The Dark Knight Rises Nolan...add Robin!!!!!! - Part 1

[ModestMr.Green]

If he hadn't already recovered so much from it (at least, on the surface, considering the way Bruce continues his business as usual right after the Joker makes his guest appearance on Gotham Tonight), I could see Nolan's Bruce having Robin as a way of dealing with the traumatic experiences of TDK. He's lost the 'love of his life' in Rachel's death, he lost his chance at a normal life due to the loss of Harvey. At this point, he's had his 'little push,' and he feels he has nothing left to lose, so he takes Dick in as a way of grabbing at straws and keeping some tie to the 'real world' as he steadily loses himself in Batman.

Bruce would train him in the martial arts as a means of teaching the boy self-control, because he knows that there must be a thirst for vengeance within him. As far as Bruce is concerned, he's giving both himself and Dick a vent. Dick takes on a mask not because he knows he's living with Batman, but because of that recurring theme of escalation. Eventually, this all leads to a scene like Batman stopping Harvey from killing Schiff, but with Zucco. However, Batman is stopping Dick for his own selfish reasons, not because he sees hope in the boy. One thing leads to another, Bruce grows to have real care for Dick, but at this point it's too late and he sees that he has set someone else on the path, etc.

tl;dr: Bruce uses Dick to get over his recent trauma, Robin is a regrettable sideeffect.

I'm not a professional writer by any means, but that's my take.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I'm basing his characterisation loosely on TDKR. Where he's pretty screwed up, not generally psychopathic. Just that he feel's strongly more about Vengeance rather than Justice, until the end. That's where he tones down a bit for the sake of the path he was heading down.

Which is, to me, a much less likable incarnation of the character. I would say that the Nolan/Bale incarnation is one of the most admirable dark incarnations of the character. I don't know, I think I prefer my Batman to not be insane, outside of a TDKR-esque situation.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Which is, to me, a much less likable incarnation of the character. I would say that the Nolan/Bale incarnation is one of the most admirable dark incarnations of the character. I don't know, I think I prefer my Batman to not be insane, outside of a TDKR-esque situation.

The way I would decribe how I've wrote him. I wouldn't say he's a TDKR or All Star Batman, in the sense as being psychopathic. But I need him to be screwed up to a certain extent to allow Dick into his life, and Bruce Wayne in the comics is always rebellious and back answers people. He has conflicts here and there with the likes of Superman, not caring what anyone else thinks of him.
But I am writing him sympathetically. Where Alfred tells him that training Dick to be like him is wrong, but he justifies it by claiming that what happened to the both of them is wrong and its their responsibility as victims to stop it from happening again to anyone else.

And by the end, he tones down in his ways, through Mr. Freeze. Bruce realises not everything about criminals is evil, or black and white regarding them as he always thought.

 

[ModestMr.Green]

Perhaps this isn't the right place to discuss it, but if Mr. Freeze is to appear on film again, I'd like to see that vengeful Mr. Freeze we saw in The New Batman Adventures. Freeze after he lost his wife, wanting everyone to experience his pain. It could potentially make for an interesting overarching theme about coping with great loss (e.g. Batman fighting crime vs. Freeze burning the world), and it would differentiate the new Freeze greatly from his B&R counterpart.

 

[shamon]

I could see him but only as dick no robin .

 

[Rodrigo90]

Perhaps this isn't the right place to discuss it, but if Mr. Freeze is to appear on film again, I'd like to see that vengeful Mr. Freeze we saw in The New Batman Adventures. Freeze after he lost his wife, wanting everyone to experience his pain. It could potentially make for an interesting overarching theme about coping with great loss (e.g. Batman fighting crime vs. Freeze burning the world), and it would differentiate the new Freeze greatly from his B&R counterpart.

Yeah, thats what I like as well. In the script, which states Freeze's origin. He turns himself into the way he is, not through an accident. Because Nora begins to deteriorate in her cryo state, and since Fries is a wanted man in the US after a huge embezzlement, he becomes Freeze to aid Nora. He starts kidnapping his old science partners who worked with him on Nora's Cryopreservation, and one of them is working at Wayne Enterprises.

It's ironic in a sense he becomes what he is, because he states before the mutation, he is keeping Nora 'frozen' between life and death.

The theme of the movie is loss. The effects it has on Batman, Robin and Freeze. Freeze can't bear to lose his wife, and will do anything to save her. And I write what the mutating serum feels like for him - "It burns like hell"
He becomes Freeze purely to feel the pain that Nora is going through, and inflict it unto others, to make them understand his reasons, since he's not evil.

 

[The Guard]

I'll dive in here soon, but...

God forbid Robin just be used the way he has thematically worked for decades in the comics and adapted to be slightly more serious/tonally appropriate for whatever film he's in.

