The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 2

[The Shape]

Congrats, Aziz.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Ok don't keep us in suspense, what movie is it you compare it to?

Mortal Kombat Annihilation.

Congrats, Aziz.

Thanks, I hope.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

BvS is poised to drop 70% in the US, 87% in China, and 77% in the UK.

It seems only Mexico is smart enough to get this film.

 

[The Joker]

Mortal Kombat Annihilation.

Owtch!

BvS is poised to drop 70% in the US, 87% in China, and 77% in the UK.

It seems only Mexico is smart enough to get this film.

Reading the box office thread for BvS is like watching a sinking ship. It's shocking how fast it's dropping. Especially with no competition in theaters. Embarrassing.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

67% in Australia.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Owtch!

"Destroy All Expectations"
They both lived up to it.
BvS was harder to take.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

 

[Spider-Aziz]

That is the Hype's current favorite meme, almost every place I go has it.

 

[Brother Jack]

In the right hands I think that could've been a nice moment. It's meant to be the turning point where Batman realizes Superman is a man not unlike him instead of an unknowable alien. But it's botched so completely in the execution. For one thing, Batman was shown to be so murderous before and after that instance that it's hard to buy he would hesitate to finish Clark right then.

 

[Shikamaru]

I'm curious to see if Batman's characterization is similar going forward. I suspect him killing was more of a Snyder thing than a WB/DCEU thing overall.

 

[The Joker]

I suspect many of the bad decisions were Snyder's doing. We know two of the most controversial things he did he was advised against by Nolan (killing Zod/death of Superman), but he went ahead and did them anyway.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Killing Zod was a decision I liked, I still think it's a good decision for the story he went with.
Death of Superman was a bad decision since the get go, at least for this film, he should have heeded Nolan's advice on that one.

 

[Ryan]

The many issues that bothered me about mos, seem so trivial in comparison to my thoughts on bvs.

 

[shauner111]

Killing Zod was a good idea. Execution was OK. Zod could have moved his eyes to the right while in the headlock and burnt that family to a crisp. But I guess we need drama.

 

[Penguin]

The killing of Superman was probably the worst idea; it wasn’t beneficial in the least bit. Then again, expecting more from Snyder is a pipe dream.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Forget Superman, they fricking killed Clark Kent. I guess Snyder didn't want to deal with half of Superman's character so he killed him (like Jimmy).

 

[Shikamaru]

Found this on the internet.

Seriously, Snyder? You seriously don't know?

Everybody knows you don't make your hero go full ***hole.

Check it out. Wolverine, X-Men. Looks like an ***hole, acts like an ***hole. Not an ***hole. Helps mutant fight their cause. Burnt out, sure. Not an ***hole. You know the Punisher, Frank Castle? Bad yes, an ***hole maybe. Guns on his legs. But he found common ground with Daredevil and wants to end organized crime? That ain't an ***hole! He was a goddamn war hero. You know any ***hole war heroes?

You made Batman go full ***hole, Snyder.

Never make your hero go full ***hole. Don't believe me? Ask George Lucas, Star Wars, early 2000's? Made Anakin go full ***hole, went home with no fanbase.

 

[The Joker]

Found this on the internet.

Seriously, Snyder? You seriously don't know?

Everybody knows you don't make your hero go full ***hole.

Check it out. Wolverine, X-Men. Looks like an ***hole, acts like an ***hole. Not an ***hole. Helps mutant fight their cause. Burnt out, sure. Not an ***hole. You know the Punisher, Frank Castle? Bad yes, an ***hole maybe. Guns on his legs. But he found common ground with Daredevil and wants to end organized crime? That ain't an ***hole! He was a goddamn war hero. You know any ***hole war heroes?

You made Batman go full ***hole, Snyder.

Never make your hero go full ***hole. Don't believe me? Ask George Lucas, Star Wars, early 2000's? Made Anakin go full ***hole, went home with no fanbase.

Haha t:

It's true, Batfleck was the most extreme example of 'Batdick', along with the All Star version.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Found this on the internet.

Seriously, Snyder? You seriously don't know?

Everybody knows you don't make your hero go full ***hole.

