The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 6

[Orba]

Did Fox have any presence at NYCC?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Come on guys I want to talk about how much this movie wasn't at NYCC.

Well let's consider what Kinberg said:

"When we really step forward we want it to be with our best foot forward. Instead of rushing something together for the Con we’d rather really wait until we have that perfect first image, perfect first sequence and first scene to show people."

So he doesn't actually say they will appear anytime anywhere. He says they'll wait until they have something perfect. Which could be like saying: "We'll show something when pigs fly."

 

[Docker2.0]

Anyone think those leaks of Doom and the Thing was done on purpose by Fox to show that they are "trying" to remain close to the sourse material? This thing was shot in less than a month and nothing is still not ready.........it just doesn't make any sense. I think Fox felt like the leaked photos would get some fans hopes up but got nowhere near the positive response they were hoping for so now they probably won't release any teaser for this thing until after New Years. Anyone who thinks Fox is actually trying to make a good film is only fooling themselves. This is a straight rights grab, nothing more nothing less. It seems like even the cast hates doing this movie. Has anyone involved said anything positive at all? I know Teller said the fans hate him, Jordan said that they will see it anyway, Mara is all over the place but no word from Trank, the guys playing Doom or the Thing? Eh.

 

[Kanon]

Well let's consider what Kinberg said:

"When we really step forward we want it to be with our best foot forward. Instead of rushing something together for the Con we’d rather really wait until we have that perfect first image, perfect first sequence and first scene to show people."

So he doesn't actually say they will appear anytime anywhere. He says they'll wait until they have something perfect. Which could be like saying: "We'll show something when pigs fly."

How hard could it be to take a "perfect" shot of the cast, in a movie that already wrapped? Just a still of all 4 standing together

 

[Dark Raven]

How hard could it be to take a "perfect" shot of the cast, in a movie that already wrapped? Just a still of all 4 standing together

There is the problem of having Miles Teller in the shot which already makes it imperfect. And for anyone not wanting MBJ as Johnny either, that also makes it imperfect. It's not so much the difficulty of taking a "perfect" photo so much as there being a problem with the casting.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Anyone think those leaks of Doom and the Thing was done on purpose by Fox to show that they are "trying" to remain close to the sourse material?

I highly doubt it - even they can't be that dumb.

The Thing image leaked while Fox was presenting at Comic-con (and some pointed that that coincidental timing as evidence it was possibly planned), but if they planned for us to see the image, it would have made a lot more sense to flash a better image of the Thing quickly during their presentation.

If any of us had just seen a quick glimpse of that image and not had time to study it, I think we would have been pretty impressed. Everybody who had been at the presentation would be talking about how cool it was, and it might have been one of the top stories of the show.

As for the Doom image, how could anyone possibly think any fans would react positively to that? I'm convinced that can't be the finished look because I can't imagine anybody thinking that looks good in any way.

I just think that if they did intentionally leak them we would have seen something much more impressive than what we got. No matter how bad the film may be, there must be some really cool looking production sketches, models etc. that would impress fans if they wanted to.

 

[Casius--J]

You know after reading about the potential Civil War storyline the MCU may be taking and the rumour of Sony lending Spidey to the MCU part of me hopes the lack of images, news, trailers etc for this FF project and the fact that it's been pushed back how many times is because Fox has been negotiating with marvel to sell the rights back for the Civil War. Reed was Tony's right hand man with the whole registration act so it makes sense for him to be part of the movieverse.

But I guess this is just a pathetic fanboy's dreams....

 

[Docker2.0]

There is no question something going on behind the scenes with this film that we don't know about just yet. With the re-releasing of Star Wars, talk of Xmen merchandise rights going to Fox, Spidey being in the MCU(which I believe is true which is TASM3 is being pushed back, the Kirby estate..............you never know what is going to happen.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

You know after reading about the potential Civil War storyline the MCU may be taking and the rumour of Sony lending Spidey to the MCU part of me hopes the lack of images, news, trailers etc for this FF project and the fact that it's been pushed back how many times is because Fox has been negotiating with marvel to sell the rights back for the Civil War. Reed was Tony's right hand man with the whole registration act so it makes sense for him to be part of the movieverse.

But I guess this is just a pathetic fanboy's dreams....

