The Dark Knight Rises Nolan...add Robin!!!!!! - Part 1

[Godzilla2014]

The Robin suit has been redesigned countless times over the years. They could easily use the Young Justice suit which is badass if you ask me.

To each his own. You should know though that Nightwing isnt Batman's sidekick, he is his own man. Robin is the sidekick and he's always been a kid.
Therefore she cant be his true ally. Even if she was, she could never offer the same things as Robin. He is his surrogate son, she is his girlfriend or what have you.

I wasn't saying that Nightwing should be Batman's sidekick, I was talking about when the two team up after Dick becomes Nightwing.

In any case they could use the classic robin suit with the scaled panties as his stage suit (to pay tribute to his original design) and give him a more modern suit for his crimefighting career. I'd go with something like Tim's red and green one. Dick's suit should be cheesy and bright, reflecting his character.

Well, I don't want cheesy and bright. I like my Batman gritty and dark.

No offense, but i would say, dump the superhero movies and go watch a realistic cop movie if that's what you re looking for.

You're saying that Robin would need body armor? Give me a ****ing break.

Seriously man.
There have been countless crime drama batman stories with Robin, although you might be right, Robin could have thrown out that atmosphere in TDK.

Name some for me.

That said, Begins felt less of a crime drama and more of a superhero story, and that's the kind of movie i'd like, and the kind of movie that Robin would fit in.

I prefer crime dramas and mysteries because they are less generic.

The colours display total confidence. It shows that even a child, is not scared of you. A man. With a gun. It shows he has nothing to lose, and cannot be scared, unlike you.

That would just get the boy shot.

Actually, the source of the gay jokes is because several psychologists thought that Bruce Wayne was a homosexual and that he was grooming his young friend Dick Grayson. Not, because of Dick Grayson's suit.

Well it didn't help.

Then you completely misunderstand the character. And Batman after Dick was introduced.

I do understand the character. I definitely understand the way the character changed after Robin.

Batman's moral code:

Those who are Crime Killers (Catwoman/ Red Hood)= Villains
Those who are Crime Fighters (Robin, Batgirl)= Allies

You misunderstand Catwoman. She doesn't kill people.

Frank Miller likes the character of Robin. He has got two mini series that follow the origin of Robin in his universe.

All-Star Batman and Robin is terrible, but to be fair that more to do with the horrible characterizations for Batman and most of the supporting cast than Robin himself.

Anyway, I don't see how Robin would've worked in The Dark Knight, because we have no idea how he would have been utilised. But Robin fits just fine in crime dramas. Read some of the more recent Batman comics that detail how Dick didn't realise how Bruce protected him from some of the more horrible things in Gotham and how he realises he has to protect Damian from these sights.

Ok, that sounds interesting. Mind giving me specific issues or TPBs?

And another thing people have to realise is. When Dick decides to become a crimefighter, he is going to do it whether Batman likes it or not. Dick then finds out Bruce is Batman, he then has the leverage, at this point, Bruce means nothing to him. So Bruce trains Dick, in the comics it is for around a year, before he even lets him go to GCPD and go on stakeouts with him. He also trains him for hours every day and doesn't let him go out on patrol if his grades start to slip.

So I am supposed to believe that Batman would let Dick Grayson extort him into letting him be his sidekick.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I think that he would at least have to justify his costume design, like he did with Batman.

He never 'justified' Batman's costume, merely explained where and how he acquired it. The functions of each of his costume items are dubious at best, a gliding cape? For what, funsies? There's no reason to glide from rooftop to rooftop other than it's a cool visual consistent with character from the comics who hangs around the Gotham City skyline, like a bat, monitoring the streets. Likely you'd get similar 'justifications' with Robin's costume, no matter how faithful it was or wasn't. Batman is not a practical method of fighting crime, never has been, never will be.

 

[Unmasked]

They should introduce Dick Grayson and as the films progressed he would learn of the Batman and join him, he doesn't have to be a crime fighter that soon, for example, he could be introduced with 15 years old and only help bruce the same way Lucius did in the dark knight, he could only become Robin when he's like 18 ot 19, during that time Bruce should teach him.

Funny, I alreayd mentioned it in this page

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Both of these "answers" amount to, "because that's the way it is and has been for 70 years", which only succeeds in creating an endless loop of questions and non-answers. It's pretty much like restating the question.

