The Dark Knight Rises Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

[stillanerd]

With regards to the ending, it's not the least bit ambiguous at all. There were more than enough indications that what we saw at the end was as straight-forward as it purports to be. The autopilot being fixed. The missing pearls. The repaired bat-signal. The supposedly unaltered will, even though it has instructions for both John Blake and Wayne Manor to be made into an orphanage. Heck, Bruce even knows what Alfred's fantasy is because Alfred straight up told him, so it's clear that he and Selina intentionally went to that cafe knowing full well Alfred would be there. Compared to Nolan's other films, the endings to his Batman films are very clear-cut, so I do think some are trying to be a bit too clever by half in this case.

EDIT: Granted, I understand why. Christopher Nolan's films have a tendency to make things not what they appear to be at face value, so they think that, like Inception's ambiguous ending, there had to be more to what, for all intends and purposes, was very straight-forward. Never mind the fact that Bruce Wayne's supposed demise WAS the moment in which things didn't appear as what they seemed to be and that, thematically, it made far more sense for Bruce to still be alive and be with Selina at the end.

And if everyone wants to have the conspiracy, out there, theory that Bruce is actually dead (even though we SEE him alive) -- why can't we give thought to this theory?

Nolan cheated time. The last shot of Batman in the cock pit was from well before the clock reached 5 seconds...

This is just as believable as Alfred hallucinating.... (if not more)

I mean, c'mon man -- he's BATMAN. He always escapes the impossible without there seeming to be a chance of survival or enough time. It's what he does.

OR the entire cockpit of the Bat ejects, similar to the Batpod ejecting from the Tumbler and Batman was already well away from the blast when we see him that blast in that last shot we see him.

-R

Exactly.

Yeah. Moreover, most people in Gotham still hate Batman for being a vigilante, for destroying tons of public property. They don't know he fought Ra's Al Ghul, they don't know he was the one who defeated the Joker. Look the scene in TDK where Bruce wants to reveal he is Batman but Harvey takes his place. People hate Batman! They want him arrested. This gets worse by the end of TDK. Moreover, people hate Bruce Wayne because he's an ******* every time he's on public eyes. And, he could've said...Batman is the one who destroyed Harvey's Dent's life! He's the one who has ruined the hopes for a better Gotham.

Bane could've warped the truth, said that he's the one who defeated the outlaw. Who finally brought piece to Gotham by exposing all the lies, including his identity. This would've made the movie SO MUCH better.

It still makes no sense why he wouldn't tell.

But Bane DID warp the truth. He stated that not only was Gordon complicit in covering up Harvey Dent's crimes as Two-Face, but that the entire city government was in on the conspiracy. He's rubbing it in Gotham's face that the guy they thought was nothing but a murderer and outlaw was the real hero all along and the guy they were told was the "White Knight of Gotham" was the real villain, that he was nothing but a propaganda symbol used by Gotham's elite to prop up their "corrupt regime." Besides, he was also trying to stir the hatred amongst the Blackgate prisoners that had been boiling for the past eight years, by also telling them "See? None of you should have been put in prison in the first place."

LOL. A nice way to give hope is exploding the city with a bomb, huh? Give me a break.

Bane doesn't give a **** about the people. He wants to destroy the city and bring it to ashes!

While it's true Bane doesn't give a **** about the people and wants to get revenge on Batman for Ra's al Ghul's death by "fulfilling [his] destiny," the whole idea is to give Gotham a false sense of hope that they could survive, just as he thinks he's giving Bruce a false sense of hope by placing him in the pit that only one person has ever escaped from and saying, "all you got to do is climb out and you'll be free and that there's no guards to stop you." Remember, he never told the people of Gotham they only had five months until the reactor exploded; all he said was that the bomb was armed and that a "citizen" had the trigger-mechanism. Again, the whole idea is that he's giving Gotham a false sense of hope, that Gotham will not be destroyed if they do what he says, to make them believe they still have a chance, which, once the eventual destruction happens, it will make their despair, the world's, and especially Bruce's, that much greater.

 

[UaalaDan]

A great moment of revenge would be to ruin his life Forever by telling the secret identity. It didn't need to be at the speech. Maybe at the end of the movie or something when he realized he was going to fail and lose the fight. It sucked the wait it is in the movie.

So many things could've been better. Oh well...

 

[jonnywhc]

Holy ****. Revealing who Batman is would help Batman's cause at that point.

LOL. A nice way to give hope is exploding the city with a bomb, huh? Give me a break.

Bane doesn't give a **** about the people. He wants to destroy the city and bring it to ashes!

Wow. You really didn't listen to what Bane said..at all.

Stillanerd explained this very clearly.

