The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 1

[DACrowe]

What's your score for MoS? And what's your current score for this?

I will add that I give Man of Steel a 6/10. A lot of great ideas, a pretty perfect cast (even if Cavill is limited in his range, I buy him as Kal-El quite well most of the time), a wonderful score by Hans Zimmer, a great introduction to Krypton, the best Lois Lane ever.... and a terrible end battle that lasts an hour and drains the movie of all life and entertainment value.

A mixed bag.

Batman v Superman is a 4/10, maybe even a 3/10. It is a mess. It is never as entertaining as the Krypton scenes or Superman's big reveal to the military and Zod in Man of Steel. It also makes a lot less sense, even if Batman and Wonder Woman look good and are played well.

Another way to say this is that after Man of Steel, I still looked forward to the next one and wanted to see if Snyder could salvage that initial potential. Now, I dread what his Justice League movie will be like.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I wonder what all the arrogant people people who dismissed Nolan's Batman as a butchering of the source material and how Snyder was gonna grace us with the most comic accurate batman have to say now?

 

[The Shape]

I was always a skeptic, was getting TASM2 vibes off everything, saw the RT and participated in the fallout like everyone here, and walked in expecting to hate it... But it's just so big, weird, interesting at times genuinely emotional and-- of course-- spectacularly bombastic that... I loved it! I walked out with a huge grin on my face, smiling ear-to-ear. And it was from the opening few minutes I knew "Holy crap, I think I may love this?!"

Pretty much how I felt.

 

[titansupes]

I wonder what all the arrogant people people who dismissed Nolan's Batman as a butchering of the source material and how Snyder was gonna grace us with the most comic accurate batman have to say now?

It won't matter, because puzzle suit/growl voice/Bruce retired/whatever nonsense.

(Although no, already in the last 24-48 hours since **** hit the fan, there's been a sudden and hilarious shift back to "Remember how great Nolan was?!" from many folks).

 

[Shikamaru]

I wonder what all the arrogant people people who dismissed Nolan's Batman as a butchering of the source material and how Snyder was gonna grace us with the most comic accurate batman have to say now?

I made the point from day one that Nolan's Batman would be closer to what your average fan considers "comic book Batman", but it going unnoticed due to Snyder's version appearing visually closer. Nothing yet suggests that still won't be the case.

 

[titansupes]

Pretty much how I felt.

I'm trying to figure out what exactly's going on. For you it was a bit different, because you saw it pre-RT hit. Maybe my expectations were just truly rock bottom, so had nowhere to go but up? Maybe I'm just in a weird, nihilistic mood, because I viewed Watchmen for the third time ever a few weeks ago, and I enjoyed it for the first friggin' time. Or, maybe it's just a better movie than they're saying.

Who knows?

 

[The Shape]

I'm trying to figure out what exactly's going on. For you it was a bit different, because you saw it pre-RT hit. Maybe my expectations were just truly rock bottom, so had nowhere to go but up? Maybe I'm just in a weird, nihilistic mood, because I viewed Watchmen for the third time ever a few weeks ago, and I enjoyed it for the first friggin' time. Or, maybe it's just a better movie than they're saying.

Who knows?

Yeah, maybe it's just not the piece of irredeemable trash that everyone has already decided it is before seeing it, and there are a lot of things to enjoy about the film even if it might not be that strong overall.

Who knows?

 

[I Am The Knight]

What a reaction, titansupes. I am very curious. Can't wait to see it. Some of the bats*** crazy stuff I have read regarding this movie, man I think ultimately I will enjoy it in a way.

 

[The Joker]

There's still a strong negative response from people who have seen it. Just been checking out the reviews in the BvsS forum, Youtube, and Facebook. Worse than MOS.

I also think the bad critical reception is going to hurt word of mouth for the movie as the RT score is currently trending on Twitter and FB. Speaking of which it's now down to 33%. That is just embarrassing.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I wanna see Grant Morrison's reaction to this movie. I consider him to be the greatest Batman and Superman writer at DC. I wonder what he would think of these versions of the characters.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Or Mark Waid's I'm sure he will have something to say after being attacked by fans for his opinions on MOS.