It's the same reason Batman's costume looks the way it does. It's the same reason Two-Face has an unrealistic face injury. It's the same reason Joker dresses like a clown. It's the same reason Gary Oldman grew out a mustache. It's the same reason the League of Shadows (Assassins) was able to infiltrate a well policed city and take it over -- because that's how they're portrayed in the comics. Batman lives in a very manufactured world, and while Nolan may have duped a few of you into thinking his was 'realistic', it really isn't. Most comic movies are reflections of the comics, and frequently the changes have less to do with removing what doesn't 'make sense' and more to do with what story that particular writer wants to tell. What 'realism' do you gain by giving the X-Men bland leather jump-suits as costumes? None really. The story is just as fanastical. Batman's suit isn't altered because spandex isn't 'realistic', it's altered because spandex doesn't look good on camera. That decision was entirely about movie aesthetics. Michael Keaton, Christian Bale, and Val Kilmer would look like Adam West's Batman if they ever donned spandex - whereas Lyle Waggoner was actually burly enough to make that costume imposing.

I can buy that Batman is as scary as he is, but why would he need a partner who is seemingly intentionally non-threatening.

You can buy it? Why? Because the movie using lighting, writing and camera tricks to make him seem more threatening than he actually would look if he was walking down the street? Yeah, they could easily do the same thing with Robin.

Generally, Nolan sought to justify those things, and he did.

No. He. Didn't. He used some very clever bullsh** (and it was bullsh**) to explain how Batman could accomplish the things he does NOT WHY he chose to dress like a Bat - the movie's only justification for that was he was afraid of bats and thought they would make a good symbol. The truth is, they wouldn't, and his costume would be more effective at entertaining children's birthday parties than it would be fighting crime. For example the costume being "bullet proof" - I assume you know when a costume is "bullet proof" it doesn't just mean you can casually waltz into gun fire, in fact you'll still run an overwhelming risk of injury or death -- it's just that when wearing kevlar, your chances of dying from low caliber or medium caliber weapons is greatly diminished. You're still going to feel the impact and velocity of the bullet though, and probably won't be getting back up to go fight the Joker.

I don't really understand the whole nickname thing. It just raises the question of the origin of the nickname. Why would he be associated with a robin, instead of an eagle or something?

Cause he's not What's so hard to understand about this. You know what else is not that threatening, a Wolverine.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Look at these characters from old superhero movies,etc, and tell me if they look COOL or CAMPY?

Thats through the unbiased campy tone straight from the comics in live action. Things work in the pages,that dont in real life.

Now tell me if a character who looks like this in a realistic world,that takes itself seriously.

Wants to hang around with someone who most people want looking like this?

Like anyone in their right mind will let that happen,whoever is in charge.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I wasn't saying that Nightwing should be Batman's sidekick, I was talking about when the two team up after Dick becomes Nightwing.

And just skip a huge part of Dick's life and Bruce's relationship with him.

Well, I don't want cheesy and bright. I like my Batman gritty and dark.

That is not Batman, as per Bill Finger and DC.

You're saying that Robin would need body armour? Give me a ****ing break.

Of course he would need armour. To say otherwise is silly, he wears it in comics, he wears it in cartoons, he should wear it in the films.

Name some for me.

One I really enjoyed was an issue of Tec. I can't remember the issue but it had Batman go up against Facade, a new villain, due to him being previously unknown he has to protect Tim. However Tim shows up just in the nick of time and helps Bruce capture Facade. If anyone can get the number up it Wilkie be appreciated as I would like to buy that one again.

That would just get the boy shot.

That is what Dick thought (he was enquiring as to why he shouldn't use guns) and Bruce explained to him that basically people are stupid. If Dick were to go up against them, the individual may be able to rationalise that sure, he just a guy in armour but as a group they will be panicked and will shoot at anything moving which will always be there accomplices as Dick should always stay out of direct gunfire.

Well it didn't help.

Bruce could have been banging every woman he came across and it wouldn't have helpled the situation.

I do understand the character. I definitely understand the way the character changed after Robin.

So you realise Bruce found a way to help someone who was in his situation without them having to resort to his empty life. That he enjoyed having him there, he helper share the burden?

