Splinter Cell: Blacklist

[SpideyVille]

Conviction was barely a stealth game. They streamlined it a little too much for my liking but I could get behind the idea because Fisher was a man on fire. It was a very personal story and he was unleashed... this just looks like another generic action game. I guess you'll still be able to stalk and observe guard patterns but it looks like that's an afterthought since Sam can call in air strikes and leap around like he's in the prime of his life.

Even though I haven't finished it, I would imagine that this would sort of be like Deus Ex, where you have the option to play completely in stealth or go out guns blazing. That wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that that's not what Splinter Cell games were based on.

Then the director should have started a new IP inspired by Splinter Cell instead of shaping Splinter Cell to his slick vision. I miss having to creep along to mask my footsteps, and waiting in dark shadows so I'm not seen. But to expect the patience that game design requires from this generation of gamers... LOL, I guess it's time to re-install Chaos Theory.

I think this plays a bigger role than anything else. Gamers these days are expecting high action packed games, where the sequences and set pieces are supposed to create some grand experience. But the Splinter Cell games of the past were never able that, They were true stealth games, where you would be penalized for trying to run and gun. But of course, I can't speak for Conviction.

 

[zenith16]

If any thing chief, i bet you they will have reward /achievments and trophys that'll reward players that play in that way even better then those that don't. so i wouldn't worry about it just play how you like to play it. that was what I ment with the patence comment. Those that usually don't like stealth games due to that issue most of them are achiement ****es. they'll eventually have to do it. and those that are just stubborn they don't have to, if they don't want. that the beauty of this. just consintrait on you chief. There's nothing wrong with the creator broading the herizons of their work just as long as they don't lock out their former customers.

 

[Master Chief]

Even though I haven't finished it, I would imagine that this would sort of be like Deus Ex, where you have the option to play completely in stealth or go out guns blazing. That wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that that's not what Splinter Cell games were based on.

I think this plays a bigger role than anything else. Gamers these days are expecting high action packed games, where the sequences and set pieces are supposed to create some grand experience. But the Splinter Cell games of the past were never able that, They were true stealth games, where you would be penalized for trying to run and gun. But of course, I can't speak for Conviction.

Yup. That's the problem pretty much. Basically what happened is an outsider came in and said, "Hey, this character is pretty badass. Why isn't he f**king everybody up?" I did enjoy Conviction, only because of how the gameplay tied into the narrative. But now with Blacklist, I feel like the hardcore fans did about Conviction.

if any thing chief i bet you they will have reward /achievments and trophys that'll reward players that play that even better then those that don't. so i wouldn't worry about it just play how you like to play it. that was what I ment with the patence comment. those that usual don't like stealth games due to that issue most of them are achiement ****es. they'll eventually have to do it. and those that just stubborn they don't have to if they don't want. that the beuty of this. just consintrait on you chief.

Oooh yeah. I do appreciate them keeping the roots in mind. I still kind of want to play it because there's a serious lack of stealth games around and this is better than nothing. But unless they do a lot of post-production to make the VA sound like Ironside I think I'll wait.

 

[zenith16]

I don't know if that new actor can pull off ironside.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I don't know if that new actor can pull off ironside.

He's not going to. The same way Daniel Craig didn't try to act like Pierce Brosnan. Different take on the character.

 

[zenith16]

That's kinda why i said that. that parts not likely. unfortunetly don see that happeing. sorry chief.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Even though I haven't finished it, I would imagine that this would sort of be like Deus Ex, where you have the option to play completely in stealth or go out guns blazing. That wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that that's not what Splinter Cell games were based on.

I fail to see how thats a problem. If the game forced you into action, sure, but its not. Its letting you choose.

I dont care if the game allows me to call in airstrikes. As long as i can still creep up behind dudes and shove a knife in their back, I'm golden.

 

[Master Chief]

I don't know if that new actor can pull off ironside.

Post-production is a magical time.

He's not going. The same way Daniel Craig didn't try to act like Pierce Brosnan. Different take on the character.