 

[BatLobster]

I wanna see Grant Morrison's reaction to this movie. I consider him to be the greatest Batman and Superman writer at DC. I wonder what he would think of these versions of the characters.

Terrio name dropped Morrison as a big influence when researching for BvS and Justice League, so that'll definitely be interesting.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Too complicated a question just to give ratings for me.

Went in thinking it was going to be the best Superman movie ever, thought the critics were just being biased or some crap--

I consider myself mixed on MoS. First viewing, hated it and felt numb and deflated afterwards. Second viewing (exactly two weeks later) I had a good time and thought "Oh, not THAT bad". Third time (bluray) and subsequent viewings I just settled into this profound indifference toward it-- A bunch of good elements, but no execution. The script, the pacing/structure and direction etc. The usual stuff.

It's a 5/10, give or take half a point or so depending on the day.

This time? Wasn't looking forward to it, in spite of loving the characters and ONE of the trailers (and I even had concerns then). Thought the critics were absolutely right and Snyder screwed the pooch...

Walked out loving it in spite of a whole bunch of ****. I can't rate it yet, sorry.

I hope to see how you score it after repeated viewings.

I will add that I give Man of Steel a 6/10. A lot of great ideas, a pretty perfect cast (even if Cavill is limited in his range, I buy him as Kal-El quite well most of the time), a wonderful score by Hans Zimmer, a great introduction to Krypton, the best Lois Lane ever.... and a terrible end battle that lasts an hour and drains the movie of all life and entertainment value.

A mixed bag.

Batman v Superman is a 4/10, maybe even a 3/10. It is a mess. It is never as entertaining as the Krypton scenes or Superman's big reveal to the military and Zod in Man of Steel. It also makes a lot less sense, even if Batman and Wonder Woman look good and are played well.

Another way to say this is that after Man of Steel, I still looked forward to the next one and wanted to see if Snyder could salvage that initial potential. Now, I dread what his Justice League movie will be like.

And I had confidence that Ben Affleck and Chris Terrio would actually salvage the story.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Terrio name dropped Morrison as a big influence when researching for BvS and Justice League, so that'll definitely be interesting.

I guess he was an influence to avoid.

 

[BatLobster]

[YT]9T40qJdj2H0[/YT]

Love it!

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Saw this in the BvS forums. Snyder's rationale for making Batman [BLACKOUT]Punisher lite[/BLACKOUT].

Spoiler

. I tried to do it in a technical way. There’s a great YouTube video that shows all the kills in the Christopher Nolan movies even though we would perceive them as movies where he doesn’t kill anyone. I think there’s 42 potential kills that Batman does! Also, it goes back and includes even the Tim Burton Batman movies where this reputation as a guy that doesn’t kill comes from.

So, I tried to do it by proxy. Shoot the car they’re in, the car blows up or the grenade would go off in the guy’s hand, or when he shoots the tank and the guy pretty much lights the tank [himself]. I perceive it as him not killing directly, but if the bad guy’s are associated with a thing that happens to blow up, he would say that that’s not really my problem.

A little more like manslaughter than murder, although I would say that in the Frank Miller comic book that I reference, he kills all the time. There’s a scene from the graphic novel where he busts through a wall, takes the guy’s machine gun…I took that little vignette from a scene in The Dark Knight Returns, and at the end of that, he shoots the guy right between the eyes with the machine gun. One shot. Of course, I went to the gas tank, and all of the guys I work with were like, ‘You’ve gotta shoot him in the head’ because they’re all comic book dorks, and I was like, ‘I’m not gonna be the guy that does that!’

There was no source given so maybe this is a joke. A parody. But the fact that it sounds like it can be legit says it all really.

 

[The Batman]

*Zack Snyder walks into a WB Boardroom packed with executives and producers*

Zack Snyder: Hey Guys! Whats--

John Daggett: I'd like to point out that we have a non-WB employee here. Highly irregular, even if he just directed our Tentpole.