 

[UaalaDan]

No. I listened. It's just that I believe your blind defense of this movie and explanations of plot-holes make no sense to me and I completely disagree with your views. Let's leave it be, then. You're not going to change my mind about what I think are legit flaws in this movie and what could've been done better. End of story.

 

[jonnywhc]

What are you talking about?

Bane said he wanted to give the people false hope so that when the time comes they will really go crazy.

Simple as ****.

 

[LennyLemmings]

Holy ****. Revealing who Batman is would help Batman's cause at that point.



Wow. You really didn't listen to what Bane said..at all.

Stillanerd explained this very clearly.

Your right, and about the hope thing, Bane says that he wants to corrupt the souls of the people by giving them hope and then taking it away, just like in the prison.

 

[UaalaDan]

Tha'ts still stupid when nothing like that matters because he is going to blow up the city anyway.

 

[jonnywhc]

It matters cos he's revelling in the lie he's enjoying punishing Gotham and Bruce in the best way possible.

Giving someone hope sets them up for a greater crash once they fall.

Again, simple as ****.

It isn't about blowing a city up, its about destroying it, in more ways than one.

 

[UaalaDan]

What you call simple, I call an ineffective motive and a stupid explanation.

So, whatever you say, dude! If you like movies that make no sense and have an enormous amount of plot-holes, that's ok. I, on the other hand, have studied comic books and writing for a lot of years of my life. I don't swallow BS when it is thrown at me.

Even more, I don't buy the notion that because this is a comic book movie, things doesn't have to make sense. The flaws of this movie comes from a filmmaking point of view. But Nolan did more right than wrong with Batman, though, hence why this movie deserves a 7, imo.

 

[georgec]

I have to get this off my chest. The discussion about ambiguity in the ending around various threads is almost parodying itself.

The movie tells us near the beginning that the pearl necklace has a tracking device. Bruce uses it to find Selina. Then at the end of the movie, the guy managing the will tells the lady who gave ROBIN his bag that they're missing a necklace.

Surely Alfred was notified of the missing necklace, traced the location (to Italy), and put two and two together.

I firmly believe Alfred knew what to expect when he went to that cafe at the end of the movie.

 

[UaalaDan]

The ending is pretty straightforward. He lived, there's no question about it. People need to see the last scenes again if they have any doubts. They're on youtube. I must admit that at first i thought it was ambiguous but it isn't at all. You may not like the ending, like me, but it is what it is.

 

[jonnywhc]

So, whatever you say, dude! If you like movies that make no sense and have an enormous amount of plot-holes, that's ok.

lol..why didn't Joker just blow both the boats up as soon as both were full?

Why didn't he just blow up Harvey and Rachel at the same time, no countdown?

Why does any supervillain take his time?

C'mon now. If you don't like something..fine. If you don't get something..fine. But don't be ignorant and try so hard to faults with it. Your plan for Batman's identity to be revealed makes no sense whatsoever, so..yano..

 

[DigificWriter]

UaalaDan, just because you dislike things about TDKR doesn't mean that the things you dislike are plot-holes.

 

[J.P.]

This is how it should have ended:

Spoiler

Gordon should have jumped out of the truck just before in went into the hole. Batman lands on the upper street and talks with Gordon and Selina, Batman and Catwoman kiss, and before Batman gets into the Bat, he tells Gordon the hero/coat line.
The next shot you see is the bat go into the hole, Batman (outside of the bat) looks at the dying Miranda, then you see him jump back in the cockpit, and an above ground shot with Gordon and Selina seeing the Bat rise out with the bomb and fly away. no more shots of batman, and then the explosion!

This would have made the ending not have all of the inception conspiracy theorists coming out of the woodwork.

 

[wootbaby]

This is how it should have ended:

Spoiler

Gordon should have jumped out of the truck just before in went into the hole. Batman lands on the upper street and talks with Gordon and Selina, Batman and Catwoman kiss, and before Batman gets into the Bat, he tells Gordon the hero/coat line.
The next shot you see is the bat go into the hole, Batman (outside of the bat) looks at the dying Miranda, then you see him jump back in the cockpit, and an above ground shot with Gordon and Selina seeing the Bat rise out with the bomb and fly away. no more shots of batman, and then the explosion!

This would have made the ending not have all of the inception conspiracy theorists coming out of the woodwork.