There is no question something going on behind the scenes with this film that we don't know about just yet. With the re-releasing of Star Wars, talk of Xmen merchandise rights going to Fox, Spidey being in the MCU(which I believe is true which is TASM3 is being pushed back, the Kirby estate..............you never know what is going to happen.

I've gotten my hopes up too many times just to be disappointed to play that game again.

But if it provides some solace, by all means continue.

 

[babykhris]

There is no question something going on behind the scenes with this film that we don't know about just yet. With the re-releasing of Star Wars, talk of Xmen merchandise rights going to Fox, Spidey being in the MCU(which I believe is true which is TASM3 is being pushed back, the Kirby estate..............you never know what is going to happen.

Where has there been talk about X-Men merchandising rights going to FOX? I could see FOX selling them to Disney like SONY did not the other way around.

 

[Docker2.0]

Where has there been talk about X-Men merchandising rights going to FOX? I could see FOX selling them to Disney like SONY did not the other way around.

That rumor has been going around for a minute. We will see if any of those rumors come to fruition.

 

[Dasher10]

Where has there been talk about X-Men merchandising rights going to FOX? I could see FOX selling them to Disney like SONY did not the other way around.

That's probably the case. Marvel would never sell the merch rights to Fox when their goal is to get things back in house while Fox realizes that when the video game contract with Activision expires in 2017 they'll be dealing with Marvel directly. Plus, Fox wants a toy line to promote their films and since Hasbro has the rights to all Marvel toys but deals directly with Marvel, there's no way for Fox to legally produce a toy line.

It's the same deal with animated DVD rights. Marvel can air reruns of X-Men and FF cartoons but Fox gets a cut of the DVD sales. That's why there's no animated series.

Fox selling the merch rights back in return for Marvel agreeing to produce cartoons and toys is a smart move.

 

[starscream22]

Come on guys I want to talk about how much this movie wasn't at NYCC.

t:

How about that! Surely the 3 or 4 people remaining who still have faith in this reboot would have thrown a party if FOX would've revealed....."something". But other than a few interviews from the usual suspects, making the usual comments along with the same rumors about X-men T.V. shows and FF crossovers seeping through the net leading up to NYCC but nothing concrete yet again.


Meanwhile I am looking forward to Daredevil, Civil War and all the other news that was revealed the last few days.

 

[RAE072]

t:

How about that! Surely the 3 or 4 people remaining who still have faith in this reboot would have thrown a party if FOX would've revealed....."something". But other than a few interviews from the usual suspects, making the usual comments along with the same rumors about X-men T.V. shows and FF crossovers seeping through the net leading up to NYCC but nothing concrete yet again.


Meanwhile I am looking forward to Daredevil, Civil War and all the other news that was revealed the last few days.

Not a peep. Not. A. Peep.

Even the Daredevil netflix show revealed cool stuff. Like...a production still tease of the titular *****ing character. And that comes out, gasp, next year. Same time as this movie.

Amazing what you get with folks involved in a movie who give a crap.

 

[Dark Raven]

Not a peep. Not. A. Peep.

Even the Daredevil netflix show revealed cool stuff. Like...a production still tease of the titular *****ing character. And that comes out, gasp, next year. Same time as this movie.

Amazing what you get with folks involved in a movie who give a crap.

Wait until SDCC for a reveal. And if not, then wait until NYCC 2015. And if not, then SDCC 2016. You know the pattern.

 

[RAE072]

Wait until SDCC for a reveal. And if not, then wait until NYCC 2015. And if not, then SDCC 2016. You know the pattern.

All too painfully familiar.

 

[Mysteryman]

Well let's consider what Kinberg said:

"When we really step forward we want it to be with our best foot forward. Instead of rushing something together for the Con we’d rather really wait until we have that perfect first image, perfect first sequence and first scene to show people."

So he doesn't actually say they will appear anytime anywhere. He says they'll wait until they have something perfect. Which could be like saying: "We'll show something when pigs fly."

I would post an image of pigs flying on the net so fast...

 

[Mysteryman]

You know after reading about the potential Civil War storyline the MCU may be taking and the rumour of Sony lending Spidey to the MCU part of me hopes the lack of images, news, trailers etc for this FF project and the fact that it's been pushed back how many times is because Fox has been negotiating with marvel to sell the rights back for the Civil War. Reed was Tony's right hand man with the whole registration act so it makes sense for him to be part of the movieverse.