 

[Lando81]

Robin should never be in Nolan's Bat-Films. I'd love to see Robin on screen again eventually, but never in a Nolan directed film.

 

[regwec]

Sorry to hear that you don't think Nolan could make a success of him.

 

[hatebox]

Assuming this is Nolan's last Batman film it's a moot point as far as he's concerned.

I'd have no problem never seeing Robin ever again, but as long as they keep making Bat-films then of course he'll return at some point.

 

[The_Raganork]

Assuming this is Nolan's last Batman film it's a moot point as far as he's concerned.

I'd have no problem never seeing Robin ever again, but as long as they keep making Bat-films then of course he'll return at some point.

Exactly!

People keep suggesting that Nolan could introduce Robin and that Nolanverse could compensate Robin.

But people are so stark raving mad on thinking their ideas are Nolanverse. Nolanverse consist of 3 movies. BB, TDK, TDKR, THATS IT. if he makes a fourth film that'll be included.

Considering where TDK ended I think it's safe to say that Robin won't be in TDKR and therefore not in Nolanverse.

So if Nolanverse is just 3 movies, Robin CANNOT exist in Nolanverse because the story Nolan is telling is about Bruce in his beginnings of Batman and clearly the characterization of Robin (and Bruce taking on a partner) is NOT concurrent with the characterization we've seen on film.

Now before you start replying to me "BUT AFTER TDKR IT'S POSSIBLE" yes it is but, anything after TDKR is NOT Nolanverse; it should go without saying that Batman movies not made by Nolan are NOT Nolanverse and since none of us here are Nolan we cannot surmise what Nolanverse will be (if we could we'd know what TDKR was about by now) any idea you have about Batman 4 are not Nolanverse it's NolanYOURverse it's not pure and it's something new

Just as much as if I assumed something in Batman 4 it would not be Nolanverse either.

So the final conclusion from all of this is that Robin is NOT possible in Nolanverse

But totally possible in a grounded universe similar to the style Nolan has created.

(Thank you to Krim and our debate for helping me make this answer more concise and to the point)

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Exactly!

People keep suggesting that Nolan could introduce Robin and that Nolanverse could compensate Robin.

But people are so stark raving mad on thinking their ideas are Nolanverse. Nolanverse consist of 3 movies. BB, TDK, TDKR, THATS IT. if he makes a fourth film that'll be included.

Considering where TDK ended I think it's safe to say that Robin won't be in TDKR and therefore not in Nolanverse.

So if Nolanverse is just 3 movies, Robin CANNOT exist in Nolanverse because the story Nolan is telling is about Bruce in his beginnings of Batman and clearly the characterization of Robin (and Bruce taking on a partner) is NOT concurrent with the characterization we've seen on film.

Now before you start replying to me "BUT AFTER TDKR IT'S POSSIBLE" yes it is but, anything after TDKR is NOT Nolanverse; it should go without saying that Batman movies not made by Nolan are NOT Nolanverse and since none of us here are Nolan we cannot surmise what Nolanverse will be (if we could we'd know what TDKR was about by now) any idea you have about Batman 4 are not Nolanverse it's NolanYOURverse it's not pure and it's something new

Just as much as if I assumed something in Batman 4 it would not be Nolanverse either.

So the final conclusion from all of this is that Robin is NOT possible in Nolanverse

But totally possible in a grounded universe similar to the style Nolan has created.

(Thank you to Krim and our debate for helping me make this answer more concise and to the point)

Not that I want Robin in The Dark Knight Rises. I don't think Robin is in The Dark Knight Rises, but equally, I cannot say for sure he is or is not, can you? Therefore that argument is based on a fallacy. And therefore not true.

 

[The_Raganork]

Not that I want Robin in The Dark Knight Rises. I don't think Robin is in The Dark Knight Rises, but equally, I cannot say for sure he is or is not, can you? Therefore that argument is based on a fallacy. And therefore not true.

No; my argument is conditional. Never in there did I say for sure Robin won't be in TDKR.

My argument is very true given the premises given. (and considering Nolan said Robin wouldn't be appearing in any of his films you have a definite reason to believe that)

But it was a good try

 

[El Payaso]

Sorry to hear that you don't think Nolan could make a success of him.

Nolan himself doesn't want to.

Exactly!

People keep suggesting that Nolan could introduce Robin and that Nolanverse could compensate Robin.

But people are so stark raving mad on thinking their ideas are Nolanverse. Nolanverse consist of 3 movies. BB, TDK, TDKR, THATS IT. if he makes a fourth film that'll be included.

Considering where TDK ended I think it's safe to say that Robin won't be in TDKR and therefore not in Nolanverse.

