Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

[EssayM]

Also, given that Kinberg has apologized for Last Stand and is a big advocate for bringing all the Marvel properties together someday, I don't think it's fair to say he doesn't care about the fans. If anything, he seems to be one of the few Fox people who's actually excited about this project.

 

[EssayM]

I think what many are doing is looking at the whole picture of what we have seen and heard, along with these new revelations and developing an opinion from that....rather than hanging on the words of Kinberg as gospel.

I for one, really don't have much of a problem if they are going a UFF route, and as far as casting, I'm just not real keen on Mara as Sue....but I certainly can understand the still negative feelings from the long time fans. We know what kind of timeline is needed for a grand CB movie...and that is not what we are hearing at the moment.

Okay, but I would think that, to a certain extent, the story and tone are somewhat more important than what their production schedule is, or how other CBMs film.

 

[Kelly]

Okay, but I would think that, to a certain extent, the story and tone are somewhat more important than what their production schedule is, or how other CBMs film.

And nothing that Kinberg said about the "story" or "tone" would stem the negativity of most long time fans...how would it. Because he says its more Spidey than Batman????? really???? that TOTALLY says that it is going to be totally Fantastic Four of the comics. And having a semi-UFF storyline will certainly quell the negativity of those that believe the better story lines are from the original.

 

[Eddie]

Also, given that Kinberg has apologized for Last Stand and is a big advocate for bringing all the Marvel properties together someday, I don't think it's fair to say he doesn't care about the fans. If anything, he seems to be one of the few Fox people who's actually excited about this project.

Kinberg is one of the main reasons a crossover is highly unlikely. He can say what he wants, but his scripts are the ones making the Fox movies completely incompatible with the MCU movies. Oh, and for someone who actually cares about this stuff he should probably remember that Iceman was played by the same guy now that's always played him in live action (especially when said actor was in X2, his "favorite" superhero movie), Fox can't make those Marvel tv shows he's talking about, and comparing comic movie crossovers to the equal rights movement isn't the best idea.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

1. On 'tone', Kinberg says the film will be closer to Chronicle than Spider-Man. For me, as a Fantastic Four Fan, the tone of Chrinicle isn't close to the what made me fall in love with the FF.

2. Kinberg says this will be an origin story. I didn't fall in love with the FF because of their origin. Their origin is backstory - not a film in itself. Kirby and Lee devoted a couple pages to it and then got to what really defined the FF - Amazing adventures. An origin story is not the Fantastic Four. It's a waste of $100 million dollars. If they don't make an effort to capture the elements that made the FF special in this film, we very likely won't get a sequel because the audience will walk out thinking: "What was so special about that?" Films like Spider-Man and Iron Man gave us origins but then gave us the characters we knew and loved from the comics before it was over. They didn't say: "Come back in two years and then maybe, possibly, if we feel like it, we'll give you what you paid for this time."

3. Kinberg says this will be a 'coming of age' story. Huh?!?! What?!?! What does that have to do with the FF?!?! I never picked up an FF comic-book as a kid and said: "Wow! That was great! I loved how it was a 'coming of age' story."

4. Kinberg says Doom will get powers with the FF - as he did in the first FF movie and as he did in Ultimate FF. That's not Dr. Doom. That's a big reason so many fans were turned off by the first film and now they're going to turn around and do the same thing again?!?! UFF should not even be considered as a valid source material if they want to please FF fans. FF fans want FF, not UFF.

As an FF fan, there was almost nothing Kinberg said that made me feel good about this project and a whole lot he said that makes me far less interested in this film than I was before he spoke.

I'm nearly done. It seems there's very little for me to look forward to.

They seem to just want to make a film that has little or nothing to do with the FF. If I want that, there are 100's of other choices.

 

[EssayM]

And nothing that Kinberg said about the "story" or "tone" would stem the negativity of most long time fans...how would it. Because he says its more Spidey than Batman????? really???? that TOTALLY says that it is going to be totally Fantastic Four of the comics. And having a semi-UFF storyline will certainly quell the negativity of those that believe the better story lines are from the original.