But I guess this is just a pathetic fanboy's dreams....

Unlikely, but, you have creative dreams .

 

[HAMMER]

That's probably the case. Marvel would never sell the merch rights to Fox when their goal is to get things back in house while Fox realizes that when the video game contract with Activision expires in 2017 they'll be dealing with Marvel directly. Plus, Fox wants a toy line to promote their films and since Hasbro has the rights to all Marvel toys but deals directly with Marvel, there's no way for Fox to legally produce a toy line.

It's the same deal with animated DVD rights. Marvel can air reruns of X-Men and FF cartoons but Fox gets a cut of the DVD sales. That's why there's no animated series.

Fox selling the merch rights back in return for Marvel agreeing to produce cartoons and toys is a smart move.

Not really, its not working out so well for Sony right now. They gave up all their Spidey merch rights so now they live or die by the box office. The foX-Men films seem to be on the upswing in the box office, so Fox doesn't need any extra promotion, and they're not going to willingly give Disney another revenue stream if they don't get anything for it.

Fox will just continue to bury its feet in the sand as long as the foX-men train keeps chugging along, they're big enough to play hardball with Disney and play keep away with the FF rights out of spite until it benefits them. Sony was (and still is) in pretty dire financial straights and gave up the farm to keep the Spidey rights when they gave back the merchandising rights. Now Sony is really behind the 8-ball and is why I think we'll be hearing about a new Marvel/Sony deal that puts Spidey back in the MCU.

 

[Dasher10]

Not really, its not working out so well for Sony right now. They gave up all their Spidey merch rights so now they live or die by the box office. The foX-Men films seem to be on the upswing in the box office, so Fox doesn't need any extra promotion, and they're not going to willingly give Disney another revenue stream if they don't get anything for it.

Fox will just continue to bury its feet in the sand as long as the foX-men train keeps chugging along, they're big enough to play hardball with Disney and play keep away with the FF rights out of spite until it benefits them. Sony was (and still is) in pretty dire financial straights and gave up the farm to keep the Spidey rights when they gave back the merchandising rights. Now Sony is really behind the 8-ball and is why I think we'll be hearing about a new Marvel/Sony deal that puts Spidey back in the MCU.

Unless the new FF movie sucks. Then Fox will have no incentive to hold onto the rights.

 

[fixxxer]

Unless the new FF movie sucks. Then Fox will have no incentive to hold onto the rights.

Whether it sucks or not, I don't think it's even possible to sustain a loss while doing a FF movie off of this budget. I mean, Fox's entire marketing push could be just a Marvel logo, and the entire movie could consist of (figurative) faeces smeared across the screen, and it'd still do $100 mill WW. Considering this will (probably) be an actual movie, I don't see it doing less than $200 mill WW. Which would more than cover Fox's "expenditure". Unfortunately, unless Disney is willing to give up something tangible, Fox will keep the FF rights forever, repeating this BLEEPing soul crushing cycle every seven or so years.

 

[Dark Raven]

I suppose it's in Fox's contract that they can use the Marvel logo as well? Or could that be stripped from the movie?

 

[fixxxer]

^

Not sure if that would even be Marvel's call though. Considering how desperate Marvel was for publicity when they sold off all their characters' rights, they might not even have accounted for this particular disgraceful clusterBLEEP of a scenario.

 

[Orba]

Hard to say, it will probably be down to the contracts. However with actors, directors, writers etc legally the the studio can't not give the person credit they are legally entitled to, however the person can demand that their name is removed. The classic example of that is "Alan Smithee".

So the question is if that can be applied here. As I understand it Marvel get a Producer's credit in all the films, now if the use of the Marvel logo is a part of that producers credit then it might be possible for them to demand their credit be removed, taking the use of the Marvel logo with it.

But its all down to whatever is in the contract, and that is something we are never likely to get a look at. The best we can go is derive theories on the boundaries of what it allows based on what we see happening with the films.

 

[starscream22]

I suppose it's in Fox's contract that they can use the Marvel logo as well? Or could that be stripped from the movie?

I don't' think they should be able to use the Marvel logo to be honest. But knowing FOX, they'll just indirectly throw the race card at the issue as if MBJ would be the only reason for not backing this reboot.