You misunderstand Catwoman. She doesn't kill people.

Really?

All-Star Batman and Robin is terrible, but to be fair that more to do with the horrible characterizations for Batman and most of the supporting cast than Robin himself.

Actually Gordon and Robin are written well, Batman seems more unhinged but it's because Batman has gotten to him there are some very good scenes like when Batman almost breaks down to tears in the cave when Dick talks about his parents death and when he forces him to say goodbye, realising he's trapped him in a life with no fulfilment. Its like they were written by a different man.

OK, that sounds interesting. Mind giving me specific issues or TPBs?

Not sure of them right now but I believe it was the first arc of Streets of Gotham under the BATMAN REBORN banner. I'll ask the comic section just bring up Damian stabbing Zsasz should be enough.

So I am supposed to believe that Batman would let Dick Grayson extort him into letting him be his sidekick.

He has no choice, he can't let Dick die, it is against his moral code and he can't refuse him as he will go to jail. So he instead of letting him die he offers guidance, he makes sure Dick knows that he will most likely never leave and that there will be no happy ending for him. He teaches him what he knows and adds that to Dick already amazing physical prowess.

But for the sake of Nolan's "teh reelizms" have Dick be around 16, give him and Bruce the brotherly relationship, let him already be a proficient fighter keep him training in the cave for a year and give him Dick's Batman's taser gloves and Tim's bo staff.

 

[AnorexicBatman]

Thats through the unbiased campy tone straight from the comics in live action. Things work in the pages,that dont in real life.

Now tell me if a character who looks like this in a realistic world,that takes itself seriously.

Wants to hang around with someone who most people want looking like this?

Like anyone in their right mind will let that happen,whoever is in charge.

THAT'S A STUPID ARGUMENT!
As if Nolan's Robin would wear that outfit!
Because Batman's suit is grey cloth right?

 

[Mr. Earle]

He never 'justified' Batman's costume, merely explained where and how he acquired it. The functions of each of his costume items are dubious at best, a gliding cape? For what, funsies? There's no reason to glide from rooftop to rooftop other than it's a cool visual consistent with character from the comics who hangs around the Gotham City skyline, like a bat, monitoring the streets. Likely you'd get similar 'justifications' with Robin's costume, no matter how faithful it was or wasn't. Batman is not a practical method of fighting crime, never has been, never will be.

It's the same reason Batman's costume looks the way it does. It's the same reason Two-Face has an unrealistic face injury. It's the same reason Joker dresses like a clown. It's the same reason Gary Oldman grew out a mustache. It's the same reason the League of Shadows (Assassins) was able to infiltrate a well policed city and take it over -- because that's how they're portrayed in the comics. Batman lives in a very manufactured world, and while Nolan may have duped a few of you into thinking his was 'realistic', it really isn't. Most comic movies are reflections of the comics, and frequently the changes have less to do with removing what doesn't 'make sense' and more to do with what story that particular writer wants to tell. What 'realism' do you gain by giving the X-Men bland leather jump-suits as costumes? None really. The story is just as fanastical. Batman's suit isn't altered because spandex isn't 'realistic', it's altered because spandex doesn't look good on camera. That decision was entirely about movie aesthetics. Michael Keaton, Christian Bale, and Val Kilmer would look like Adam West's Batman if they ever donned spandex - whereas Lyle Waggoner was actually burly enough to make that costume imposing.


You can buy it? Why? Because the movie using lighting, writing and camera tricks to make him seem more threatening than he actually would look if he was walking down the street? Yeah, they could easily do the same thing with Robin.

No. He. Didn't. He used some very clever bullsh** (and it was bullsh**) to explain how Batman could accomplish the things he does NOT WHY he chose to dress like a Bat - the movie's only justification for that was he was afraid of bats and thought they would make a good symbol. The truth is, they wouldn't, and his costume would be more effective at entertaining children's birthday parties than it would be fighting crime. For example the costume being "bullet proof" - I assume you know when a costume is "bullet proof" it doesn't just mean you can casually waltz into gun fire, in fact you'll still run an overwhelming risk of injury or death -- it's just that when wearing kevlar, your chances of dying from low caliber or medium caliber weapons is greatly diminished. You're still going to feel the impact and velocity of the bullet though, and probably won't be getting back up to go fight the Joker.