I don't know why you're drawing on Bond so heavily in relation to this series but this is clearly supposed to chronologically be the same character from the first game. So much so that they got the VA to impersonate Ironside.

 

[SpideyVille]

I fail to see how thats a problem. If the game forced you into action, sure, but its not. Its letting you choose.

I dont care if the game allows me to call in airstrikes. As long as i can still creep up behind dudes and shove a knife in their back, I'm golden.

I'm not necessarily saying it's a problem, because honestly, one has to wonder how long the same formula could've held up without getting a few tweaks here and there.

But at the same time, I remember seeing the demo and thinking "This is not Splinter Cell, at least not how I remember it." I remember killing was looked at as a last resort for Sam. So its not so much how it plays into the gameplay, but more so with the character. Granted, I'd imagined that Sam has new rules to follow with this new Fourth Echelon.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Post-production is a magical time.



I don't know why you're drawing on Bond so heavily in relation to this series but this is clearly supposed to chronologically be the same character from the first game. So much so that they got the VA to impersonate Ironside.

They did? Dude sounded nothing like Ironside. And I use the Bond analogy because there have been Bond films that alluded to his previous adventures( leading some to believe its the same man or many different men with the same code name) These games have never relied on each other the way other series have, so continuity isn't nearly as important. Complaining about Fisher sounding or moving differently truly is the most reaching complaint one can find, considering this is a video game. Devs find new gameplay elements all the time.

Or they could take the Kojima route......nanobots.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I'm not necessarily saying it's a problem, because honestly, one has to wonder how long the same formula could've held up without getting a few tweaks here and there.

But at the same time, I remember seeing the demo and thinking "This is not Splinter Cell, at least not how I remember it." I remember killing was looked at as a last resort for Sam. So its not so much how it plays into the gameplay, but more so with the character. Granted, I'd imagined that Sam has new rules to follow with this new Fourth Echelon.

Sam has always said he didn't enjoy killing a man, but wouldn't ever hesitate to do so. Killing was more or less a last resort for him because of governmental restraints. He had a direct supervisor, now he's pretty much his own boss, so he's going to be far more off the cuff.

I agree with you on the demo though. What was displayed is not how i would play Splinter Cell. In past games id only kill the people id need to. But the devs have said we will be able to play it like the old games. More so than what was offered in Conviction.

 

[Master Chief]

They did? Dude sounded nothing like Ironside. And I use the Bond analogy because there have been Bond films that alluded to his previous adventures( leading some to believe its the same man or many different men with the same code name) These games have never relied on each other the way other series have, so continuity isn't nearly as important. Complaining about Fisher sounding or moving differently truly is the dumbest complaint one can find, considering this is a video game. Devs find new gameplay elements all the time.

Or they could take the Kojima route......nanobots.

I watch the show he's on and he didn't quite sound like his usual self either, he was pushing the gruff.

Bond is a character that has been interpreted in so many ways that he's even been portrayed in different time periods. They're not even close to being the same thing. If you've been paying attention to Splinter Cell a very clear narrative has been carried from Double Agent right into Blacklist.

I liked the realistic aspects of the series and they've pissed them all away for the sake of gameplay no true fan of the series will appreciate since realism = slow. Fisher went from approaching things tactically to becoming a master of parkour, forgive my lack of enthusiasm for such shenanigans. If you really think it's dumb to complain that these new gameplay elements turn Sam Fisher into another generic action hero then I won't even bother trying to reason my view any further.

Sam has always said he didn't enjoy killing a man, but wouldn't ever hesitate to do so. Killing was more or less a last resort for him because of governmental restraints. He had a direct supervisor, now he's pretty much his own boss, so he's going to be far more off the cuff.

I agree with you on the demo though. What was displayed is not how i would play Splinter Cell. In past games id only kill the people id need to. But the devs have said we will be able to play it like the old games. More so than what was offered in Conviction.