Fans were concerned that the film would be too "dark and gritty" and have no fun. The writer said this was not the case. How is that not reassuring?

Kinberg is one of the main reasons a crossover is highly unlikely. He can say what he wants, but his scripts are the ones making the Fox movies completely incompatible with the MCU movies. Oh, and for someone who actually cares about this stuff he should probably remember that Iceman was played by the same guy now that's always played him in live action (especially when said actor was in X2, his "favorite" superhero movie), Fox can't make those Marvel tv shows he's talking about, and comparing comic movie crossovers to the equal rights movement isn't the best idea.

I'm sorry, but that's some serious nitpicking there. Yeah, how dare he forget a minor detail about a secondary character in a movie he wasn't even involved in, while being interviewed in the middle of a noisy Con? I mean, who could possibly not remember the unforgettable screen presence of Shawn Ashmore? It's not like a bunch of other characters from those movies had to wait awhile to get consistent actors, thus making it easy to get confused.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but that's how I feel.

 

[Eddie]

I honestly find the Iceman thing amusing more than horrible. It's still pretty funny that X2 is his favorite superhero movie and Iceman's a main character, yet he thought Shawn Ashmore was a recast apparently (he claimed there had been a few different actors to play the role). Even funnier when you consider that Shawn Ashmore also played the character in one of the totally unrelated cartoons. Throw in that the Iceman bit in the interview was basically justification for Quicksilver in DoFP (in the interview where he thinks that can coexist with AoU Quicksilver) and you have to admit he sounds like a bit of a doofus. I totally get that he was probably nervous though. He was kind of thrown into all this promotion stuff last minute.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Whether this starts filming, or is canceled in the next few weeks, there is only one outcome for this film:

The rights reverting to Marvel.

 

[EssayM]

I honestly find the Iceman thing amusing more than horrible. It's still pretty funny that X2 is his favorite superhero movie and Iceman's a main character, yet he thought Shawn Ashmore was a recast apparently (he claimed there had been a few different actors to play the role). Even funnier when you consider that Shawn Ashmore also played the character in one of the totally unrelated cartoons. Throw in that the Iceman bit in the interview was basically justification for Quicksilver in DoFP (in the interview where he thinks that can coexist with AoU Quicksilver) and you have to admit he sounds like a bit of a doofus. I totally get that he was probably nervous though. He was kind of thrown into all this promotion stuff last minute.

He was? Maybe I need to rewatch it, but I don't remember him doing much of anything in X2. Even in TLS, he only had a couple big scenes, IIRC.

1. On 'tone', Kinberg says the film will be closer to Chronicle than Spider-Man. For me, as a Fantastic Four Fan, the tone of Chrinicle isn't close to the what made me fall in love with the FF.

2. Kinberg says this will be an origin story. I didn't fall in love with the FF because of their origin. Their origin is backstory - not a film in itself. Kirby and Lee devoted a couple pages to it and then got to what really defined the FF - Amazing adventures. An origin story is not the Fantastic Four. It's a waste of $100 million dollars. If they don't make an effort to capture the elements that made the FF special in this film, we very likely won't get a sequel because the audience will walk out thinking: "What was so special about that?" Films like Spider-Man and Iron Man gave us origins but then gave us the characters we knew and loved from the comics before it was over. They didn't say: "Come back in two years and then maybe, possibly, if we feel like it, we'll give you what you paid for this time."

3. Kinberg says this will be a 'coming of age' story. Huh?!?! What?!?! What does that have to do with the FF?!?! I never picked up an FF comic-book as a kid and said: "Wow! That was great! I loved how it was a 'coming of age' story."

4. Kinberg says Doom will get powers with the FF - as he did in the first FF movie and as he did in Ultimate FF. That's not Dr. Doom. That's a big reason so many fans were turned off by the first film and now they're going to turn around and do the same thing again?!?! UFF should not even be considered as a valid source material if they want to please FF fans. FF fans want FF, not UFF.