Cause he's not What's so hard to understand about this. You know what else is not that threatening, a Wolverine.

Good posts.

 

[Saint]

Edit: Nevermind, I'm not wasting any more of my time in this thread. Somebody call me when the dishonest trolls stop shouting "LOL, YOU WANT ROBIN 2 LOOK CAMPY, LOL!!"

 

[Mr. Earle]

Well, I don't want cheesy and bright. I like my Batman gritty and dark.

Didnt you hear me? I was talking about Dick, not Bruce.

Name some for me.

Streets of Gotham, and Detective comics are filled with them. There's also Knightfall, War Games, Robin Year One, and others.

I prefer crime dramas and mysteries because they are less generic.

Genres arent generic, but individual movies can be generic. Begins was a superhero movie but it was hardly generic.

You misunderstand Catwoman. She doesn't kill people.

Not usually but she's killed Black Mask.

All-Star Batman and Robin is terrible, but to be fair that more to do with the horrible characterizations for Batman and most of the supporting cast than Robin himself.

Yes it is, the point is that even Miller who is famous for his serious Batman novels has used Robin in all of them except Year One for obvious reasons. Even in the super gritty TDKR there's a Robin.

Ok, that sounds interesting. Mind giving me specific issues or TPBs?

Morrison's Batman and Robin 1-16 and a few stories in Streets of Gotham. You should read Morrison's whole run on Batman though. Its amazing.

So I am supposed to believe that Batman would let Dick Grayson extort him into letting him be his sidekick.

No. See in the original take Dick discovers the cave and Batman is all like "let me make you into a superhero". In every modern iteration they went with a more realistic origin. "Robin Year One" is fantastic in this aspect.

 

[Mr. Earle]

This is how i'd introduce Robin:

- Bruce goes to circus.
- Dick's parents die.
- Bruce attends funeral and tells Dick that his future is financially secure and that they'll find him a good family to live with.
- Dick gets a family but at nights he leaves the house to search for his parents' killer.
- Runs into Batman a couple of times and tells him he'll find and kill him.
- Batman gives him a lecture on morality.
- Because the movie would be boring with just mobsters and Zucco as the villains, Zucco is tangled up in a greater supervillain scheme. Like, he's working for Black Mask or whatever and to prove his worth he pulled off the high profile Grayson murders.
- Batman and Dick individually close in on Zucco.
- Batman deals with the main villain while Dick chases down a fleeing Zucco. Dick uses his circus skills to stay mobile and out of harm's way. He doesnt know how to fight.
- He has the chance to kill Zucco but doesnt because of what Batman told him earlier.
- Bruce and Dick realise that Dick cant live a normal life. His trauma has changed him. He's always been a showman, and being a superhero isnt far from it. That's the core of Dick Grayson. He's always been a superhero. That's his main job.

- Bruce takes Dick in, and trains him.
- "You know how to fight a few men, i can teach you how to engage 600. You know how to disappear, i can teach you to become truly invisible."

- Together they beat the main villain in the movie's third act.

 

[cin0]

Look at these characters from old superhero movies,etc, and tell me if they look COOL or CAMPY?

Thats through the unbiased campy tone straight from the comics in live action. Things work in the pages,that dont in real life.

Now tell me if a character who looks like this in a realistic world,that takes itself seriously.

Wants to hang around with someone who most people want looking like this?

Like anyone in their right mind will let that happen,whoever is in charge.

You ever think that's because all of those were done between the 60's and 90's during a time where graphics and even costume designs were much simpler.

The BB design is in the early 2k's where things are more advanced. Back then people didn't think of that stuff as campy or lame. Try and tell me that Batman in '89 was campy, but that suit would not work at all in Nolan's version despite being the oposite of just about all those pictures.

 

[cin0]

Di
Streets of Gotham, and Detective comics are filled with them. There's also Knightfall, War Games, Robin Year One, and others.

I remember Dark Victory being mentioned a long time ago, too. But I don't know exactly what you two are talking about.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Dark Victory introduced Dick but i cant remember if we see him as Robin, probably because i fell asleep halfway through. That book was boring as hell.

 

[cin0]

Yeah he was Robin midway through.