Exactly what I meant when I said the stealth element, although there, feels like an afterthought. Oooh, multi-kills! Explosions! Breaking down doors! Air strikes!! ...Any new stealth stuff? No? Ok.

 

[Master Chief]

Oh, but I am happy whistling is back.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I watch the show he's on and he didn't quite sound like his usual self either, he was pushing the gruff.

Bond is a character that has been interpreted in so many ways that he's even been portrayed in different time periods. They're not even close to being the same thing. If you've been paying attention to Splinter Cell a very clear narrative has been carried from Double Agent right into Blacklist.

I liked the realistic aspects of the series and they've pissed them all away for the sake of gameplay no true fan of the series will appreciate since realism = slow. Fisher went from approaching things tactically to becoming a master of parkour, forgive my lack of enthusiasm for such shenanigans. If you really think it's dumb to complain that these new gameplay elements turn Sam Fisher into another generic action hero then I won't even bother trying to reason my view any further.



Exactly what I meant when I said the stealth element, although there, feels like an afterthought. Oooh, multi-kills! Explosions! Breaking down doors! Air strikes!! ...Any new stealth stuff? No? Ok.

They are exactly the same thing. They're both FICTIONAL characters, meaning creators are free to alter what we perceive to be their reality. And the narrative linking the games is thin at best. I agree its there, but barely. Also, how does realism = slow? Thats so f***ing stupid. Sam is a world class athlete(any Spec Ops soldier at his level would be). Theres nothing that says he couldn't do the stuff he's doing. And then theres this other thing, the fact that its a damn game. Sam is no more a generic action hero than he was when he first burst onto the scene.

The only thing that has changed, is the fact gamers are now more impatient than ever. They dont want to wait for 10 min to watch a guards patrol path. They want to kick the door down and shoot everyone in the damn room. Ubisoft is allowing them to do that if they so please. Guys like us, we'll still wait that 10 min to get that perfect kill.

 

[Master Chief]

They are exactly the same thing. They're both FICTIONAL characters, meaning creators are free to alter what we perceive to be their reality. And the narrative linking the games is thin at best. I agree its there, but barely. Also, how does realism = slow? Thats so f***ing stupid. Sam is a world class athlete(any Spec Ops soldier at his level would be). Theres nothing that says he couldn't do the stuff he's doing. And then theres this other thing, the fact that its a damn game. Sam is no more a generic action hero than he was when he first burst onto the scene.

The only thing that has changed, is the fact gamers are now more impatient than ever. They dont want to wait for 10 min to watch a guards patrol path. They want to kick the door down and shoot everyone in the damn room. Ubisoft is allowing them to do that if they so please. Guys like us, we'll still wait that 10 min to get that perfect kill.

Suuure, f**k continuity just coz it's fake!

Realism = slow... Yeah, thanks for agreeing with me, it is stupid. I see a lack of it in all the footage of Blacklist so far. I realize this is venturing into nit picky territory but in Splinter Cell you don't jump up a goddamn mountainside, you shoot a line up so you can scale it. But can't have that coz realism = slow and it gets in the way of the next firefight.

Anyhoo lol Sam was never an action hero, nevermind a one man army.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Suuure, f**k continuity just coz it's fake!

Realism = slow... Yeah, thanks for agreeing with me, it is stupid. I see a lack of it in all the footage of Blacklist so far. I realize this is venturing into nit picky territory but in Splinter Cell you don't jump up a goddamn mountainside, you shoot a line up so you can scale it. But can't have that coz realism = slow and it gets in the way of the next firefight.

Anyhoo lol Sam was never an action hero, nevermind a one man army.

Why does Sam have to move slow? He's in top physical shape. Dude is pretty much a ninja. I dont see why Sam couldn't scale a mountain either. Since you are so obsessed with slow, just climb the mountain slowly. Grab on to a ledge, wait, grab on to the next one, wait, etc. There ya go, slow as hell.