Yeah make the entire movie typical dumb Hollywood movie. Hell just take out Miranda being Talia all together. Americans don't need that layering of plot to get them confused. Batman beats up Bane with his bare hands on top of the roof with all the cops cheering. Catwoman and Miranda team up to kick ass on Bane's girlfriend, a Palestinian girl who escaped from the jail with him. Bane dies in a long tedious shot falling off the roof where Batman did NOT kill him but he died on his own because he was evil. Blake drives the bust through the blockage dodging explosions and being a hero... kids cheer. Finally Batman lectures the body of Bane about how it was diversity that made Gotham strong before running over to defuse the bomb with his Bat Bomb Defuser. In the end Alfred comes back like nothing happens and Bruce and Blake high five... cutting to a shot with Batman and Blake (now Robin) flying towards the camera in a heroic pose.

yes you're right. a movie like that as dumb as the Avengers would have no critics and no American audience member would have been confused by the ending...

 

[Midnight Black]

The ending was fine the way it was.t:

 

[J.P.]

Yeah make the entire movie typical dumb Hollywood movie. Hell just take out Miranda being Talia all together. Americans don't need that layering of plot to get them confused. Batman beats up Bane with his bare hands on top of the roof with all the cops cheering. Catwoman and Miranda team up to kick ass on Bane's girlfriend, a Palestinian girl who escaped from the jail with him. Bane dies in a long tedious shot falling off the roof where Batman did NOT kill him but he died on his own because he was evil. Blake drives the bust through the blockage dodging explosions and being a hero... kids cheer. Finally Batman lectures the body of Bane about how it was diversity that made Gotham strong before running over to defuse the bomb with his Bat Bomb Defuser. In the end Alfred comes back like nothing happens and Bruce and Blake high five... cutting to a shot with Batman and Blake (now Robin) flying towards the camera in a heroic pose.

yes you're right. a movie like that as dumb as the Avengers would have no critics and no American audience member would have been confused by the ending...

I changed one minor part of the ending... Everything still happens the same way. Just doesn't show a shot of Batman and then the bridge, and then 5 seconds on the clock, and then batman, and then a 6 megaton nuclear blast...

 

[wootbaby]

I have to get this off my chest. The discussion about ambiguity in the ending around various threads is almost parodying itself.

The movie tells us near the beginning that the pearl necklace has a tracking device. Bruce uses it to find Selina. Then at the end of the movie, the guy managing the will tells the lady who gave ROBIN his bag that they're missing a necklace.

Surely Alfred was notified of the missing necklace, traced the location (to Italy), and put two and two together.

I firmly believe Alfred knew what to expect when he went to that cafe at the end of the movie.

no Bruce went to that cafe on the Arno on the day of Alfred's vacation to let Alfred know he was okay.

else why would Alfred wait to track Bruce on that day? at that place? and why would he be surprised to see Bruce? losing Bruce was the biggest regret Alfred had. if he had a means to find Bruce why would he wait until the day of his yearly vacation?

the REASON why Bruce took the necklace is because it's the one thing that he couldn't leave behind. why? it was his mother's necklace that his parents died for

Thomas Wayne gave the necklace to Martha in the first movie, on the day they went to the opera. Thomas was handling Chill telling him to calm down but when Chill saw the necklace he pointed his gun at his mom. His dad was cool when the gun was pointed at him but when it was pointed at his wife he jumped in front of her and Chill panicked and shot them both

in the movie, the reason why it's missing is because the entire montage builds increasing hints that Bruce is alive. first the pearls then the autopilot then the bat signal finally the reveal with Alfred seeing Bruce if anyone is still that dense

there are only 2 people who could crack that "uncrackable" safe. Bruce and Selina. in the context of Selina's sense of honor, Nolan's Catwoman would never have taken the necklace after Bruce died. So Bruce had to be alive that's why it's the pearls. the fact that he has given them to Selina to indicate that he has fully moved on from his parents death AND has also found happiness is just a bonus.

the tracking was plot device already used so Bruce could track down Selina in the first part of the movie

 

[Midnight Black]

Thank you Wootbaby for clearing that up...man I swear this was some people's first time seeing a movie lol. Some people need everything explained or over analyze waaaaayyyy tooo much. Oh well, I guess this leads to healthy discussion lolt:

 

[thesaltyone]

So I get the story about Batman dying (or so Gotham thinks), but what was the public story for Bruce Wayne's death in the movie. Was it ever addressed?

 

[kvz5]

From the novelization:

No official cause of death had been released regarding the last of the Wayne dynasty. The tabloids had indulged in scandalous speculation, but nobody really paid much attention. Too any people had died during Bane's reign of terror for even the death of Bruce Wayne to stand out.

Pretty sad when you think about it.

 

[wootbaby]

So I get the story about Batman dying (or so Gotham thinks), but what was the public story for Bruce Wayne's death in the movie. Was it ever addressed?

