to go into a film with lowered expectations.

No...they aren't. Who says they are? t:

 

[MrsKent26]

^^^ you mean, I'm not allowed to have lowered expectations?

 

[sf2]

I guess the synopsis is far most important.

 

[Airwings]

If Doomsday is indeed in the film, they it makes sense for WW to appear. What can Batman alone possible bring to the table in a fight with a monster that can kill Superman by bare strenght?

 

[Micromind]

So, this movie will feature Batman, Wonder Woman, Nightwing, Flash along with Superman ?

Why not throw in Green Arrow while we are at it ?

 

[jmc]

Nightwing isn't confirmed. Flash is still rumoured I believe.

 

[herolee10]

the thing that I'm surprised about is that if they knew they were going to bring in WW all this time, why not announce her alongside Batman at comic con earlier this year?

 

[Micromind]

I think that story is built around Superman and Batman, most probably they will just introduce Diana (not WW) in this movie, her guest appearance will not take up much of screen time.

 

[jmc]

the thing that I'm surprised about is that if they knew they were going to bring in WW all this time, why not announce her alongside Batman at comic con earlier this year?

Maybe they didn't know.

 

[AnneFan]

I think that story is built around Superman and Batman, most probably they will just introduce Diana (not WW) in this movie, her guest appearance will not take up much of screen time.

Yep. She could be like Natasha in IM2, bubbling under the surface and having a fight scene appearance near the end. Who knows. It's all in the script.

 

[jmc]

If it's anything like IM2 then it will be a complete waste of time.