 

[zenith16]

oh boy, this thing's gotten away from what was intended. chief the way I see it when their doing the gun blazing thing, Sam has to make sure he get's them first and make who he's fighting is ether dead or knocked out and he still needs cover and to hide. which all means he him self can still die with ease. A one man army he's not. if and when they show him taking bullets like the terminator which we all know he has yet to have been shown to game play it's pointless to write him and this game off that way. let's all cool down. please.

 

[Master Chief]

Why does Sam have to move slow? He's in top physical shape. Dude is pretty much a ninja. I dont see why Sam couldn't scale a mountain either. Since you are so obsessed with slow, just climb the mountain slowly. Grab on to a ledge, wait, grab on to the next one, wait, etc. There ya go, slow as hell.

Could just be a mighty case of baby duck syndrome but whenever I see nonsense like that it pulls me out of the experience, especially when this character is already established in my mind. Y'know, the guy who used to creep around to make less noise so as not to be detected. The slowness is one of the things I appreciated about Splinter Cell, it presented a sense of immersion, and now I'm getting goofy bulls**t.

All I can hope for is that the director isn't talking s**t and the stealth is still relatively challenging. I'm not gonna hold my breath though, since Conviction was a cakewalk on realistic I don't see any indication that this go 'round will be any different.

oh boy, this thing's gotten away from what was intended. chief the way I see it when their doing the gun blazing thing, Sam has to make sure he get's them first and make who he's fighting is ether dead or knocked out and he still needs cover and to hide. which all means he him self can still die with ease. A one man army he's not. if and when they show him taking bullets like the terminator which we all know he has yet to have been shown to game play it's pointless to write him and this game off that way. let's all cool down. please.

We're just spitballin' about what the series used to be and what it is now. However, go watch the demo again and try and tell me he's not a one man army. The dude takes down a handful of soldiers single-handedly and proceeds to rain bombs on another squad of soldiers. C'mon!!

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Could just be a mighty case of baby duck syndrome but whenever I see nonsense like that it pulls me out of the experience, especially when this character is already established in my mind. Y'know, the guy who used to creep around to make less noise so as not to be detected. The slowness is one of the things I appreciated about Splinter Cell, it presented a sense of immersion, and now I'm getting goofy bulls**t.

All I can hope for is that the director isn't talking s**t and the stealth is still relatively challenging. I'm not gonna hold my breath though, since Conviction was a cakewalk on realistic I don't see any indication that this go 'round will be any different.

The only thing goofy, is the fact that an individual in the best possible shape one could be in, was moving around like a geriatric old man. Sam is quick man. He can do stuff the avg individual can't. Kinda like Tom Cruise.

We're just spitballin' about what the series used to be and what it is now. However, go watch the demo again and try and tell me he's not a one man army. The dude takes down a handful of soldiers single-handedly and proceeds to rain bombs on another squad of soldiers. C'mon!!

Right, because no military has ever used an air strike before.

Kidding aside, i completely agree, but that was just one way to do that level. I won't attack it that way. Im going in quiet. But i am using the hell out of that Jason Bourne style kill on the run s**t.

 

[zenith16]

We're just spitballin' about what the series used to be and what it is now. However, go watch the demo again and try and tell me he's not a one man army. The dude takes down a handful of soldiers single-handedly and proceeds to rain bombs on another squad of soldiers. C'mon!!

you mean the game play demo that was shown from g4/xplay and ATOS I saw it. there were still some stealth elements. yeah it was to apeel the action junky/ thrill seeker. but from what i payed attention to and the recent news I put up i'm not worried. there will be other game play video's. I'm just waiting for more info as always. it's not time to panic yet.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

you mean the game play demo that was shown from g4/xplay and ATOS I saw it. there were still some stealth elements. yeah it was to apeel the action junky. but from what i payed attention to and the recent news I put up i'm not worried. there will be other game play video's.

Thats the trend. Show off the action stuff, get the mainstream to bite, then show off the core gameplay for the old fans.

They did the same thing with Hitman, people whined(MC I'm looking right at you) then they showed off a level that was beat for beat, classic Hitman. The same pattern will repeat here. Ill bet a copy of this game, it will.