So if Nolanverse is just 3 movies, Robin CANNOT exist in Nolanverse because the story Nolan is telling is about Bruce in his beginnings of Batman and clearly the characterization of Robin (and Bruce taking on a partner) is NOT concurrent with the characterization we've seen on film.

Now before you start replying to me "BUT AFTER TDKR IT'S POSSIBLE" yes it is but, anything after TDKR is NOT Nolanverse; it should go without saying that Batman movies not made by Nolan are NOT Nolanverse and since none of us here are Nolan we cannot surmise what Nolanverse will be (if we could we'd know what TDKR was about by now) any idea you have about Batman 4 are not Nolanverse it's NolanYOURverse it's not pure and it's something new

Just as much as if I assumed something in Batman 4 it would not be Nolanverse either.

So the final conclusion from all of this is that Robin is NOT possible in Nolanverse

But totally possible in a grounded universe similar to the style Nolan has created.

(Thank you to Krim and our debate for helping me make this answer more concise and to the point)

Nolan could have perfectly introduced Robin if he had wanted. Being this a trilogy is not an obstacle to do that. It's just that he didn't want to do it.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

No; my argument is conditional. Never in there did I say for sure Robin won't be in TDKR.

My argument is very true given the premises given. (and considering Nolan said Robin wouldn't be appearing in any of his films you have a definite reason to believe that)

But it was a good try

Quick! Edit your final conclusion then! It speaks in absolutes! :P

 

[BlueLantern]

I don't think there'll be a continuation of the Nolanverse. I have a sneaky feeling that at the end he'll be packing the suit away and that'll be it.

Maybe with a frantic call from Gordon warning him about something new. One can dream.

 

[StarLord]

If Nolan were to introduce Robin in the movie (which I know isn't going to happen) I would like to see something similar to what his father said to him in BB, and of course by Alfred.

Imagine Batman stumbling through a back alley, where a young boy has noticed him and is running scared. Batman staggering, catches up with him when the boy falls down...they chat, asks him what his name is (Richard I think would be used) and offers the boy some help, even though he is in great pain himself.

''Why do we fall Richard?''.....

Meh, whatever.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Nolan himself doesn't want to.





Nolan could have perfectly introduced Robin if he had wanted. Being this a trilogy is not an obstacle to do that. It's just that he didn't want to do it.

Exactly. If the Batman stories Nolan wants to tell don't call for Robin to be involved or even appear, then he isn't nor should be required to.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Of course, being an origin story Robin isn't required yet. If Nolan wanted to, he could have an Easter egg in there, that most people wouldn't notice or care for, except us. Robin should be introduced with the "reinvention".

 

[The_Raganork]

Nolan himself doesn't want to.





Nolan could have perfectly introduced Robin if he had wanted. Being this a trilogy is not an obstacle to do that. It's just that he didn't want to do it.

I never said it was never possible.

I said it's not possible

 

[El Payaso]

I never said it was never possible.

I said it's not possible

Well it is.

 

[The_Raganork]

Well it is.

I would hope you'd have some more damning evidence other than three words.

How is Robin going to be in TDKR?

 

[Doc Holliday]

I would hope you'd have some more damning evidence other than three words.

How is Robin going to be in TDKR?

He's not, plain and simple. Nolan has outright stated it.

But what I think El Payaso is trying to say is that he could still introduce Robin at this point in the trilogy and execute it well. Saying it's "not possible" at this point in the trilogy from a theoretical standpoint is incorrect.

 

[Two-Face]

There's Batman, Bane, Catwoman, Gordon etc... possible another adventure for Bruce as well. So I don't think Robin would fit in TDKR with all these characters.

 

[The_Raganork]

He's not, plain and simple. Nolan has outright stated it.

But what I think El Payaso is trying to say is that he could still introduce Robin at this point in the trilogy and execute it well. Saying it's "not possible" at this point in the trilogy from a theoretical standpoint is incorrect.

Then I'd suggest going back to my post where I mentioned my statement was conditional. If Robin is not in TDKR then he is not possible in Nolanverse

No; my argument is conditional. Never in there did I say for sure Robin won't be in TDKR.

My argument is very true given the premises given. (and considering Nolan said Robin wouldn't be appearing in any of his films you have a definite reason to believe that)

But it was a good try

Furthermore the evidence against Robin in TDKR is damning considering quotes from Nolan; the scope of the film as Two-Face has mentioned and the nature of the story (characterization of the characters and so on) at this point.

So with all that in place it is greatly more possible that Robin will not be in the next film and subsequently not in Nolanverse.

Any going back and saying "Nolan could have fit him here, here and there" is not Nolanverse it's your guesswork and if you're not Nolan than reasonably I can say your guesswork is close enough to have been Nolanverse.