Fredericks: Zack Snyder built the DCEU--

Board Member: --And he himself has run it--

Daggett: Into the ground, sir. Anybody disagree? Check the RT critic scores this morning. Gambling on divisive directors and their polarizing films didn't just lose us a chance to beat Marvel, it's lost us all a lot of CBM credibility, and he has to go.

Kevin Tsujihara: I'm afraid he has a point, Mr. Snyder.

Zack Snyder: .....

*Zack gets up and leaves the room*

Daggett: Well, back to business.

 

[Shikamaru]

Hazifbat brought up a great point in the BvS boards. It's ironic how someone like Nolan, who originally knew nothing of the character, can give fans a more beloved version than a hardcore comic book fan like Snyder. Even if we ignore storytelling and just focus on characterization, this still applies (then again, Snyder seems to be more of a Frank Miller fan).

Kinda flips people's perceptions on their heads.

 

[Slade W]

I think that he was a fan of the 60s show. I also think I read before that he was a fan of some of the comics like The Long Halloween when he was younger.

 

[The Joker]

*Zack Snyder walks into a WB Boardroom packed with executives and producers*

Zack Snyder: Hey Guys! Whats--

John Daggett: I'd like to point out that we have a non-WB employee here. Highly irregular, even if he just directed our Tentpole.

Fredericks: Zack Snyder built the DCEU--

Board Member: --And he himself has run it--

Daggett: Into the ground, sir. Anybody disagree? Check the RT critic scores this morning. Gambling on divisive directors and their polarizing films didn't just lose us a chance to beat Marvel, it's lost us all a lot of CBM credibility, and he has to go.

Kevin Tsujihara: I'm afraid he has a point, Mr. Snyder.

Zack Snyder: .....

*Zack gets up and leaves the room*

Daggett: Well, back to business.

And they say Batman doesn't have a sense of humor

I think that he was a fan of the 60s show. I also think I read before that he was a fan of some of the comics like The Long Halloween when he was younger.

He's definitely a fan of the 60's show. But he wasn't a reader of the comics. Goyer was his source of help on that score initially. But Nolan did research big stories like TLH, Year One, and The Killing Joke. He even wrote an intro to the absolute edition of TLH, saying how much he loved it and what a big influence it was on his movies.

 

[The Batman]

^ By the way no one intially acknowledged that post, I thought it bombed, lol.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Can we stop calling Snyder a hardcore comic fan? It's clear the guy read Watchmen, TDKR and a few other Miller comics and now thinks he is an expert.

He didn't even read them well. He thinks Batman killed in TDKR or something.

 

[The Joker]

Anyone notice in the review thread for BvsS it has like 69 votes in the poll, but not even half that number of responses from people who have seen it.

Me thinks people are pulling the same crap they did on IMDb and RT. Voting without seeing it.

^ By the way no one intially acknowledged that post, I thought it bombed, lol.

Can we stop calling Snyder a hardcore comic fan? It's clear the guy read Watchmen, TDKR and a few other Miller comics and now thinks he is an expert.

He didn't even read them well. He thinks Batman killed in TDKR or something.

Why would he think Batman killed in TDKR? He even uses rubber bullets in his Bat tank.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Because he probably didn't even read it. Someone suggested in the BvS forums that he only skimmed through the comics, looking at the pictures.

Who can disbelieve him/her?

 

[Slade W]

And they say Batman doesn't have a sense of humor



He's definitely a fan of the 60's show. But he wasn't a reader of the comics. Goyer was his source of help on that score initially. But Nolan did research big stories like TLH, Year One, and The Killing Joke. He even wrote an intro to the absolute edition of TLH, saying how much he loved it and what a big influence it was on his movies.

Thanks. I do remember that he wrote an intro for TLH and that must have been what made me think that he was a fan of it when he was younger (but it has been a while since I read it, so I forget if he mentioned how old he was when he read it). Again, working on memory here, but I think I remember reading that Chris and his brother were fans of Batman when they were younger. If that was the case, it must have been just of the 60s show.

^ By the way no one intially acknowledged that post, I thought it bombed, lol.

If it did bomb, it was only with critics who didn't get it, and with people who don't expect Batman to be funny. We all know Goyer wrote that joke anyway.