 

[Master Chief]

The only thing goofy, is the fact that an individual in the best possible shape one could be in, was moving around like a geriatric old man. Sam is quick man. He can do stuff the avg individual can't. Kinda like Tom Cruise.

Right, because no military has ever used an air strike before.

Nothin' goofy about a soldier not turning around when a dude is crouched and practically running right at him. Nothin' at all.

Splinter Cell: Bomb the f**k out of everyone coz you're the bawsss of a rogue organization.

you mean the game play demo that was shown from g4/xplay and ATOS I saw it. there were still some stealth elements. yeah it was to apeel the action junky/ thrill seeker. but from what i payed attention to and the recent news I put up i'm not worried. there will be other game play video's. I'm just waiting for more info as always. it's not time to panic yet.

From what I've seen it looks like more of Conviction... and now that Sam isn't being driven by his personal vendetta I have a problem with it. They are bringing back a lot of stealth features but eh, won't believe it 'til I see it in action.

Thats the trend. Show off the action stuff, get the mainstream to bite, then show off the core gameplay for the old fans.

They did the same thing with Hitman, people whined(MC I'm looking right at you) then they showed off a level that was beat for beat, classic Hitman. The same pattern will repeat here. Ill bet a copy of this game, it will.

Sweet, just checked out that demo.

I was always fine with the new gameplay elements because I had no desire to use them. I hate that they're there because f**k these people who need that stuff, but my biggest gripe with that game is with how they treated Bateson. And whoever's in charge of their marketing sucks.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Nothin' goofy about a soldier not turning around when a dude is crouched and practically running right at him. Nothin' at all.

wait, you mean how theres nothing goofy about a soldier not spotting 3 bright ass green lights staring at him right in the face as he approached a dark corner???

I was always fine with the new gameplay elements because I had no desire to use them. I hate that they're there because f**k these people who need that stuff, but my biggest gripe with that game is with how they treated Bateson. And whoever's in charge of their marketing sucks.

Their marketing team is fine. They've always been like that. The campaign for Blood Money was similar.

Im in agreement with the Bateson thing tho. Really hope some light gets shed on that eventually. I just wanna know what went down dammit.

 

[Master Chief]

wait, you mean how theres nothing goofy about a soldier not spotting 3 bright ass green lights staring at him right in the face as he approached a dark corner???

Their marketing team is fine. They've always been like that. The campaign for Blood Money was similar.

Im in agreement with the Bateson thing tho. Really hope some light gets shed on that eventually. I just wanna know what went down dammit.

I'll believe that those bright shining lights are IR before I'll believe every soldier in the future has severe hearing damage.

I don't remember seeing any trailers that were as ridiculous as that nun disguise trailer but eh, I get it. They're trying to rope in a demographic in the cheapest possible way. **** and explosions, can't go wrong.

I'd definitely like to hear if anything went down but it seems like they just gave him the cold shoulder. Pisses me off just thinking about it hahah.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I'll believe that those bright shining lights are IR before I'll believe every soldier in the future has severe hearing damage.

I don't remember seeing any trailers that were as ridiculous as that nun disguise trailer but eh, I get it. They're trying to rope in a demographic in the cheapest possible way. **** and explosions, can't go wrong.

I'd definitely like to hear if anything went down but it seems like they just gave him the cold shoulder. Pisses me off just thinking about it hahah.

Eh, lack of hearing vs lack of sight. Potato, potato.

Nah there weren't any trailers that outlandish, but the printed material for Blood Money was pretty tacky( to some, i had no problem with it). Women in lingerie for absolutely no reason at all. Thats just IOI. All of their games are overly sexualized. Their marketing reflects that.

I know this isn't the place for it, but i think he was canned by SE. He claimed he did voice work and even posted it on his professional page. He was then told to remove it. I think SE fired him over that. But even before that, SE was being shady. They made IOI hold auditions(in which they basically told Bateson he was a lock). Something deff went down. It wasn't a simple, we want to go in a different direction.