 

[Godzilla2014]

This is how i'd introduce Robin:

- Bruce goes to circus.
- Dick's parents die.
- Bruce attends funeral and tells Dick that his future is financially secure and that they'll find him a good family to live with.
- Dick gets a family but at nights he leaves the house to search for his parents' killer.
- Runs into Batman a couple of times and tells him he'll find and kill him.
- Batman gives him a lecture on morality.
- Because the movie would be boring with just mobsters and Zucco as the villains, Zucco is tangled up in a greater supervillain scheme. Like, he's working for Black Mask or whatever and to prove his worth he pulled off the high profile Grayson murders.
- Batman and Dick individually close in on Zucco.
- Batman deals with the main villain while Dick chases down a fleeing Zucco. Dick uses his circus skills to stay mobile and out of harm's way. He doesnt know how to fight.
- He has the chance to kill Zucco but doesnt because of what Batman told him earlier.
- Bruce and Dick realise that Dick cant live a normal life. His trauma has changed him. He's always been a showman, and being a superhero isnt far from it. That's the core of Dick Grayson. He's always been a superhero. That's his main job.

- Bruce takes Dick in, and trains him.
- "You know how to fight a few men, i can teach you how to engage 600. You know how to disappear, i can teach you to become truly invisible."

- Together they beat the main villain in the movie's third act.

Most of that sounds good, but have Dick appear in a few scenes or so that we know who he is before his parents die, and we, the audience, can actually become more attached to his parents so we can know who the parents that Dick lost were, like we did with Bruce's parents. Sure we would know that they were circus performers who died, but rarely, and never from the Batman stories I've read and seen, do we know what they are like when they aren't doing acrobatics. Also, have them use a safety net, which is also sabotaged. I think it would make more sense and be more tragic, in that the safety precautions meant to keep them safe in such incidents failed them.

 

[cin0]

I think Bruce should have some sort of relationship with Dick's parents first and ends up having to take him in for personal reasons. It would be cool if he doesn't want that responsibility at first but then ends up wanting him.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Well I think with whole 'PC' thing nowadays,it makes more sense for Bruce to be friends with the Grayson's than just have Wayne adopt a strangers kid who he saw in a circus act,where the parents were killed and he takes the disturbed and vulnerable child into his home...Where the child becomes his 'ward'

 

[Godzilla2014]

Well I think with whole 'PC' thing nowadays,it makes more sense for Bruce to be friends with the Grayson's than just have Wayne adopt a strangers kid who he saw in a circus act,where the parents were killed and he takes the disturbed and vulnerable child into his home...Where the child becomes his 'ward'

Also, let's not have Dick be Bruce's ward, have Bruce adopt him as his son.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Ward or son,people in and out of the movie are still going to make jokes that he's ******* the lad,if not done in a 'PC' way

 

[KRIM]

Well I think with whole 'PC' thing nowadays,it makes more sense for Bruce to be friends with the Grayson's than just have Wayne adopt a strangers kid who he saw in a circus act,where the parents were killed and he takes the disturbed and vulnerable child into his home...Where the child becomes his 'ward'

No. I'd rather not have an insecure and deluded minority, be catered to in any shape or fashion.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

There's a lot of dishonest nonsense and purposeful obtuseness going on in this thread.

1. Please use costumes from the current generation of adaptations to prove your point. The 70s Spider-Man looked like **** because it was cheap and crappy, not because it looked like Spider-Man. Sam Raimi's Spider-Man looks exactly like the comic and it's ****ing awesome.

2. Enough of the semantics. Catwoman is not, typically, "a killer." Referencing the one murder she commited doesn't change the guy's point. Otherwise, you better consider Nightwing a killer, too, since he killed the Joker, and allowed Blockbuster to be murdered.

 

[Secret Fawful]

2. Enough of the semantics. Catwoman is not, typically, "a killer." Referencing the one murder she commited doesn't change the guy's point. Otherwise, you better consider Nightwing a killer, too, since he killed the Joker, and allowed Blockbuster to be murdered.

Didn't he just horribly beat the Joker to near-death?

 

[Rodrigo90]

Well in my defense. When I made that post about the costumes, I was half asleep and half joking

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Didn't he just horribly beat the Joker to near-death?

If I recall correctly, Robin checked his pulse to find him dead. Batman was able to resucitate him, though.