As an FF fan, there was almost nothing Kinberg said that made me feel good about this project and a whole lot he said that makes me far less interested in this film than I was before he spoke.

I'm nearly done. It seems there's very little for me to look forward to.

They seem to just want to make a film that has little or nothing to do with the FF. If I want that, there are 100's of other choices.

1. When did he say that? It seemed to me like he said it would be a mix of the two, not favoring one or the other.

2. and 3. Well, it's a reboot, what did you expect? Of course they're going to do an origin story, that's just what Hollywood does. That's no indication that it will be terrible or unfaithful to the source material.

4. I should probably reread the interview, because I don't remember him saying that at all.

 

[EssayM]

Whether this starts filming, or is canceled in the next few weeks, there is only one outcome for this film:

The rights reverting to Marvel.

Or, y'know, the film being surprisingly successful and creating a successful franchise for Fox. Either one.

 

[The Guard]

I don't understand why people are pretending that Kinberg has revealed anything really new. Pretty much anything he said can already be gleaned from what we've already heard, or is at least somewhat obvious. I dunno, I think it sounds okay, it's all in the execution.

 

[Brutalitops]

He was? Maybe I need to rewatch it, but I don't remember him doing much of anything in X2. Even in TLS, he only had a couple big scenes, IIRC.



1. When did he say that? It seemed to me like he said it would be a mix of the two, not favoring one or the other.

2. and 3. Well, it's a reboot, what did you expect? Of course they're going to do an origin story, that's just what Hollywood does. That's no indication that it will be terrible or unfaithful to the source material.

4. I should probably reread the interview, because I don't remember him saying that at all.

In a different interview he backtracks and says it is more in the tone of Chronicle than Spider-Man.

 

[EssayM]

In a different interview he backtracks and says it is more in the tone of Chronicle than Spider-Man.

Link?

 

[jaymes_e06]

I don't understand why people are pretending that Kinberg has revealed anything really new. Pretty much anything he said can already be gleaned from what we've already heard, or is at least somewhat obvious. I dunno, I think it sounds okay, it's all in the execution.

No he really didn't but his words just reiterate what I didn't like about this project from the beginning.

 

[Brutalitops]

Link?

I'll try and find it.

EDIT: Here is a link to geektyrant that has the quote. It was from an IGN interview, I'm sure you can find it somewhere on their website--it is an actual video so it's not a misquote.

http://geektyrant.com/news/fantastic-four-reboot-will-be-a-coming-of-age-story

 

[Krystal]

To those who have an open mind about this project...............


what could you hear or see about this movie that would turn you off?


I've been a fan since 1967 and I haven't found anything about this that gives me hope. I admit I am a fan of classic 1961 to mid 1980's FF.
I have know enough about it that it clearly won't be that version.

Is there anything you could discover about this movie that ruins it for you BEFORE seeing it in theater and saying, "It wasn't very good."

 

[Eddie]

He was? Maybe I need to rewatch it, but I don't remember him doing much of anything in X2. Even in TLS, he only had a couple big scenes, IIRC.

His "coming out" scene was one of the big scenes in the movie. Thematically, it really pushes the "Mutants as a gay metaphor" thing the writers have admitted has been a part of the X-films. From a summer blockbuster perspective, it leads into one of the big action scenes, Pyro versus the cops. Fox promoted Iceman quite a bit in that era, too. Iceman was even playable (voiced by Shawn Ashmore) in that game tie-in that was supposed to bridge the gap between X2 and The Last Stand.

Or, y'know, the film being surprisingly successful and creating a successful franchise for Fox. Either one.

If some release dates don't change, the movie is almost guaranteed to flop domestically. Even if it's good it will have a tough time competing with Pixar, a new Jurassic Park (starring Chris Pratt, who's kinda big right now), and Ted 2. If Fox really wants it to succeed they really shouldn't be sending it out to die. The old release date (before those delays that "didn't happen") was much better.

 

[EssayM]

I'll try and find it.