It's not specifically addressed in the movie but Bruce has been gone for a long time. Aside from the goons seeing him once when they "capture" him he's not been seen since the rioting

I think the assumption that most have is that he was killed by the looters or died on the ice via Crane.

keep in mind that even in a SE Asia prison in the first movie or a middle east prison in the 3rd movie people knew who Bruce Wayne is. People consider him legally dead for sure. It's better for Bruce if people think he's dead to move on with his life

 

[wootbaby]

From the novelization:



Pretty sad when you think about it.

well there you go

if it makes you feel any better. there are certainly "rumors" of Bruce Wayne.

thugs claim to have seen him. some tourist in Russia claims to have seen him

he's like Elvis.

 

[kvz5]

About the Fox part at the end (copied from NolanFans):

[T]he underground armory looked as good as new, as did the new and remaining prototypes. . . .

At the moment, a pair of technicians was inspecting the last surviving version of the Bat. The original Prototype had been vaporized over the ocean, months ago, but Fox had salvaged a variant model whose components has survived Bane's incursion. The techs were running a systems analysis from the cockpit. . . .

The tech keyed in the request, His eyes widened in surprise.
"Huh? Bruce Wayne."
Bruce?
Lucius stepped away from the aircraft, trying to conceal his reaction. An idea began to form in his mind, as clearly as an engineering diagram. A weight slowly lifted from his shoulders.
Well, as I live and breathe. . .

 

[wootbaby]

But Bane DID warp the truth. He stated that not only was Gordon complicit in covering up Harvey Dent's crimes as Two-Face, but that the entire city government was in on the conspiracy. He's rubbing it in Gotham's face that the guy they thought was nothing but a murderer and outlaw was the real hero all along and the guy they were told was the "White Knight of Gotham" was the real villain, that he was nothing but a propaganda symbol used by Gotham's elite to prop up their "corrupt regime." Besides, he was also trying to stir the hatred amongst the Blackgate prisoners that had been boiling for the past eight years, by also telling them "See? None of you should have been put in prison in the first place."

Bane told them the truth that Dent wasn't a hero but he lies about everything else. He's really sarcastic telling the people to RISE and how he's offering them freedom from oppression. Even this is just a mockery of Batman's hope in the first movie that he could be the symbol that made the people of Gotham RISE up and take back their city from the criminals. Bane is putting himself in Bruce's shoes as that symbol but twisting the message to bring more pain to Bruce.

The reason why he frees the prisoners isn't principle but tactics. The National Guard captain on the bridge laughs at the minion "how many men do you have son?" Pointing out rightly that they dont have the manpower to control the city or even prevent ppl from leaving. Bane arms the prisoners and tells them to join him, as a mercenary force. The bit about corruption is just nonsense that he's spewing for fun.

While it's true Bane doesn't give a **** about the people and wants to get revenge on Batman for Ra's al Ghul's death by "fulfilling [his] destiny," the whole idea is to give Gotham a false sense of hope that they could survive, just as he thinks he's giving Bruce a false sense of hope by placing him in the pit that only one person has ever escaped from and saying, "all you got to do is climb out and you'll be free and that there's no guards to stop you." Remember, he never told the people of Gotham they only had five months until the reactor exploded; all he said was that the bomb was armed and that a "citizen" had the trigger-mechanism. Again, the whole idea is that he's giving Gotham a false sense of hope, that Gotham will not be destroyed if they do what he says, to make them believe they still have a chance, which, once the eventual destruction happens, it will make their despair, the world's, and especially Bruce's, that much greater.

Yeah he keeps the city alive to torture Bruce and the entire bit about lifting oppression and corruption is the bit of sunlight for the people of Gotham as they're being held prisoner. It's false hope.

Keeping all the cops underground plays into that bit about torturing souls with false hope (since it's all going to blow none of that **** even matters TBH to Bane. he could kill them now or 5 months from now... it's all mathematical certainty to Bane) I understand the plot device and the logic in the movie but that part still seemed kinda dumb to me

For Talia it makes sense why she was so fixated on Bruce and Gotham. Just like Bruce was obsessive about avenging his father's death and taking his father's mission to save Gotham (Thomas Wayne had done it through charity and good works... and even given his life to the very people he was trying to save). There's a Nolan symmetry in Talia also being fixated on avenging her father's death and finishing his mission to destroy Gotham (the world's greatest city according to the movies)

But for Bane I have my own pet belief (totally not proven by any means) that the events with Ras in Batman Begins began shortly after he expelled Bane... the math matches up as far as timeline... to find a new successor. Bane sees himself as Ras successor and the League of Shadows so he has an obsessive hatred of Bruce and torturing more of the people Bruce failed to protect bring him more pleasure.