Check it out. Wolverine, X-Men. Looks like an ***hole, acts like an ***hole. Not an ***hole. Helps mutant fight their cause. Burnt out, sure. Not an ***hole. You know the Punisher, Frank Castle? Bad yes, an ***hole maybe. Guns on his legs. But he found common ground with Daredevil and wants to end organized crime? That ain't an ***hole! He was a goddamn war hero. You know any ***hole war heroes?

You made Batman go full ***hole, Snyder.

Never make your hero go full ***hole. Don't believe me? Ask George Lucas, Star Wars, early 2000's? Made Anakin go full ***hole, went home with no fanbase.

It sounds funny, but it is true. And I think it is the real problem when people complain about these films being too grim and joyless. The Dark Knight is dark. Daredevil is dark. Jessica Jones is dark. But at their core, those are all about a hero that we want to cheer for. It may be a downer setting and lots of bad things may happen and they may be very cynical, but they are all ultimately characters with heroic qualities that are primarily motivated by wanting to help people and make the world a better place.

Now look at the three big CBM failures over the last three years: Batman vs. Superman, The Amazing Spider-Man 2, and Fant4stic. What do all three of those films have in common? Their protagonists are all unlikable, selfish pricks. Audiences need a main character they can get behind.

 

[Man in the Suit]

Kind of amazing how we went from the Batman in TDKR who still sees the good in Selina Kyle and inspires others like Robin John Blake. To BVS Bats who gives paranoid Dick Cheney inspired speeches and tries to kill Superman because he doesn't know anything about him or if he can be trusted.

What a hero.

(And I even liked BvS. But... damn!)

And there's a misconception with people defending BvS saying the Nolan trilogy is also dark. Those movies are very emotional, operatic, epic, and gritty. Yes, dark stuff happened, but those 2 of those movies ending with crowd-cheering moments. Even TDK ended on huge note with those Zimmer drums pounding while Gordon monologues over Batman driving off into the night. That's why those movies made $2 billion and are loved.

 

[DACrowe]

Killing Zod was a decision I liked, I still think it's a good decision for the story he went with.
Death of Superman was a bad decision since the get go, at least for this film, he should have heeded Nolan's advice on that one.

Except the whole pretense that fans on the internet used to justify his choice in killing Zod--that only by taking a life would he learn the value of never doing it again--is jettisoned immediately since in his first scene in BvS, Superman likely kills that terrorist warlord. And later, he almost kills Lex Luthor, which makes his choice of saving his life from Doomsday later even more baffling.

The point is that if there was some lesson for Superman to learn from the death of Zod, it was muted and lost in the sequel, which continued with Clark being a murderous, selfish jerk that could never see past his own doorway.

 

[DACrowe]

Mortal Kombat Annihilation.

Thanks, I hope.

Heh, it actually reminds me of the Schumacher era of Batman movies. Pretty to look at but no substance and boring to watch.

 

[The Joker]

Heh, it actually reminds me of the Schumacher era of Batman movies. Pretty to look at but no substance and boring to watch.

That's the Snyder movies in a nutshell right there.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

that only by taking a life would he learn the value of never doing it again

That was a hilarious justification anyways. I reckon most of us haven't taken a life, and we know it's wrong. I guess the paragon of altruism Superman simply has to snap a neck to know what most of us common folks know by heart.

 

[Brother Jack]

And there's a misconception with people defending BvS saying the Nolan trilogy is also dark. Those movies are very emotional, operatic, epic, and gritty. Yes, dark stuff happened, but those 2 of those movies ending with crowd-cheering moments. Even TDK ended on huge note with those Zimmer drums pounding while Gordon monologues over Batman driving off into the night. That's why those movies made $2 billion and are loved.

They are dark. It's ultimately an optimistic story but it does go to some very dark places. Batman essentially fails in Knight and from there into Rises Bruce loses almost everything, even his ability to be Batman. It really took its hero through the ringer, allowing him to be brought to his weakest, weaker than any other superhero I've seen on film. It challenges its hero. Snyder has tried to do that but he doesn't have the depth or sophistication of storytelling to do it as well as Nolan did.