EDIT: Here is a link to geektyrant that has the quote. It was from an IGN interview, I'm sure you can find it somewhere on their website--it is an actual video so it's not a misquote.

http://geektyrant.com/news/fantastic-four-reboot-will-be-a-coming-of-age-story

Thanks. I hadn't seen that part of it before.

1. He says "More in the direction of Chronicle, than in the direction of the original Fantastic Four movies", not "more Chronicle than Spider-Man".

2. I don't actually mind Doom being "altered" in the same experiment, so long as it's written better than in Story's film and UFF. If they don't give him too many powers and still make him a megalomaniac tech genius, I think it should be okay.

EDIT: Watched the video, and I noticed that he mentioned that, while they would be drawing "some elements" from UFF, they would also be drawing from "all over the place" in the FF canon. So there's that.

 

[Krystal]

Thanks. I hadn't seen that part of it before.

1. He says "More in the direction of Chronicle, than in the direction of the original Fantastic Four movies", not "more Chronicle than Spider-Man".

2. I don't actually mind Doom being "altered" in the same experiment, so long as it's written better than in Story's film and UFF. If they don't give him too many powers and still make him a megalomaniac tech genius, I think it should be okay.

Okay. so changing his origin AGAIN is just fine with some folks. That whole comic origin was lame anyway---gotta modern it up and save time/money by combining the origins of all the characters to one event. Who's got time for a separate origin for the villain?

 

[Eddie]

This is exactly why I didn't want Doom as the villain. It does make a certain amount of sense to tie the heroes' origin in with the villain, but we've seen that with Doom. It didn't work out so well. Pick a more appropriate villain (I say keep the space exploration origin and bring in the Skrulls), and tease Doom for the sequel.

 

[Krystal]

This is exactly why I didn't want Doom as the villain. It does make a certain amount of sense to tie the heroes' origin in with the villain, but we've seen that with Doom. It didn't work out so well. Pick a more appropriate villain (I say keep the space exploration origin and bring in the Skrulls), and tease Doom for the sequel.

SPACE EXPLORATION" !!!!!!

What about this project gives you hope that they have grand enough dreams/ambitions to do the classic origin and battle a race of aliens from outer space??????????

 

[Eddie]

SPACE EXPLORATION" !!!!!!

What about this project gives you hope that they have grand enough dreams/ambitions to do the classic origin and battle a race of aliens from outer space??????????

Absolutely nothing. My dream FF movie will never be made by Fox. Still, though. The Fantastic Four getting zapped by Cosmic Rays, discovering the Skrull invasion, and teaming up for an epic battle against the Super Skrull to prove that the strength of their "family" is mightier than the strength of a lone warrior with their powers would be awesome.

 

[EssayM]

This is exactly why I didn't want Doom as the villain. It does make a certain amount of sense to tie the heroes' origin in with the villain, but we've seen that with Doom. It didn't work out so well. Pick a more appropriate villain (I say keep the space exploration origin and bring in the Skrulls), and tease Doom for the sequel.

Maybe that's because those other times weren't written well. Maybe with a better writer and director, it could work better.

 

[EssayM]

SPACE EXPLORATION" !!!!!!

What about this project gives you hope that they have grand enough dreams/ambitions to do the classic origin and battle a race of aliens from outer space??????????

Absolutely nothing. My dream FF movie will never be made by Fox. Still, though. The Fantastic Four getting zapped by Cosmic Rays, discovering the Skrull invasion, and teaming up for an epic battle against the Super Skrull to prove that the strength of their "family" is mightier than the strength of a lone warrior with their powers would be awesome.

TASM was an origin story and featured only the Lizard as the villian.

TASM 2 features both Green Goblins, Electro, and Rhino, and has already sparked plans for Venom and Sinister Six spinoff films.

Why can't this film series eventually go to space again? Especially when Kinberg already implied that it might?

 

[Eddie]

Some villains just shouldn't be forced into the origin. I like the first Burton Batman, but it was a wise decision to hold off on The Joker in the Nolan films. Batman Begins is a perfect example of picking the right villain for an origin while saving the iconic villain for the sequel.